Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    Yea MoP pvp, is way more boring than TBC, Woltk, Cata.. i hope they'll fix it this season...!

  2. #42
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    11,521
    Quote Originally Posted by Giveaway247 View Post
    Yea MoP pvp, is way more boring than TBC, Woltk, Cata.. i hope they'll fix it this season...!
    Cataclysm was a wreck as well, though that was more due to general balance issues than CC problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I only saw a few minutes of it but it looked slicker than a lubed up olympic swimmer fleeing from a shark.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaeed Massani View Post
    Cataclysm was a wreck as well, though that was more due to general balance issues than CC problems.
    Wrath was a disaster too, at least in terms of how long and to the gross extent that DKs shit on everybody. BC was messy too, and don't even get started on Vanilla, so I'd say Giveaway is on to something.

    This game is a PvE game in which PvP got more popular than intended. That's not an insult, I've come to enjoy PvP more than raiding, but the fact remains they never expected to have to deal with the problems they now face, and they're poorly suited to do so. There will never be balance, short of complete homogeneity.

  4. #44
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Germany (EU Outland)
    Posts
    784
    Maybe it's time for them to shift priorities, after so many years. There have been enough primal evils who have claimed world dominance, they all have failed, so they can stop now. Let us get rid of Sargeras and also let us kill God, or whoever is the boss of the bosses, and it's good, it's enough PvE.

    PvP balance + PvP content >>> PvE everything.

    I would love it.
    Last edited by joepesci; 2013-03-29 at 02:25 PM.

  5. #45
    Hell, you'd think they'd put more focus on PVP, people get bored of 10 new instances in 2 months, we've been playing WSG/AB/Eots for 6-8 years respectively with a grin on our face asking for balance more than content. Give PvPers a big content boost, that'd be wonderful.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyWaken View Post
    Hell, you'd think they'd put more focus on PVP, people get bored of 10 new instances in 2 months, we've been playing WSG/AB/Eots for 6-8 years respectively with a grin on our face asking for balance more than content. Give PvPers a big content boost, that'd be wonderful.
    As fun as this sounds, I think I speak for most of us when I say, pvp balance first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Shockwave on 20s is not bad when you compare it to the bullshit other classes were given; 3s warbringer into 4s shockwave was the real problem, but even then you still have 5s cheapshot into 2.5s cheapshot now, its just bad design in general, but that only seems to matter for Warrior abilities.

    The playstyle of most classes now is that of a mage or rogue in Wrath, the level of instant CC and just bullshit abilities you scratch your head at wondering why they were put in the game. Instead of nerfing mage control they brought other classes to that level of idiotic CC, then decided to push Mages ahead of that, then decided Healers need to be caught up to mage level, and then brought up other classes as well. Spiraling into stupidity.

    If they really want more people to PvP, then they have to start by nerfing the shit out of CC because it ruins the pvp experience. No more spammable CC, no more instants that last for more then 4s, no more chaining instants that don't break on damage. Then they nerf the shit out of healers, because the only thing that comes close to being as annoying as CC is these seemingly invincible healers. I remember a very long stretch of WoW where I was able to solo healers and GASP people still ran healers in there 2s,3s,5s and BGs. This worked because the Healer would be helped out by their teammates!!!!! CC and Healers are imo 90% of Frustration people have in PvP; and it doesnt have to be this way; and it didn't used to be.
    Totally agree with you. People where moaning about too much CC back in Wrath, and their big solution for Cata was to up the heath pools and give everyone more CC; a design solution which gives people more of what they were complaining about. And what really irks me is that one of their main points in the MoP talent changes was to readdress these points and make "balance" easier. Blizzard are under the delusion that the present implementation CC brings tactical considerations to PvP when all that really happens for the majority of players is spam ur CC button without a care in the world because you have another off CD in 10 secs. MoP PvP is the most unenjoyable iteration of PvP I have had in this game and I say this as a Shadow Priest.

  8. #48
    If someone wants to do PvP, you dont want to do it in WoW.. it's just the worst kind of PvP there is..

    RvR is where it's at

  9. #49
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The apotheosis of all Deserts
    Posts
    5,034
    I am fine with each class having some sort of Unique crowd control option. I do think that Unique is really the key word.

    I.E. Something like;
    Shadow Priests - AoE mana drain
    Survival Hunters - Wyvern Sting
    Prot Warriors - Disarm
    Blood Death Knights - Strangulate
    etc. etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    I am fine with each class having some sort of Unique crowd control option. I do think that Unique is really the key word.

