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  1. #1

    5.3 rogue changes discussion

    So the 5.3 changes are about to start flowing in. I for one hope that they maybe cut down haste done by Adrenaline Rush and maybe cut down killing spree damage but in turn buff sinister strike damage by at least 20-25%.

  2. #2
    I hope we don't get nerfed in PvP

  3. #3
    As an avid PvPer, I would love to see damage shifted away from passive white damage. A more active playstyle than simply juggling buff timers.

    Specifically, slice and dice. Get that thing outta here. Boring as hell. Make it a combat-specific ability if need be.
    Last edited by AwdBawl; 2013-03-23 at 06:11 AM.

  4. #4
    Rogue damage feels so passive right now with our auto attacks.
    I really hope damage is switched around so that our abilities hit harder as opposed to our white damage.

    Anybody else feel this way?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-22 at 07:58 PM ----------

    DAMN IT YOU BEAT ME Awdbawl!

    I totally agree....Slice and Dice is a really.....outdated ability? I've had S&D running since 2004 and it hasn't dropped once. It may be time to let it go! :P

  5. #5
    I hope they fix the mess they made of cross-spec balance.

  6. #6
    Maybe change Blade Flurry from a silly toggle to an ability with a 3 second cooldown that we can add to our rotation that hits multiple targets and hits hard. So a cleave rotation would be like SS-BF-SS-BF-RS-Ev

  7. #7
    Things I want.

    -Turn poisons into aura like buffs, meaning yea keep your silly cast time to apply them but remove duration, make them indefinite till changed.
    -Fix lock boxes. I should just be able to right click on them to open them.
    -Increase energy cost on ST (between 30-35). Its needed, you know it, I know it and that is that.
    -Add a 15-20 second cd to DT. Make it baseline. (WHY WAS IT EVER NOT BASELINE YOU MAGELUBBERS?!)
    -Replace DT with a shiv improvement talent. Remove energy cost, Increase its nonlethal poison effect. (Leeching poison heals more, paralytic poison roots longer ect)
    -Make swirly ball glyph baseline.
    -add pockets to stuff on island of the thunder king. (DO IT)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by AwdBawl View Post
    As an avid PvPer, I would love to see damage shifted away from passive white damage. A more active playstyle than simply juggling buff timers.

    Specifically, slice and dice. Get that thing outta here. Boring as hell. Make it a combat-specific ability if need be.
    I think SnD removal won't likely happen until 6.0. It's quite a playstyle and balance change, so I wouldn't consider shifting damage out of passives a strong likelihood until the next xpac.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-23 at 03:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Awokmywewok View Post
    Rogue damage feels so passive right now with our auto attacks.
    I really hope damage is switched around so that our abilities hit harder as opposed to our white damage.

    Anybody else feel this way?
    I pretty much agree with this. It's disappointing to look at DPS logs and see 50% of my damage coming from just Deadly Poison and auto-attacks, and very little coming from Mutilate, Dispatch and Envenom.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Shambulanced's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwdBawl View Post
    As an avid PvPer, I would love to see damage shifted away from passive white damage. A more active playstyle than simply juggling buff timers.

    Specifically, slice and dice. Get that thing outta here. Boring as hell. Make it a combat-specific ability if need be.
    If they were going to get rid of slice and dice, ret pallies would have had inquisition removed. It's just one of those, "well, you need to maintain it," concepts. Not fun, I agree with you, but it's not going anywhere with their current philosophies.

    That said, my guildie said it best about rogues.

    "Rogues will never be balanced or truly fixed because Blizzard has no idea how to balance them in both pvp and pve. When their abilities did massive damage they were too bursty in pvp and people complained. When they were balanced around passive damage people complained that they were useless in pvp. Blizz gave them control (tons of stuns, I remember maces in BC) and people complained about getting stun locked. So now, they're just sort of half good at everything in pvp, and somewhat boring to play in pve."

    And that's basically it. Pvp is the reason why rogues can't have all their damage stacked into their abilities rather than passives.


    Another huge change that rogues deserve that monks GOT is that combo points should be personal, not targeted. Monks don't need to redirect or any of that bs, and rogues shouldn't have to either. Combo points should represent momentum in combat.
    Quote Originally Posted by flick86 View Post
    It is not and never will be elitist to expect another player to know how to play his class and carry his own weight.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    Another huge change that rogues deserve that monks GOT is that combo points should be personal, not targeted. Monks don't need to redirect or any of that bs, and rogues shouldn't have to either. Combo points should represent momentum in combat.
    PLUS A ZILLION…!!!

    Redirect is nothing more than an interruption in my thought processes when I am trying to concentrate on my rotation, keeping everything up, watching that I do not stand in stuff, etc. Just let me carry those combo points over with me to the next mob, without my having to do anything special to do so…!

  11. #11
    i predict alot of nerfs coming with 5.3 which will affekt pve players aswell
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Boil View Post
    PLUS A ZILLION…!!!

    Redirect is nothing more than an interruption in my thought processes when I am trying to concentrate on my rotation, keeping everything up, watching that I do not stand in stuff, etc. Just let me carry those combo points over with me to the next mob, without my having to do anything special to do so…!
    i take it that you and Shambulanced aswell u guys dont pvp at all , the CP to be on rogue (monk style) will be simply game breaking (pvp wise that is)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezuma View Post
    i take it that you and Shambulanced aswell u guys dont pvp at all , the CP to be on rogue (monk style) will be simply game breaking (pvp wise that is)
    so monks having CPs on themselfes is game breaking too i dont see your point
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    so monks having CPs on themselfes is game breaking too i dont see your point
    can i ask what kind of 6 sec stun u get from monk with his combo points , monks combo points are nothing more than resources for the combat while rogue combos are control , resources and all them things ( small example for u 5 CPs on the target i swap on his healer 6 sec stun no DR No nothing without even touching his mate , sure i can do that with redirect but then again u can use that only once a min , would rly be stupid to stun your target partners 6 sec every 20 sec without any penalty )

    like i said monks chi are not game breaking since those dont provide anything close to the rogue CPS , if u want imagine the chi's just as extra energy for the monks

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezuma View Post
    can i ask what kind of 6 sec stun u get from monk with his combo points , monks combo points are nothing more than resources for the combat while rogue combos are control , resources and all them things ( small example for u 5 CPs on the target i swap on his healer 6 sec stun no DR No nothing without even touching his mate , sure i can do that with redirect but then again u can use that only once a min , would rly be stupid to stun your target partners 6 sec every 20 sec without any penalty )

    like i said monks chi are not game breaking since those dont provide anything close to the rogue CPS , if u want imagine the chi's just as extra energy for the monks
    you fail to see the point here even IF we had cp on rogues how would that be gamebreaking ? what exactly would change ? you still have a CD on your stun you still have energy cost on those abilitys nothing would change exept for the fact that we dont have to redirect our CP's in anyway which is hell of annoying to me.

    you also wouldnt have to worry about aoe'ing stuff since you could multi rupture or what ever you do as sub or combat there is nothing gamebreaking here.

    the only stun you are able to spam is cheap shot kindney is on a CD and since we got cloak and dagger you can stun the whore arena team so whats your point i dont get it and there is still DR you know to prevent stunlocking shit for like forever,we also have MFD to its basicly 2 redirects for free its even worse then CP's on the rogue its just not possible to stun the whole team for 6 seconds you would have to build cp's realy fast to do so that 15 in total for a 3 man arena team if you stun one build another 5 cps switch over the the other guy who might stand like 30 yards away by the time you get to him the other guys stun might wear off just sayin

    also monks have fists of fury every 25 seconds which is a kind of AOE stun if you catch 2 guys in it and break the chanelling they are still stunned
    Last edited by Koji2k11; 2013-03-23 at 05:13 PM.
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    I hope they fix the mess they made of cross-spec balance.
    This! And I want the same range on BF as on FoK since it is really an AE now and not a cleave, and enough of a buff to rupture (at least for combat) that the difference between a rupture and evis damage wise is clearly noticeable and not some very small marginal gain.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezuma View Post
    small example for u 5 CPs on the target i swap on his healer 6 sec stun no DR No nothing without even touching his mate
    Just so you know, rogue stuns are all on DR now. They share DR with pretty much every other targetted stun, and Cheap Shot and Kidney are on the same DR even.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezuma View Post
    can i ask what kind of 6 sec stun u get from monk with his combo points , monks combo points are nothing more than resources for the combat while rogue combos are control , resources and all them things ( small example for u 5 CPs on the target i swap on his healer 6 sec stun no DR No nothing without even touching his mate , sure i can do that with redirect but then again u can use that only once a min , would rly be stupid to stun your target partners 6 sec every 20 sec without any penalty )

    like i said monks chi are not game breaking since those dont provide anything close to the rogue CPS , if u want imagine the chi's just as extra energy for the monks
    Everyone that whines about rogues having CP's on themselves always seems to forget that in order for the rogue to stun someone for 6 seconds, he/she still needs to get those CP's SOMEWHERE. They don't just magically appear. The build-up time stays the same, the stun target changes. That's it.

    Also in a 2v2 situation, in order to stun one partner you sacrifice stunning the other. You can't have both. Stunning the DPS of course means I don't get attacked for 6 seconds, but the healer can have a pay day negating all my damage. Stunning the healer means no heals for 6 seconds, but that DPS is gonna have a ball unloading his cooldowns on me. The other enemy player doesn't drop everything to wait for their teammate; they're going to continue doing what they've been doing. Not to mention the fact that if I want to switch targets from DPS to healer, I have to go run up to the healer. I know of no healers that do what they do within arm's distance from the enemy player at all times. There is nothing OP here.

    The game didn't implode when were given the opportunity to Cheap Shot everyone within 30 yards through Shadow Dance and Cloak and Dagger either.

    The only caveat I would suggest for CP's building on the rogue would be that those CP's awarded from Marked for Death need to be used on either yourself (SnD/Recup) or the target with the Marked for Death debuff. Otherwise they will disappear after, say, 10-15 seconds of not being used.

  19. #19
    Marked for death would need a complete redesign. It wouldn't make any sense in a world where the combo points are attached to the rogue.

    That said, I still think combo points need to be tied to a target. Redirect needs its cooldown reduced though. I think maybe 10-15sec seems appropriate, and after the cd is down to that level, remove it from restless blades.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Carni View Post
    Things I want.

    -Turn poisons into aura like buffs, meaning yea keep your silly cast time to apply them but remove duration, make them indefinite till changed.
    -Fix lock boxes. I should just be able to right click on them to open them.
    -Increase energy cost on ST (between 30-35). Its needed, you know it, I know it and that is that.
    -Add a 15-20 second cd to DT. Make it baseline. (WHY WAS IT EVER NOT BASELINE YOU MAGELUBBERS?!)
    -Replace DT with a shiv improvement talent. Remove energy cost, Increase its nonlethal poison effect. (Leeching poison heals more, paralytic poison roots longer ect)
    -Make swirly ball glyph baseline.
    -add pockets to stuff on island of the thunder king. (DO IT)

    QQ more about ST and DT... You must be a mage

    Infracted: trolling
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-23 at 11:23 PM.

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