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  1. #81
    High Overlord Jaroko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard:
    "...The competitive nature of PvP means that highly geared players can serve as a deterrent to players who are looking into trying PvP for the first time."

    Okay, now this is quite wrong.
    I remember back in 2007, i was entering warsong gulch for the very first time with a level 16 character. I was what you call a noob. I haven't played any mmo before and everything was totally new to me.
    I got smashed.
    There were several level 19 ueber-twinks on the opposite side. Even though they didn't camp the graveyard, I died every time I encountered an enemy player. I didn't stand a chance.
    Okay, so how did I react?
    Well...did I stop trying? - No.
    Did I leave the battleground? - No!
    Did I quit the game? - HELL NO!
    Did this encourage me to get better in the game? Did this drive me to get better gear? Did this make me want to be overpowered one day? YES IT DID!
    So this drive has made me play WoW up until today. This drive is what got me into the game. I wanted to be like these overpowered level 19 twinks.
    I wanted revenge.

    And now, with a 2200 rating in 3s, 180.000 hks and most PvP achievements, I look back thinking: "The journey is the reward".
    Now that I'm at "the top", I do less PvP than I did before, even though I know that this time it would be me smashing the other players.
    The drive your talking about it still there. Want a good laugh? I started doing pvp as my end-game at the start of Cata....As an Enhancement shaman...
    How did that work for me? Yeah got stomped, But i talked to other pvpers, looked up info on web sites and got my game on. At the end of cata i had hit
    2200 with my 3's team ( Restro shaman and Marksman hunter , Both never had over 2000 rating before so no1 was carryed )

    It was a good feeling, its still out there its just that people seem to spend more time whining about being bad rather than learning skill to break the barriers in front of them.
    Maturity has more to do with what types of experiences you've had, and what you've learned from them, and less to do with how many birthdays you've celebrated.

    In todays times, People are obsessed with the end of days, Claiming that these are the darkest of times. It's only when you open a History book do we realize we have no right to - Scott J Keill.

  2. #82
    Most people simply don't have this mindset. The average person will move on to something else if they don't have immediate fun. It's the minority that sees through the learning curves.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    The average person will move on to something else if they don't have immediate fun.
    Which, for the players who are playing a game with the intent of having fun, is a perfectly reasonable response. Those who derive their fun largely from comparing themselves to others (i.e., those who find being the best to be the fun part) will have a substantially different attitude, of course.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuyn View Post
    Which, for the players who are playing a game with the intent of having fun, is a perfectly reasonable response. Those who derive their fun largely from comparing themselves to others (i.e., those who find being the best to be the fun part) will have a substantially different attitude, of course.
    Yep, agreed. The reality is just that the competitive minded people are the minority here, which is why I disagree with the premise of the thread.

    The ideal situation in any competitive mode in gaming is to have an easy level of entry with a difficult and hard to reach skill ceiling, which is frankly really hard to do. I'm one of the few that feels WoW does a decent job at this.
    Last edited by skitzy129; 2013-03-26 at 11:00 PM.

  5. #85
    Mechagnome Vinni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan View Post
    Okay, now this is quite wrong.
    No, it always depends on the person. In your case and other posters it served as a drive for you to achieve that goal. For some (possibly many, blizz would know better than the players naturally) it could intimidate them and never enter PvP again, OR some players couldn't really give a crap and only do PvP when bored or for some minor achievements (just like me).

    Please don't state opinion as fact.
    ''The only true failure is when you stop trying''.

  6. #86
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asb View Post
    Inspirational as your anecdote may be, you seem to be missing what they're actually aiming for. This game isn't really marketed as a PvP game in any way; it's really more of an alternate playstyle in a largely PvE game. I doubt they're looking to set the game up as a PvP challenge for new players to meet. Their changes to PvP gearing are to make it more accessible to the millions of dragonslayers already in the game that might enjoy PvP if they could be competitive in it. Keep in mind these aren't those exceptional newbies that are excited to improve; they're experienced players with developed egos. They have no interest in being useless and just getting farmed at low mmr, so if that's their only option they'll pass up the entire thing. I completely agree with these changes. There's no reason for PvP to be a gear grind when it can just be skill determining games.
    Basically this. I'm a Heroic raider who kills Heroic bosses pre nerf and that's what I enjoy in this game. But once in a while I do enjoy entering a BG or the odd Arena match and that's not really funny, when you have no gear. And in order to get gear enough to not get roflstomped, you need to grind. I don't wanna grind PvP gear, I'm already grinding dailies, mats for cooking and raiding 4-5 days per week.

    Add to that, the imbalance makes it even worse. If you play a class that's kinda crap and you're just trying to have fun - well good luck with that. A good PvP'er would still do decent but noob PvE'ers mostly just give up on it.

    But about "casuals", they're in both aspects of the game. I'm a casual or noob player when it comes to PvP, just as many PvP'ers are casuals or noob players when it comes to PvE. In PvE there's LFR where PvP players can easily gear up. They have the ilvl from their PvP gear and LFR doesn't distinguish the stats. But if PvE'ers want to have some fun in PvP, they have to grind their ass off to get the blue shit gear, then try to cap Conquest to get decent gear etc.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Bublex View Post
    problem is most casuals think being stomped is a bad think because they just want to jump around oneshot everyone because that's "fun" by their definition
    and if they don't get to do that they will whine and cry all over the place and they wont stop untill blizzard makes some changes and therefore casuals who are just bad affect high rated pvp and that's why people hate them

    it works like this

    casual joins BG --> he gets stomped --> cries on forums --> blizzard makes some changes --> high rated pvpers are mad because the changes make no sence --> they join BG to practice --> they stomp casuals --> casuals cry on forums ... and so on for last 5 years +-
    Please find me a good PVPer who thinks this change makes no sense.