    I.E. Something like;
    Shadow Priests - AoE mana drain
    Survival Hunters - Wyvern Sting
    Prot Warriors - Disarm
    Blood Death Knights - Strangulate
    etc. etc.
    Mass grip is unique. Beam is unique. Vortex is unique.

    Put them together and you will wanna punch through your monitor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  11. #51
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Fuck you, that's where.
    Posts
    4,492
    I actually quit WoW because of the state PVP is in now and has been since Cata came out. They wanted to make PVP more accessible, easier and less limiting for the average player, yet they managed to do the exact opposite. They have created a clusterfuck on a whole new level.

    -What Blizzard thought they did-
    1:Make it more accessible by reducing the in-game time it takes to get full PVP gear and become competitive.
    2:Make PVP less limiting and more accessible by adding more automation and procs on spells and decreasing "boring" downtime (cooldowns).
    3:Adding another layer of complexity by letting specs have several different types of CC abilities on different DR tables.

    - What Blizzard really did-
    1:Made it forgivable and quick to reroll class/spec mid-season to be able to play what's currently the strongest class/spec available, resulting in overflow.
    2:Made it frustrating and restricting by adding the RNGJESUS and cooldown war element to PVP.
    3:Reduced the overall complexity of PVP by allowing people to chain different CC types on each other unrestricted by their own DR's.

    So we have 9 schools or DR then we have some spells which have a DR of their own (Cyclone,Entrapment,Mind control etc). This means that any one person can have 4x9(36)CC's chained on them before they become completely immune. Each DR category is on a 15 second timer which means that the DR on the first spells will run out long before we've even reached to get halfway through the chain resulting in an endless CC chain with A LOT of room for misused CC(stacking/wasting). No timing is required and no thought is required. CC chaining has become exactly like Whack-a-mole with multiplayer support.

    You can whack as many times you want without losing the game. When the mole shows up you either fast enough and whack it or you miss the opportunity. Once you whack the mole it doesn't go away, you can continue whacking it as long as you want.

    Blizzard have to stop balancing this game while pretending that people work together, no one does. Arena and RBG isn't popular. It's a fucking illusion and wish thinking. The majority only plays rbg/arena because there is better gear there, it's not here the most time is spent. It's random ass bg's and duels where people spend time, get angry and cry at each other because of pvp imbalance. It's here the scaling needs to occur!!

    In Rated PVP everybody and their grandmother cooperates. This should be scaled around cooperative PVP.

    In Non-rated PVP nobody is cooperating and nobody cares about each other. It should be scaled with that in mind. Just like it was back in Vanilla/Tbc and wotlk.

    Blizzard really need to stop thinking there is a solution to fairly scale 100 different elements of the game under 1 scaling model. Not possible!! STAPH IT!
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    I actually quit WoW because of the state PVP is in now and has been since Cata came out. They wanted to make PVP more accessible, easier and less limiting for the average player, yet they managed to do the exact opposite. They have created a clusterfuck on a whole new level.

    -What Blizzard thought they did-
    1:Make it more accessible by reducing the in-game time it takes to get full PVP gear and become competitive.
    2:Make PVP less limiting and more accessible by adding more automation and procs on spells and decreasing "boring" downtime (cooldowns).
    3:Adding another layer of complexity by letting specs have several different types of CC abilities on different DR tables.

    - What Blizzard really did-
    1:Made it forgivable and quick to reroll class/spec mid-season to be able to play what's currently the strongest class/spec available, resulting in overflow.
    2:Made it frustrating and restricting by adding the RNGJESUS and cooldown war element to PVP.
    3:Reduced the overall complexity of PVP by allowing people to chain different CC types on each other unrestricted by their own DR's.

    So we have 9 schools or DR then we have some spells which have a DR of their own (Cyclone,Entrapment,Mind control etc). This means that any one person can have 4x9(36)CC's chained on them before they become completely immune. Each DR category is on a 15 second timer which means that the DR on the first spells will run out long before we've even reached to get halfway through the chain resulting in an endless CC chain with A LOT of room for misused CC(stacking/wasting). No timing is required and no thought is required. CC chaining has become exactly like Whack-a-mole with multiplayer support.

    You can whack as many times you want without losing the game. When the mole shows up you either fast enough and whack it or you miss the opportunity. Once you whack the mole it doesn't go away, you can continue whacking it as long as you want.

    Blizzard have to stop balancing this game while pretending that people work together, no one does. Arena and RBG isn't popular. It's a fucking illusion and wish thinking. The majority only plays rbg/arena because there is better gear there, it's not here the most time is spent. It's random ass bg's and duels where people spend time, get angry and cry at each other because of pvp imbalance. It's here the scaling needs to occur!!

