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  1. #1
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
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    Hunter tricks against Vanish?

    In short: Isle of Thunder, world PvP / Ganking (whatever), beating rogues but not being able to deliver the killing blow to them.
    Problem: Vanish

    - Preemptively placing a flare on top of them does not do the job, they won't vanish on top of a flare.
    - Serpent sting or any other dot does knock them out of stealth too late, they are too far away already, even when forward disengaging towards their direction of escape (they adapt it anyway).
    - Shooting a flare in the direction they run, after I see them vanish rarely does anything for me, especially that I have to deal with a forced delay (server check?) between activating the targeting circle and launching the flare. They probably also quickly change the direction.
    - Keeping them stunned etc. isn't an option, many of them want to run away after they receive like only 3 arrows into their arse, this means at high health.

    I know that vanishing on top of a flare will cancel vanish, but I'm not sure if launching a flare on a vanished rogue will break his stealth (instantly?) even through vanish immunity. Either I'm not hitting them, or there is an issue. Also keep in mind that it's world PvP on Isle of Thunder, this means that their mindset is different from arenas or duels, they tend to pull the "I'm out of here" trigger very quickly.

    Are there any efficient tricks or glitches that could help a hunter to make a rogue taste the killing blow more often?

    I think there was or is something that makes a hunter pet follow a rogue even after he vanished(?)

    L2P isn't the answer, at least not the complete answer. More constructive suggestions please. Also, theorycrafting is nice, but a validated test on Isle of Thunder would be even better, as the rogues there have the will to run away, as already mentioned.
    Last edited by joepesci; 2013-03-25 at 06:44 PM.

  2. #2
    Know when they are going to vanish and throw the flare when they do.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Throw Flare, it insta-counters Vanish-Stealth.

  4. #4
    Warchief
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    exept rooting them in a flare theres not much else to do , subterfuge basically guarantee rog will get the fck out if they feel like it...

  5. #5
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
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    I guess some of you did read only the thread title...
    If that's all, then I need to work on my flare skills, but I doubt it.

    Anticipating vanish works, but it's also luck dependent, and on top of that, if it works --> preparation and they do it again.
    Last edited by joepesci; 2013-03-25 at 06:50 PM.

  6. #6
    Pre-flare and keep Serpent Sting up. Once a rogue uses cloak you insta dot him again and he can't vanish. The most effective method is predicting when they're going to vanish and you pre-flare his ass. Honestly it's easier than it sounds.
    "Druid must be boss, Hunter is just Drain-monkey.

    Hunter scatter this rogue.
    Hunter drain that priest.
    Hunter where is frost trap. Bad Hunter! No banana!
    Hunter where is flare? No flare, you get replaced by retarded warrior!"

    -Huainy

  7. #7
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    Can't you flare on top of yourself? It's more of a defensive flare and they'll be able to re-open, but they won't get the ambush off unless they have that one talent which effectively extends stealth abilities after stealth is broken.

    Other than that, just keep a DoT on him. With the reduced CD of cloak though, it's almost certain he'll be able to cloak into vanish. Rogues are just suddenly OP again.

    Offensively, though? No clue. I consider it a win anyways when they turn tail and run. You're never going to beat cowards anyways, they've already beaten themselves.

  8. #8
    High Overlord House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joepesci View Post
    I guess some of you did read only the thread title...
    If that's all, then I need to work on my flare skills, but I doubt it.

    Anticipating vanish works, but it's also luck dependent, and on top of that, if it works --> preparation and they do it again.
    useless hunter forum ask on rogues forum they will help u better trust me
    dunno what problem with hunters ppl

  9. #9
    What really bothers me is rogues doing more ranged damage than I do with throw.
    "Druid must be boss, Hunter is just Drain-monkey.

    Hunter scatter this rogue.
    Hunter drain that priest.
    Hunter where is frost trap. Bad Hunter! No banana!
    Hunter where is flare? No flare, you get replaced by retarded warrior!"

    -Huainy

  10. #10
    Make sure your flare is off CD and use it immediately when he vanishes. Also, make sure you close to him when he vanishes. If he's too far away the travel time on flare will take forever and he'll be long gone by the time your flare hits the ground. Other than that though, rogues can get away from anyone unless they screw up. Hunters are the best equipped out of any class to kill them and it's still not easy so don't get mad if you don't get him. Just heal up when he runs away and keep questing.

