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  1. #1

    Fire at Low Gear

    tl;dr in advance: What the hell.


    So yeah, we all know Fire's "Good once you hit 515+"

    Thing is, from hitting 90 at ~435 to 515 is a MASSIVE gear increase.

    My mage currently sits at 484 (I only LFR on her as I'm not finding mages in general that fun right now), and Fire's just... unplayable.

    Is this seriously what Blizz want? For fire to be completely and utterly useless unless we're in a progression guild doing t15 content and getting damned lucky with drops?

    Or, have I missed anything in regards to any changes to make it actually playable?

    I just did Will in LFR and went 16 casts (I've been counting in fights now) without a single crit. I know RNG is RNG, but that's just abysmal...
    I had 29% crit buffed (Reforged for Frost, but still, point stands for people in 460 gear)

    What are mages honestly supposed to do with Fire right now?

  2. #2
    To not go fire until enough crit.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Steeljp View Post
    To not go fire until enough crit.
    His point is that is a stupid design for a spec to have to be higher than the average ilvl for it to be playable. He's not whining about damage or anything.

    Its like you had to have 520 ilvl for your rogue to play assa, that would be just dumb.
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  4. #4
    Ok, 16 non-crits in a row is serious bad luck, but don't exaggerate the situation in a moment of rage. Fire is not "utterly useless" or "unplayable".

    My item level is about 10 points under yours, and *I* can at least be competitive in LFR.

    And even if you are spamming 16 Fireballs in a row with no crits, who cares? Your job as Fire is to keep a bomb up and react to Heating Up procs. If you got no procs, you did the most damage you possibly could. Why complain?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantWave View Post
    tl;dr in advance: What the hell.


    What are mages honestly supposed to do with Fire right now?

    well Basacly Frost is really really good, and Sadly blizzard will never fix so you can play all 3 speccswith 1% ahead etc, it just doesnt work like that, If you really want to go fire, Pug Alot more because you wont be able to go fire until 30% crit raidbuffed.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    Ok, 16 non-crits in a row is serious bad luck, but don't exaggerate the situation in a moment of rage. Fire is not "utterly useless" or "unplayable".

    My item level is about 10 points under yours, and *I* can at least be competitive in LFR.

    And even if you are spamming 16 Fireballs in a row with no crits, who cares? Your job as Fire is to keep a bomb up and react to Heating Up procs. If you got no procs, you did the most damage you possibly could. Why complain?

    Sure I may be exaggerating, but when I can swap straight to frost and almost double my damage? Even if it was bad luck, that disparity is just plain stupid.

    Competitive in LFR, honestly, is easy anyway as most people in LFR can barely break 40k it seems.


    And yes, I did do the best I could as fire considering the lack of crits. Had I been frost or arcane, my damage would have been vastly higher.
    Not to mention just how plain frustrating it is.

    As Eihwaz said - I'm not complaining about Fire's damage - at least not its potential. Yes, it scales amazingly, and yes people think high geared fire needs a nerf due to that.

    I'm complaining that this completely shafts people who *aren't* high geared, simply because they picked Fire.

  7. #7
    Fair enough man. Sorry if I misread your post a bit - it seemed a little complainy.

  8. #8
    All specs have always scaled differently. Mages should not complain though, for that it's fury warriors who are the kings of bad design.

  9. #9
    Balance Druids say "Hi". Reliance on decent gear just to get enough crit for a spec to be viable is a horrible design, and hopefully Blizzard fix this in the next expansion.

  10. #10
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinleezwins View Post
    All specs have always scaled differently. Mages should not complain though, for that it's fury warriors who are the kings of bad design.
    It's my raid, and I'll cry if I want to.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  11. #11
    low gear is bad for all talent

  12. #12
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djdobai View Post
    low gear is bad for all talent
    False, it's worse for Fire because it depends on a certain threshold of critical strike.

    And yet, the developers still haven't learned as regards Fire's scaling problems. It's time that Hot Streak is untied from crit and given a flat percentage to proc.
    Last edited by Didactic; 2013-03-28 at 05:48 PM.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by djdobai View Post
    low gear is bad for all talent
    Couldn't be more wrong.
    You don't need "x" stats for arcane or frost to be fun and have the proper rotation. Same for almost all specs of all classes.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  14. #14
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Couldn't be more wrong.
    You don't need "x" stats for arcane or frost to be fun and have the proper rotation. Same for almost all specs of all classes.
    Conversely, X stats doesn't make Arcane any more fun :P

    While we're on the subject of stats, Eihwaz; tell me what you think about the poor stat conversion between Mage specs at the moment?
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Conversely, X stats doesn't make Arcane any more fun :P

    While we're on the subject of stats, Eihwaz; tell me what you think about the poor stat conversion between Mage specs at the moment?
    Didn't sure I got your question.
    You're talking about how our stats weight differs too much between mages specs ? And so it may be a hassle to switch between specs or whatever ?
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  16. #16
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Didn't sure I got your question.
    You're talking about how our stats weight differs too much between mages specs ? And so it may be a hassle to switch between specs or whatever ?
    Basically.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Basically.
    I think its pretty fine actually.

    You could gear up as haste arcane and switch to frost when needed (daylies, heroics..)
    You now can frost and get Haste > Crit and then switch to fire because Haste and Crit are the right stats too. (what I did yesterday).

    I never went and never will be arcane mastery because its too slow for me and mastery is useless for frost and fire

    All in all it may be one of the rare positive points of ours specs right now
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  18. #18
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    I think its pretty fine actually.

    You could gear up as haste arcane and switch to frost when needed (daylies, heroics..)
    You now can frost and get Haste > Crit and then switch to fire because Haste and Crit are the right stats too. (what I did yesterday).

    I never went and never will be arcane mastery because its too slow for me and mastery is useless for frost and fire

    All in all it may be one of the rare positive points of ours specs right now
    I find it an annoyance due to that itemization on Tier gear; at least it isn't as bad as it used to be thanks to Reforging, I guess.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I find it an annoyance due to that itemization on Tier gear; at least it isn't as bad as it used to be thanks to Reforging, I guess.
    Yeah the itemisation is weird and you have to spent lots of gold to reforge often, but gold isn't a problem in MoP, I just wish I didn't have to pay 200Gold whenever I get a new items.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    Ok, 16 non-crits in a row is serious bad luck, but don't exaggerate the situation in a moment of rage. Fire is not "utterly useless" or "unplayable".

    My item level is about 10 points under yours, and *I* can at least be competitive in LFR.

    And even if you are spamming 16 Fireballs in a row with no crits, who cares? Your job as Fire is to keep a bomb up and react to Heating Up procs. If you got no procs, you did the most damage you possibly could. Why complain?
    There's about 0.5% chance of 16 non-crits in a row at his ilvl...that's pretty bad, but not at all astronomical bad luck. It's also very, very bad game design. I don't understand why they wouldn't make a stacking crit buff for a spec like this, maybe 5-10% crit chance for each non-crit, until you do indeed get a crit. So his gear he starts 30% crit, he would be guaranteed a crit in 7-14 casts at most, if he managed to get non-crits at 95%, 90%, etc. This way, with far worse luck than even he had you'd still be able to get back on track within a limited time frame.

    The thing is, I think most people including myself really love fire gameplay when it's working. It almost feels like an actual inferno, with things exploding and bursting into flames without warning. I'd love to keep the spec that way, only without such punishing bad luck stretches. You can't really justify a spot to a raid leader because your preferred spec 'feels cool'!

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