    In Rated PVP everybody and their grandmother cooperates. This should be scaled around cooperative PVP.

    In Non-rated PVP nobody is cooperating and nobody cares about each other. It should be scaled with that in mind. Just like it was back in Vanilla/Tbc and wotlk.

    Blizzard really need to stop thinking there is a solution to fairly scale 100 different elements of the game under 1 scaling model. Not possible!! STAPH IT!
    You want to know the crappiest thing of all. Let's just assume Blizzard does happen to magically make things better. They aren't going to do for at least another year when the next expansion comes out.

    I'm pretty much at a stopping point with WoW PvP. Every time I think maybe I am being rash or unreasonable and give PvP another chance I end up breaking another keyboard. I guess I really have to look for my PvP fix elsewhere. Maybe Street Fighter or Soul Calibur.

  13. #53
    Except dr is based on class comp way more the
    Than skill. Right class comp - no dr. Which is not skill or talent but simply rolling a fotm comp.
    Last edited by Djaye; 2013-03-29 at 09:49 PM.

  14. #54
    Couldn't agree more. I loved PvP in Cataclysm, had my rage moments and occasional QQ NERF MELEE posts on the forums, but it was miles better than what we have now.

  15. #55
    I think it is hilarious when people say CC makes it not a dps race. That is a lie. Even with CC it is still a dps race. Whoever has the BEST or most NUMEROUS CC wins unless they are absolutely terrible. They need to make all cc/stuns break on damage, that way people actually have to think about when to use cc and how to coordinate with each other. Nobody should ever die while they are not in control of their character, that is lame. Also, people need to get over this mentality that the only way to deal with a healer is to kill them - you can neutralize them much better by keeping them CCed and killing their teamates then sitting their just throwing dps into them which is something most people do not understand. CC should be used to remove a person from a fight temporarily, not kill them. Of course people that like to kill helpless targets will disagree but that is just because they don't want fairness. I play a priest and I would be perfectly fine if all my fears broke on even 1 damage. I want to be fair (which is why rogues do not appeal to me and a lot of other people).

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    The playstyle of most classes now is that of a mage or rogue in Wrath, the level of instant CC and just bullshit abilities you scratch your head at wondering why they were put in the game. Instead of nerfing mage control they brought other classes to that level of idiotic CC, then decided to push Mages ahead of that, then decided Healers need to be caught up to mage level, and then brought up other classes as well. Spiraling into stupidity.
    There is nothing wrong with having CC heavy classes - although Rogues were a little stupid with full-stunlocks. Mage CC has actually gotten nerfed from Cata to MoP, they are effectively back to wrath levels.

    But as you mentioned, making every class CC heavy has resulted in the mess that we have today. As to why a tankly high durability (and now high mobility; they are effectively unkiteable now) class like Warriors need an AoE stun on such a short CD is a mystery.

    The result is classes like mages are being made ever more tankly to compensate for the increase damage taken due to the CC arms race. Rogues ... Given low CD cloak + prep baseline ...

  17. #57
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Barbaria
    Posts
    6,726
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    There is nothing wrong with having CC heavy classes - although Rogues were a little stupid with full-stunlocks. Mage CC has actually gotten nerfed from Cata to MoP, they are effectively back to wrath levels.

    But as you mentioned, making every class CC heavy has resulted in the mess that we have today. As to why a tankly high durability (and now high mobility; they are effectively unkiteable now) class like Warriors need an AoE stun on such a short CD is a mystery.

    The result is classes like mages are being made ever more tankly to compensate for the increase damage taken due to the CC arms race. Rogues ... Given low CD cloak + prep baseline ...
    Warriors have neither high durability or high mobility compared to what other classes bring. High durability look at all these classes with massive health pools, passive damage reductions, and guaranteed outs. Warriors dont have a guaranteed out, we dont have a button that guarantees our survival. On live we get the same damage reduction in D stance that hunters and shadow priests and other classes get 100% of the time with no downside at all. Our health advantage from the Wrath and before era was wiped out, while classes like Warlock get to run around at 550k. High durability, hah. Not in this era of WoW.

    And as for Mobility, you cant call warrior mobility high in a game with druids and monks the way they are now. Hell even the rocket boot mages got us beat. High mobility is having a gap closer, a no CD root and snare break, and a 130% movement speed 100% of the time. And as for unkiteable? Seriously. Play with a mage, hunter, or really any other caster with multiple roots, gap openers, stuns, snares, and other CCs. Or just play with a rogue and have him stick to the warriors back.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Warriors have neither high durability or high mobility compared to what other classes bring. High durability look at all these classes with massive health pools, passive damage reductions, and guaranteed outs. Warriors dont have a guaranteed out, we dont have a button that guarantees our survival. On live we get the same damage reduction in D stance that hunters and shadow priests and other classes get 100% of the time with no downside at all. Our health advantage from the Wrath and before era was wiped out, while classes like Warlock get to run around at 550k. High durability, hah. Not in this era of WoW.
    Second Wind, Die by the Sword, Shield Wall ... etc.