  8. #88
    Quite simply, you are wrong, OP. Going into a BG at max level with no PvP gear and getting absolutely destroyed is a massive turn off. Why would I want to go into a controlled environment and just get mashed, over and over? Answer is, I wouldn't. Wait and see, your queue times will drop and the influx of people will be huge. This is a totally smart move on Blizzard's part. No one likes to get mashed for a month til they can get some decent gear.

  9. #89
    Basically, you are saying "good gear one shot newb".

    5.2 really killed newbs.
    2/2 upgraded previous tier one shot the current honor gear.

    If you missed the 5.0, you missed whole expansion.
    Last edited by xenogear3; 2013-03-27 at 01:05 AM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by loki504 View Post
    and they put in gear progression because otherwise people would be bored fast and all reroll fotm.
    might as well remove leveling because its not needed for a mmo because its all about end game.
    might as well remove gear from pve so we can't blame rng for your suc6.

    gear progression is needed. if you like it or not.
    If gear progression is in because otherwise people would be bored fast and all reroll FOTM, why were Wrath and TBC the two most popular arena expansions? They had one tier of gear.

    The rest of your post is you clearly proving you do not know what you are arguing for or against, and you're arguing based on the premise that, "Because it is in the game, it is correct".

  11. #91
    So basically you needed gear to be your crutch to fight those level 19s, and being facerolled by them made you think "oh this completely one sided and gear based pvp system is great"

    Sounds to me like you are just a really bad pvper, because none of the top pvpers like this system, and would welcome the extra competetion from a less gear based pvp system

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard:
    "...The competitive nature of PvP means that highly geared players can serve as a deterrent to players who are looking into trying PvP for the first time."
    They're talking about the gear discrepancy for new 90s trying to get into BGs and Arena and finding themselves up against people in 2/2 upgraded gear from previous seasons etc. The gearing last season was such that it could take you the whole season to catch up and by that time the next season was out.

    They're not talking about getting creamed in your first WSG at level 16. I guarantee you, that will still happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  13. #93
    Herald of the Titans Kurgath's Avatar
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    Oh old school PvP is back?! Yeeey! Still remember those WSG days on my Naxx Geared Holy Pala, all those "pro" pvpers running around me trying to kill me, but they just couldn't touch me!

    Best time I had in PvP! Tudurudu tudu Can't touch this!

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Strangely enough, not everyone who walks into a BG and gets utterly wtfpwned go "BY GOLLY IM GOING TO GET TO THAT LEVEL." Nobody is suggesting anything should be easy or free...but the entry level shouldn't be set as high as it is.
    Fuck you for making me spit tea out laughing at 'BY GOLLY IM GOING TO GET TO THAT LEVEL' xDDD No idea why I found that so funny, but yeah, brb cleaning up.

  15. #95
    Won't affect high rating AT ALL, everyone is sitting same gear anyway so doesn't effect me, all this will effect is low rated baddies and BG casual players...
    Quote Originally Posted by Makamoka View Post
    You not gamer, you go play your boring "Real life" with crappy graphics'n stuff! You cant even do Quests, dungeons and BGs in "IRL" :s
    "The ship of failure floats on a sea of excuses."

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Sorry, general player mentality has changed since then, they'd much rather quit.
    This may or may not be true, but it is definitely not fair.

    My team just recently quit raiding and began to focus only on pvp.

    We would queue into teams at the 1300 rating level with full mal, most of it upgraded, while we were in a mix of dreadful and mal. (started late last season, as I said)

    We would significantly outplay some of them, and win. We would outplay some of them a bit and win. Other times we would get our asses handed to us because of gear issues. Our healer ooming 2x as fast, needing to use our defensive CDs more often, and therefore getting less pressure, things of that nature.

    We couldn't get much past 1400, just due to gear.

    this season we're sitting around 1550, nothing to write home about, I know, but it's progress. and the progress is due exclusively to gear (playing MLS, so not a comp that got many buffs)

    You know how many nights we just wanted to throw things because of how fast we were dying? It was infuriating to see people with SO much of a gear advantage at such low levels, knowing that they were bad, knowing that we were outplaying them, but that gear was the issue.

    Not everyone can push through that. The change to pvp resilience being more base-line, means that undergeared players will have a better chance of out-SKILLING their opponents. They will still do less damage, and therefore take more damage, but the imbalance won't be as pronounced, and that is a good thing.

  17. #97
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    This may or may not be true, but it is definitely not fair.
    My team...
    We would...
    We would...
    We couldn't...
    This season we're sitting around...
    Hence, you're not a general player, you're an outlier.

    Sorry.
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  18. #98
    You know Devs are the same. No matter time nor place. They don't understand that us players don't put up with so many mistakes.

    So to you, all the heroes all across the land, there's no need to argue Blizzard just don't understand.

    *puts on shades and folds arms like a gangster*

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Hence, you're not a general player, you're an outlier.

    Sorry.
    An outlier because we kept going?

    Maybe, but not because the player base has changed, i think, but because the gear disparities and class balance was/is so bad that continuing onwards is somewhat crazy.

    You have to know in the beginning that it's going to be a beating, a completely unfair, unbalanced beating. If you thought you could have a decent amount of fun in arena, win some, lose some, get better, mid-way through a season, you probably were quickly disabused as your contender's/dreadful got destroyed and your increasingly mal gear continued to get destroyed by people in full mal and 2/2 upgrades.

    The only reason we kept going was the knowledge that 5.2 was almost here and we'd be on a more level playing field.
    Last edited by Thirtyrock; 2013-03-27 at 10:49 PM.

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