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  1. #181
    The "dispelled Haunt rewards a shard" was supposed to help with the throttling, but honestly I can't really remember seeing anyone actually dispelling a Haunt (disclaimer, I don't do arena, so maybe people do there), but like I said, overall I think the set bonus change puts Aff in a -worse- spot because of the removal of the Unending Resolve bonus.

    I can do more damage when left alone? Super. Except every bg I'm pretty much a DK and rogue magnet.

  2. #182
    Aff isn't going to cast around melee...just not going to happen w' interupts having no DR ever, stun DR, silence DR, and a plethora of instant CC's that don't fall into the previous category. The reason the haunt dispel helps is that you can set up a kill w' full darksoul dots, haunt, and a peel so you can channel and any healer can stop it cold via /dispel. 8 sec CD instant > all aff's pressure even with optimal setup. Aff has major mechanics issues in pvp...it doesn't have demo's mobility or mitigation, doesn't have destro's burst or self healing, and can be shut down the easiest since its a single spell school spec that relies on hardcast fears and channeling with 100% of its pressure stoppable every 8 sec via dispel.

    Unholy will have dots that tick what...5x or 10x as hard that it can spread instantly. It also has a stronger pet than demo and single target pressure that works when focused. There is no way SB:SS is logic for why aff can't have dots that hurt similarly in pvp (eg pvp coef buff) when pestilence/outbreak/etc all do it aoe and with far less of a resource throttle.

    PVP vs PVE seems to be the devs logic for why aff can't be helped but that just shows lack of imagination or motivation. If you did the following nothing would touch pve yet pvp would actually function:

    1. Treat MG, DS, and DL like hunter filler shots...eg uninteruptable (can still silence/stun/etc)
    2. Glyph that buffs pvp power scaling or dot dmg vs players BUT cuts the CD/power of darksoul 50% (since the delta between unsupported dots and buffe ones is so huge) such that darksoul is 15% stat gain on 60 sec cd.
    3. UA dispels also grant a shard
    4. Increased shard/nightfall chance vs player targets
    5. Drain life ignores battle fatigue and mortal strike effects.

    That would do worlds to fix aff in pvp and not touch pve in the slightest. Even the darksoul change is playstyle only and would really be a pve nerf since aff likes to roll max buffed dots, demo CD stacks etc.

  3. #183
    I would even go so far as to suggest putting interrupt/silence immunity on a separate ability from damage reduction and on a much shorter cd than Unending Resolve.

  4. #184
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    1. Treat MG, DS, and DL like hunter filler shots...eg uninteruptable (can still silence/stun/etc)
    I've said it before and I'm not going to change my opinion about it, but this is completely overpowered. MG ( + extra dot ticks) make up for roughly 60% of our dps, making it uninterruptable would be rather overpowered. The next thing we are seeing is arcane mages with uninterruptable arcane blast. >.>

    2. Glyph that buffs pvp power scaling or dot dmg vs players BUT cuts the CD/power of darksoul 50% (since the delta between unsupported dots and buffe ones is so huge) such that darksoul is 15% stat gain on 60 sec cd.
    While Dark Soul is a problematic cooldown for all 3 the speces, you can't fix all the damage issues with just one glyph, there are far to many things that have to be changed in order to make Affliction viable damage wise. Heck, the whole idea of having a glyph do all these changes is a stupid idea as the glyph will be required for PvP, thus we have to give up a glyph slot.

    3. UA dispels also grant a shard
    As long as SB:SS exists with no cooldown, no. What would be the point of dispelling your dots if you can instantly reapply them, might as well make them undispellable then and have UA deal damage and silence whenever someone tries to dispel it. :/

    4. Increased shard/nightfall chance vs player targets
    That would help a little, but might be problematic with SB:SS.

    5. Drain life ignores battle fatigue and mortal strike effects.
    While I'd wish pure dps weren't affected by battle fatigue, a change like this would create a massive shitstorm. While DL really ain't the best self healing, if you make it unaffected by MS and BF, everyone is going to demand a self heal unaffected by BF and MS. Considering you want DL to be uninterruptable as well, I have no doubt people will complain about it.

  5. #185
    Honestly, at this point I don't see warlocks climbing out of the hole we're in til next xpac.
    For affliction in particular they would need to:

    -Buff DoT damage.

    -Nerf Malefic Grasp damage from DoTs to 25% or even lower.

    -I would then change Haunt to a short burst CD with a small percentage based heal when it comes back, like it used to.

    -Shards would then need to be reworked as well. I realize they moved Haunt to consuming one to make us feel like our shards were important. Honestly, it's just been annoying with how much I require the use of shards while there being no real reliable way to replenish them. Perhaps move shards to being JUST small ways to burst or add a convience to some abilities. Things such as making UA do 60% of it's total damage upfront should we empower it. I remember they were going to do this at one point. Things like this would be the way I'd go with the shard system.