    You are not fragile is all I can say. You are not a Mage who relies on evasion CDs to stay alive. You are not a Rogue who is guaranteed to die in a stun if his trinket is down.

    And as for Mobility, you cant call warrior mobility high in a game with druids and monks the way they are now. Hell even the rocket boot mages got us beat. High mobility is having a gap closer, a no CD root and snare break, and a 130% movement speed 100% of the time. And as for unkiteable? Seriously. Play with a mage, hunter, or really any other caster with multiple roots, gap openers, stuns, snares, and other CCs. Or just play with a rogue and have him stick to the warriors back.
    Charge is a lot better than it used to be. Heroic Leap allows you to reposition yourself at will. Avatar is a root/snare break that boosts your DPS.

    Your mobility is pretty darn good.

    Warriors should not be having an AoE stun on top of all that.

  19. #59
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Barbaria
    Posts
    6,726
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Second Wind, Die by the Sword, Shield Wall ... etc.

    You are not fragile is all I can say. You are not a Mage who relies on evasion CDs to stay alive. You are not a Rogue who is guaranteed to die in a stun if his trinket is down.



    Charge is a lot better than it used to be. Heroic Leap allows you to reposition yourself at will. Avatar is a root/snare break that boosts your DPS.

    Your mobility is pretty darn good.

    Warriors should not be having an AoE stun on top of all that.
    You don't actually PvP do you. 2nd Wind really? Are we talking about duels here. Die by the sword is like evasion, but oh wait you think rogues are still squishy, and shield wall is like Combat Readiness, but oh wait you think rogues are still squishy. You have like the TBC plate mentality, back when it used to mean something, back when it gave you the health advantage they give warlocks now. And I can tell that you dont really pvp, because everyone relies on CDs. Everyone dies in a stun without a CD, if you eat a full deep with no CDs, you're dead. Bye bye. Not just rogues. This is not TBC.

    And fucking lol at the mobility reasoning. That you bring up Avatar, ha. No our mobility is just average. Feral, that pretty darn good, Monk thats pretty darn good, mage thats pretty darn good, these classes that can get out of snares roots or just plain roll over 100 yrds away. Warriors dont even have a passive movement speed increase like every other fucking melee spec or class. We move at 108%, ferals move at 130%, Rogues at 115%, DKs at 115%, we are the melee whose mobility is so superb we can get kited by other melee.

    It's not TBC anymore, time to update your view of the game.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    You don't actually PvP do you. 2nd Wind really? Are we talking about duels here. Die by the sword is like evasion, but oh wait you think rogues are still squishy, and shield wall is like Combat Readiness, but oh wait you think rogues are still squishy. You have like the TBC plate mentality, back when it used to mean something, back when it gave you the health advantage they give warlocks now. And I can tell that you dont really pvp, because everyone relies on CDs. Everyone dies in a stun without a CD, if you eat a full deep with no CDs, you're dead. Bye bye. Not just rogues. This is not TBC.

    And fucking lol at the mobility reasoning. That you bring up Avatar, ha. No our mobility is just average. Feral, that pretty darn good, Monk thats pretty darn good, mage thats pretty darn good, these classes that can get out of snares roots or just plain roll over 100 yrds away. Warriors dont even have a passive movement speed increase like every other fucking melee spec or class. We move at 108%, ferals move at 130%, Rogues at 115%, DKs at 115%, we are the melee whose mobility is so superb we can get kited by other melee.

    It's not TBC anymore, time to update your view of the game.
    We seem to be talking about different things. You are rambling on about "general survivability", I'm talking about durability, i.e. "tankliness".

    Firstly you aren't an "evasive" class. You can take hits. You aren't reliant on CC to avoid taking hits. You are not a "fragile" class. You are a "tankly" class.

    Why a tankly class needs such powerfully CC, is beyond me.

    Secondly don't compare yourself with Druids. Druids are BS. GC over buffed them this expansion because of "Flavour"; shift out of stuff is their calling card he says ... Balance be damned.

    Your charges can be talented to have a 12 sec CD, have 2 charges or stun on impact with a CD of 20 sec. Blizzard has already stated you guys are meant to be the "mobility melee". You have great mobility, that's why your range attacks suck compared to DKs and paladins.
    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-03-30 at 07:55 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •