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  1. #41
    Have to agree with you on the most part,

    I remember seeing a twink druid at 19, bear form 3k hp, although he decimated me and the rest of teh team, I still looked up to that player, and remebered when they nerfed twinks, meh ruined it but thats a different arguement

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan View Post
    And now, with a 2200 rating in 3s, 180.000 hks and most PvP achievements, I look back thinking: "The journey is the reward".
    Now that I'm at "the top", I do less PvP than I did before, even though I know that this time it would be me smashing the other players.
    Come 5.3, you'll have to prove it... your gear wont be a saving grace anymore. Once everyone who is maxed out in BiS pvp gear are limited when doing random BG's to those with entry lvl gear, you'll finally have some fun again.

    I know i will.


    I support the change because the biggest issue they have is with mid-season entries and late expansion entries to top lvl PVP. By those 2 points everyone else is able to 2-shot the entry lvl players and you can barely support your team to victory outside of healing and CC.

    You hit like a wet nooble, your armor has about as much defense as a slice of cheese, and psychologically it makes the game less fun and the likelihood that you'll want to play again lessens until you get a competitive edge.

    Even in pve players really can't enjoy world pvp because that random player in pvp gear who normally a priest could spam emotes and jump while casting could kill but because of resilience advantage it makes the fight one sided by default. They could even have the same skill, but you can't tell currently because gear>skill. Now come 5.3, gear=skill (in mathematical terms, not literally).

    Here's how it breaks down:
    - 496 pve vs 496 pve = advantage goes to player of skill or spec
    - 496 pve vs 496 pvp = advantage goes to player with pvp because of power and gems/enchants
    - 496 pvp vs 496 pvp = advantage goes to player of skill or spec
    Last edited by Masterpd85; 2013-03-26 at 07:21 PM.

  3. #43
    Stood in the Fire
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    I tend to find players fit in one of two categories in PvP.

    1. Challengers - These players are the sort to put their heads down and do their best even when knowing that the most optimal play likely will only result in a slight delay on the trip to the graveyard. They look forward to eventually getting to the point where, even if they're not the best geared, they're competitive if they play smart enough. This is how I PvP. I'll stare defeat in the face and keep right on giving my best. It's where I find the fun.

    These players will still enjoy PvP when everyone's gear level is more equivalent. In fact, it keeps the following from being as common an occurrence, because even after gearing a lot some players will still be able to give you a run for your money. It keeps PvP competitive.

    Now that I'm at "the top", I do less PvP than I did before, even though I know that this time it would be me smashing the other players.
    2. The Bully - These players love PvP in MMOs strictly for the joy of "smashing other players". They love the current system where they can do "okay" in arenas and get enough gear that the average battleground participant doesn't stand a chance. It's not really so different from the twinks that were upset that they were no longer able to compete against people just doing PvP as they leveled and those players who play on a PvP server just to spend most of their time in low level zones picking on lowbies.

    This change hurts the geared bullies most of all, because now even an average geared player may require that they pay attention.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Um nobody whined about honor grind...
    Stop herp a derping, did I ever state that was in this topic.
    Please think before you post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Yeah, Europe certainly didn't play any sort of role in destroying the stability of Africa. The United States is literally the source of all evil. The United Satans, mirite?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by KeirAdish View Post
    Stop herp a derping, did I ever state that was in this topic.
    Please think before you post.
    So the part about running heroics is unrelated to honor grind?

  6. #46
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard:
    "...The competitive nature of PvP means that highly geared players can serve as a deterrent to players who are looking into trying PvP for the first time."

    Okay, now this is quite wrong.
    I remember back in 2007, i was entering warsong gulch for the very first time with a level 16 character. I was what you call a noob. I haven't played any mmo before and everything was totally new to me.
    I got smashed.
    There were several level 19 ueber-twinks on the opposite side. Even though they didn't camp the graveyard, I died every time I encountered an enemy player. I didn't stand a chance.
    Okay, so how did I react?
    Well...did I stop trying? - No.
    Did I leave the battleground? - No!
    Did I quit the game? - HELL NO!
    Did this encourage me to get better in the game? Did this drive me to get better gear? Did this make me want to be overpowered one day? YES IT DID!
    So this drive has made me play WoW up until today. This drive is what got me into the game. I wanted to be like these overpowered level 19 twinks.
    I wanted revenge.