    -Then, for all warlock specs I would move our mana resource system to being a Fel Energy system. Similar to how Chaotic Energy works for destro now. Life Tap I feel a such a outdated mechanic. Most casters never need to worry about running oom, and should they run oom it's because they were spamming heals on a partner or themselves. But even after running oom it's not hard for them to just regen back up without having to give 15% HP to do it. This is just more convenience than anything. The game seems to be shifting this way, just getting warlocks to that point with this.

    -Finally, I believe warlocks should shift some of the active mitigation and healing to passives. It's largely been a big point of warlocks, not having it this xpac feels....off.

  6. #186
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalkiden View Post
    -Then, for all warlock specs I would move our mana resource system to being a Fel Energy system. Similar to how Chaotic Energy works for destro now. Life Tap I feel a such a outdated mechanic. Most casters never need to worry about running oom, and should they run oom it's because they were spamming heals on a partner or themselves. But even after running oom it's not hard for them to just regen back up without having to give 15% HP to do it. This is just more convenience than anything. The game seems to be shifting this way, just getting warlocks to that point with this.

    To be fair, while Destro has big mana regen, it has big mana costs too, that's why they get the big regen. There's an argument that Affli and Demo are designed to require Life Tapping, but frankly I dont think the amount they life tap should be lowered. Personally, I'd just prefer if they added a new passive to Affli and Demonology like: "Dark Pleasure - Affli: Your Unstable Affliction ticks have an X% chance to restore Y% mana. Demonology: Your Touch of Chaos and Soul Fire while metamorphosed restore Z% mana" so Affli has the Spriest style, while Demonolgy in a sense can trade Fury for mana in a pinch (though in reality it'll happen passive enough to not worry about it), with life tapping reserved for mana intensive peroids.

  7. #187
    i say get rid of MG and give us back instant cast shadow bolts

  8. #188
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Ultima View Post
    To be fair, while Destro has big mana regen, it has big mana costs too, that's why they get the big regen. There's an argument that Affli and Demo are designed to require Life Tapping, but frankly I dont think the amount they life tap should be lowered. Personally, I'd just prefer if they added a new passive to Affli and Demonology like: "Dark Pleasure - Affli: Your Unstable Affliction ticks have an X% chance to restore Y% mana. Demonology: Your Touch of Chaos and Soul Fire while metamorphosed restore Z% mana" so Affli has the Spriest style, while Demonolgy in a sense can trade Fury for mana in a pinch (though in reality it'll happen passive enough to not worry about it), with life tapping reserved for mana intensive peroids.
    If I were the warlock developer, I'd just completely get rid of Mana for all 3 speces, it just doesn't fit for the Warlock Class anymore.

    Destruction would work perfectly with Fel Energy, Demonology can work with just Demonic Fury and for Affliction the whole Soul Shard thing can be improved, or even something as say Life Force. If we can use our own Life to cast things, can't we just steal the Life Force of our targets and use that instead? (I'm obviously not inspired by the Guild Wars necromancer)

  9. #189
    Stood in the Fire JV Chequer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    If I were the warlock developer, I'd just completely get rid of Mana for all 3 speces, it just doesn't fit for the Warlock Class anymore.

    Destruction would work perfectly with Fel Energy, Demonology can work with just Demonic Fury and for Affliction the whole Soul Shard thing can be improved, or even something as say Life Force. If we can use our own Life to cast things, can't we just steal the Life Force of our targets and use that instead? (I'm obviously not inspired by the Guild Wars necromancer)

    You should be a developer, great ideas.

  10. #190
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    If I were the warlock developer, I'd just completely get rid of Mana for all 3 speces, it just doesn't fit for the Warlock Class anymore.

    Destruction would work perfectly with Fel Energy, Demonology can work with just Demonic Fury and for Affliction the whole Soul Shard thing can be improved, or even something as say Life Force. If we can use our own Life to cast things, can't we just steal the Life Force of our targets and use that instead? (I'm obviously not inspired by the Guild Wars necromancer)
    I get where you're coming from, and to some extent I agree, but I'd argue what class does it fit anymore? Most, if not all, DPS classes that use mana use a completely seperate resource. Only mages are pure-mana, arcane at least makes thematic and mechanical sense, and you can argue that Fire and Frost use Heating Up! and Fingers of Frost respectively as secondary proto-resources (not even counting Arcane Charges). At least you can use mana to limit things like Emancipate, or for warlocks, Demon summoning and non-MC Soul Fire without breaking a "normal" rotation (again, I think Soul Fire costs WAAAY too much during Decimation).