    Pre-flare and keep Serpent Sting up. Once a rogue uses cloak you insta dot him again and he can't vanish. The most effective method is predicting when they're going to vanish and you pre-flare his ass. Honestly it's easier than it sounds.
    Why would a rogue ever cloak? That serpent sting damage isn't hurting him nearly enough to waste cloak. The only way a rogue is going to waste that CD against you is if you're playing with a crane and he pre-emptively cloaks to go immune to the crane's sleep.
    Last edited by Neazy; 2013-03-26 at 05:00 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    Make sure your flare is off CD and use it immediately when he vanishes. Also, make sure you close to him when he vanishes. If he's too far away the travel time on flare will take forever and he'll be long gone by the time your flare hits the ground. Other than that though, rogues can get away from anyone unless they screw up. Hunters are the best equipped out of any class to kill them and it's still not easy so don't get mad if you don't get him. Just heal up when he runs away and keep questing.



    Why would a rogue ever cloak? That serpent sting damage isn't hurting him nearly enough to waste cloak. The only way a rogue is going to waste that CD against you is if you're playing with a crane and he pre-emptively cloaks to go immune to the crane's sleep.
    A rogue would cloak if they wanted to re-stealth. Not to mitigate SrS damage.

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  12. #12
    The number of people in here who don't understand what Subterfuge is is astounding. Like, seriously, stop trying to theorycraft your pvp without accounting for the targets talent points. You look silly.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    The number of people in here who don't understand what Subterfuge is is astounding. Like, seriously, stop trying to theorycraft your pvp without accounting for the targets talent points. You look silly.
    Subterfuge has no effect vs flare. Now you're looking silly.

  14. #14
    joepesci
    It may be not your case, but if you speak about Isle of Thunder, there's a gay thing some rogues do: they stand near their faction daily quest beacon (or moving beacons centered on some friendly npc) and spam shuriken toss on people passing by, quickly getting inside those invisible spheres which makes them basically immune to any retaliation, that action looks just like vanish. And you simply can't do anything about, they don't even need to use vanish itself.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome
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    Shouldn't Lynx Rush/aMoC prevent vanish? They're physical DoTs, not magic, so can't cloak them
    Last edited by Thiron; 2013-03-26 at 01:34 PM.
    Old Gods made me do it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Thiron View Post
    Shouldn't Lynx Rush/aMoC prevent vanish? They're physical DoTs, not magic, so can't cloak them
    The dots dont prevent vanish from being used they only bring them out of stealth. Thing is rogues dont actually enter stealth until 2 or 3 seconds after using vanish and then the dot has to deal damage which may take another second. Followed by subterfuge for 3 seconds, so a total of up to 7 seconds not beeing able to see the rogue and during this time they have sprinted off into a unknown direction.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by House View Post
    useless hunter forum ask on rogues forum they will help u better trust me
    dunno what problem with hunters ppl
    How very constructive, because rogues will obviously be able to help a hunter out.

    If you say you can pre judge when they're going to vanish lay off your DPS for a while and just have your keybind or your mouse over flare and have it ready for when he does do it. Usually when they do it on me I usually aim the flare at about 2 o clock or 10 o clock instead of straight ahead because they usually run off sideways thinking your going to stick a flare straight ahead.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    A rogue would cloak if they wanted to re-stealth. Not to mitigate SrS damage.
    Exactly. Any smart rogue will vanish and then cloak, not the other way around, guaranteeing a restealth. That's why you need to rely on flare to break them out because SrS is counterable by any rogue with a brain.

  19. #19
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
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    Well so there's no "pet follows vanished rogue" trick? I recall that rogues complained about something like that. Probably it's fixed by now.

    I'm gonna try out better flare strategies and maybe reducing the range when going against rogues even more. Currently I'm fighting them at approx. 20 yards, not further away, as I know what they are up to eventually. Shuriken Toss makes close range but not meele combat not much worse than staying at 30 yards, but it should improve the chance to stop them from getting away.

    Btw. rogue forums won't help here with suggestions as I'm gonna be treated as an intruder and dealt accordingly with. See my other thread there, where I asked a rather objective question about ST dps.
    Last edited by joepesci; 2013-03-26 at 07:48 PM.

  20. #20
    ^ I play both a rogue and a hunter so I have a pretty objective point of view. Bottom line is the rogue will always get away unless you hit him with flare on his 2nd vanish or he does something stupid and lets you kill him. I recommend you eat or bandage if he gets a restealth off and don't worry so much about killing him. Making him use his cooldowns and run away is a victory against rogues.

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