    And now, with a 2200 rating in 3s, 180.000 hks and most PvP achievements, I look back thinking: "The journey is the reward".
    Now that I'm at "the top", I do less PvP than I did before, even though I know that this time it would be me smashing the other players.
    Well barring being new to PvP this! ^^

    What drives me to hunt down and win against the team? I want to show I can be better. I want to get back at the player who has wiped the floor with me.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Glockoma View Post
    You just said it yourself. "Level 19 TWINKS". That means they have the best gear you can get and were raping
    You in the wsg. Now imagine if you and the twinks had the same gear and the only
    Difference was your skill level. You probably still would've got raped but not because
    Of gear but because of
    SKILL
    Does that change anything for the rape-e?

    It might make the one doing the raping feel his victory is even more penis enlarging, but at the end of the day - the person on the receiving end isn't likely to be checking everyone's armory when facerolled and going "oh man, I spend half the game as a ghost, but that's okay because these people are far better than me". The majority of the playerbase aren't content to be told to "Get better" when PVE content is too hard, I doubt they will with pvp, especially when half of it is class imbalance, at least with a raid boss it's a "fair" challenge across the board

  8. #48
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard:
    "...The competitive nature of PvP means that highly geared players can serve as a deterrent to players who are looking into trying PvP for the first time."

    Okay, now this is quite wrong.
    I remember back in 2007, i was entering warsong gulch for the very first time with a level 16 character. I was what you call a noob. I haven't played any mmo before and everything was totally new to me.
    I got smashed.
    There were several level 19 ueber-twinks on the opposite side. Even though they didn't camp the graveyard, I died every time I encountered an enemy player. I didn't stand a chance.
    Okay, so how did I react?
    Well...did I stop trying? - No.
    Did I leave the battleground? - No!
    Did I quit the game? - HELL NO!
    Did this encourage me to get better in the game? Did this drive me to get better gear? Did this make me want to be overpowered one day? YES IT DID!
    So this drive has made me play WoW up until today. This drive is what got me into the game. I wanted to be like these overpowered level 19 twinks.
    I wanted revenge.

    And now, with a 2200 rating in 3s, 180.000 hks and most PvP achievements, I look back thinking: "The journey is the reward".
    Now that I'm at "the top", I do less PvP than I did before, even though I know that this time it would be me smashing the other players.
    While I understand your story, I understand your motivation. However, I have one simple question, do you want PVP to be about who has the most skill, or the best gear? If you say you want it to be based on skill then you should welcome this change, if you say its all about the best gear then of course you would protest this change.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bublex View Post
    casual joins BG --> he gets stomped --> cries on forums --> blizzard makes some changes --> high rated pvpers are mad because the changes make no sence --> they join BG to practice --> they stomp casuals --> casuals cry on forums ... and so on for last 5 years +-
    --> skilled PvPers appreciate that the change means more players at their gear level which means more challenge instead of one shotting everyone which isn't what they consider "fun"

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    So the part about running heroics is unrelated to honor grind?
    If you read my post and don't try changing context of it you will understand that I state(quite clearly imo) that I was talking about players on Tiich and not those in this topic.

    Which as I stated the majority(on my server) think this change is stupid and unwarranted and the ones complaining on the server are the ones that either raid and don't think its fair they have to get PvP gear to PvP or those that complain they don't have time while playing PvE content, or just try to BG grind it and get killed then complain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Yeah, Europe certainly didn't play any sort of role in destroying the stability of Africa. The United States is literally the source of all evil. The United Satans, mirite?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by KeirAdish View Post
    If you read my post and don't try changing context of it you will understand that I state(quite clearly imo) that I was talking about players on Tiich and not those in this topic.

    Which as I stated the majority(on my server) think this change is stupid and unwarranted and the ones complaining on the server are the ones that either raid and don't think its fair they have to get PvP gear to PvP or those that complain they don't have time while playing PvE content, or just try to BG grind it and get killed then complain.
    You mentioned 5-6 gladiators or 2200+ people whatever, nothing about raiders and non-pvpers.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeleh View Post
    Personally I believe that they are attempting to address the wrong problem. I feel people are being put off PvP because of the terrible class balance which now exists and inconsistencies which arise due to PvP and PvE clashing. The solution would be two sets of numbers allowing them to balance PvP without impacting PvE at a much more consistent level.

    your 100% right-gear was never the problem in wow classes/talents are.they are just trying to mask how bad pvp is atm and those problems will still be there after they screw over all the pvpers again.

  13. #53
    I queue into BGs sometimes in full PvE gear and I mess people up and don't die too quick like I figure I will. I guess that depends on the healers and the gear of the opponents, but it's also to do with knowing how to play my class and a good idea of how to PvP with it, but I don't play this game for PvP.

    I think people will PvP if they enjoy it, they won't because they want to sit there getting owned by people in amazing gear so that you can go "gee, that person sure is awesome, I want to be like them someday!" and slowly get the gear they have. I am happy they're leaning toward making everyone more equal, making lower geared players to have a chance and overgeared players scaling down to have a slight advantage. And what's wrong with that? Nothing. Arenas are there, rated BGs are there, and I can see how it's fun to get a few people and wreck people in BGs because it's fun. In TBC, there was more of a strive to be better, because you had to be better if you wanted to be successful back then.

    What I get from your message is that you enjoy being able to wreck people in shitty gear because it's fun and they should wish to be like you and have your gear.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    your 100% right-gear was never the problem in wow classes/talents are.they are just trying to mask how bad pvp is atm and those problems will still be there after they screw over all the pvpers again.
    Actually in MoP the upgrade system resulted in huge massive explosion of whine threads; even the very top players did.

    The gear disparity have pvp really bad last season; The gear was one of the biggest problems in wow pvp. Solving it is actually a big step toward balancing

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    You mentioned 5-6 gladiators or 2200+ people whatever, nothing about raiders and non-pvpers.


    I'm sorry, but that's completely fallacious.
    My priest which is my current PvP toon plays on Tich, I'm personally only 1800 in RBG's right now but the group I run with has 5 or 6 Gladiators, and all but my priest have been(and currently are) 2200+ in arena's and/or RBG's, Not a single one of them like this change and all agree that its total BS of a change, as do most players on the server, the ones not complaining about this change are the ones too lazy(or too bad) to put the time into getting some PvP gear, which is kinda sad because if its not an AV week(end) and you have a healer/tank to que with its faster run heroics to get the gear so they can get their valor caps while gearing up for pvp instead of running BG's

    I do believe I did in-fact mention non(main) PvP players.
    Seriously did you read my post or no?

    I didn't specify raiders because I didn't feel I needed to specify them, Rather I chose to say what is bolded above.
    Obviously had I specified raiders you would have attacked that instead of the fact that I didn't, its a lose lose situation, you were simply trying to attack what I said, I would presume because you fall into the bolded category.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Yeah, Europe certainly didn't play any sort of role in destroying the stability of Africa. The United States is literally the source of all evil. The United Satans, mirite?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by KeirAdish View Post
    I'm sorry, but that's completely fallacious.
    My priest which is my current PvP toon plays on Tich, I'm personally only 1800 in RBG's right now but the group I run with has 5 or 6 Gladiators, and all but my priest have been(and currently are) 2200+ in arena's and/or RBG's, Not a single one of them like this change and all agree that its total BS of a change, as do most players on the server, the ones not complaining about this change are the ones too lazy(or too bad) to put the time into getting some PvP gear, which is kinda sad because if its not an
    AV week(end) and you have a healer/tank to que with its faster run heroics to get the gear so they can get their valor caps while gearing up for pvp instead of running BG's

    I do believe I did in-fact mention non(main) PvP players.
    Seriously did you read my post or no?

    I didn't specify raiders because I didn't feel I needed to specify them, Rather I chose to say what is bolded above.
    Obviously had I specified raiders you would have attacked that instead of the fact that I didn't, its a lose lose situation, you were simply trying to attack what I said, I would presume because you fall into the bolded category.
    the ones not complaining about this change are the ones too lazy(or too bad) to put the time into getting some PvP gear (first post)

    ones complaining on the server are the ones that either raid and don't think its fair they have to get PvP gear to PvP or those that complain they don't have time while playing PvE content, or just try to BG grind it and get killed then complain. (second post)

    Seem different to me
    Last edited by PrairieChicken; 2013-03-26 at 07:44 PM.

  17. #57
    Scarab Lord Anjerith's Avatar
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    It's going to be about Skill now, just accept it and adapt.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  18. #58
    today's gamers don't commit to anything. they don't want to. they're flaky. if your game doesn't target that flaky majority you're back to the 1,000,000 who want to play a challenging game

    you want your integrity and to die knowing you made a great game? or you want to cash checks

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    the ones not complaining about this change are the ones too lazy(or too bad) to put the time into getting some PvP gear (first post)

    ones complaining on the server are the ones that either raid and don't think its fair they have to get PvP gear to PvP or those that complain they don't have time while playing PvE content, or just try to BG grind it and get killed then complain. (second post)

    Seem different to me
    So now you're going to use a mis-wording as an attack, cute.
    So whilst typing I missed 4 keystrokes...
    Cool story...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Yeah, Europe certainly didn't play any sort of role in destroying the stability of Africa. The United States is literally the source of all evil. The United Satans, mirite?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    It's going to be about Skill now, just accept it and adapt.

    yeah wows all about skill lmfao!look a blood dk self healing himself,yup thats skill.

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