    I don't quite understand how Demo could work on Fel Energy without using another resource to build it. Unless you'd make the core rotation and everything else costless, but even then how would Soul Fire work? Unless it's a complete overhaul, which is fair enough, but I personally like the "build and spend" Demonic Fury model. As for Affliction, wouldn't mind the resource being replaced. But, and here's the ticker, how would stealing life energy work when we're fighting the enivitable UNDEAD ROBOT SHARK WITH LASERS

  11. #191
    The Patient Taiknee's Avatar
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    It's a buff to Fire and Brimstone. Now you no longer have to keep re-casting it to AoE. And the change to Siphon Life is a nice PvP buff.

  12. #192
    idd, which will be incredibly nice for when ou aoe, ive complained plenty about how clunky it feels when you use FnB, i for one can hardly wait for it.

  13. #193
    I completely agree on how outdated lifetap feels. I wouldnt mind it if the spell was off gcd for now and completely removed later. It just feels clunky. Always had ;/
    Destruction resources system feels very nice. Mana seems like energy. it reminds me a bit of SWtoR and i really loved how resources are designed in that game.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    If I were the warlock developer, I'd just completely get rid of Mana for all 3 speces, it just doesn't fit for the Warlock Class anymore.

    Destruction would work perfectly with Fel Energy, Demonology can work with just Demonic Fury and for Affliction the whole Soul Shard thing can be improved, or even something as say Life Force. If we can use our own Life to cast things, can't we just steal the Life Force of our targets and use that instead? (I'm obviously not inspired by the Guild Wars necromancer)
    Ya, agree completely it's funny to have mana as something to manage as a resource then have a secondary resource to consider. Seems kinda counter productive..

    In terms of the direction things are going for 5.3 I don't think much more is gonna be done in the time frame they have, I don't understand why they wouldn't at least do something like make MG be a different school of magic. I suppose that wouldn't really fit the ideology of the spec (malefic grasp as say a fire spell would sound awkward), but seriously if you get locked out of your shadow tree what can you do..

    As much as I was with a lot of other warlocks in wanting to see other specs have pvp representation I really miss wrath affliction pvp, although I do enjoy the changes they made to affliction for pve.
    Last edited by Gohzerlock; 2013-04-19 at 06:08 AM.

  15. #195
    Stood in the Fire Rife's Avatar
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    I'd make two changes for affliction:
    1. Critical hits no longer do 150% damage. An extra 50% damaging attack is procced instead.
    2. Remove Nightfall. New MG mechanic akin to DS where every 4 ticks of MG generates one soul shard.

    Done.

    Those changes would mean:
    - Haunt could be nerfed but fine tuned to the point where affliction single target damage is balanced around good haunt uptime and management.
    - Dots would be buffed fairly considerably to make up for Haunt nerf which would help afflic PvP; perhaps enough for afflic's multi target pressure to be worth all the downsides the spec brings.
    - Crit is no longer a useless affliction stat.
    - Crit/Haste/Mastery now all scale together.
    - Afflic is less of an RNG spec that relies on procs at good times.
    - Afflic returns to somewhat of a forethought required and proactive spec for PvE instead of a reactive one to procs like it currently is.

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  16. #196
    IMHO drain life need a drastic change, is a very very old mechanism... channeling is garbish in pvp and drain life is "useful" vs ranged classes and awful vs melee. Warlock have probs with melee especially... destruction have powerful healing with ember tap, affliction and demonology have "no-healing".

    Suggestion: make drain life istant for demonology and affliction, with a little CD, and heal the caster like a "renew". The target take damage over time, the caster heal yourself over time, without channeling!

    New drain life can be similar to dk's syphon death, but damage and healing done over time. This can help us vs melee.

  17. #197
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rife View Post
    2. Remove Nightfall. New MG mechanic akin to DS where every 4 ticks of MG generates one soul shard.
    I wouldn't mind this one. The damage output of Affli can be subject to some horrible RNG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I only saw a few minutes of it but it looked slicker than a lubed up olympic swimmer fleeing from a shark.

  18. #198
    On the plus side of all this, at least its not as bad as the Cata 12% Destro Nerfs

  19. #199
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigjflo View Post
    On the plus side of all this, at least its not as bad as the Cata 12% Destro Nerfs
    Please, don't remind me of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I only saw a few minutes of it but it looked slicker than a lubed up olympic swimmer fleeing from a shark.

  20. #200
    Bloodsail Admiral Taros's Avatar
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    10% is insulting. Half Tyrannical, the other half 491 Malevolent and my shit still ticks for 2k. 10% of 2k is 200. so from 2k ticks to 2200 ticks. Gee, thanks.

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