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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Shirlias View Post
    I'm plaiyng as demo lock and i enjoy my class ( only issue is i the missing "vengance" for tanky build ç_ç ), but also agree with thread starter. Talking about balancing in terms of cc and dr.
    no tank class gets vengeance in pvp that was removed mid cata
    Whether the world's greatest gnats or the world's greatest heroes, you're still only mortal!

  2. #62
    High Overlord
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    I agree with OP.

    PvP used to be my thing, what kept me interested in the game. Now it's like walking through glue. As a healer I expect a lot of CC, at least if the other team has some brains, but this is just stupid. That druid silence thing that sucks you back in and slows you? Come on!

  3. #63
    Dreadlord
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    premades and botting is really and im REALLY annoying me atm..... what are you supposed to do when your put against premade teams time after time after time GGRRRRRRR.......... and don't get me started on the botting sparkling beautiful dancing princesses ;ppp

    Mod Edit: Try to keep the language somewhat clean.
    Last edited by Snuggli; 2013-03-30 at 04:25 PM.
    ........THE WRITING'S ON THE WALL !!!!!

  4. #64
    High Overlord Jazz015's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    We seem to be talking about different things. You are rambling on about "general survivability", I'm talking about durability, i.e. "tankliness".

    Firstly you aren't an "evasive" class. You can take hits. You aren't reliant on CC to avoid taking hits. You are not a "fragile" class. You are a "tankly" class.

    Why a tankly class needs such powerfully CC, is beyond me.

    Secondly don't compare yourself with Druids. Druids are BS. GC over buffed them this expansion because of "Flavour"; shift out of stuff is their calling card he says ... Balance be damned.

    Your charges can be talented to have a 12 sec CD, have 2 charges or stun on impact with a CD of 20 sec. Blizzard has already stated you guys are meant to be the "mobility melee". You have great mobility, that's why your range attacks suck compared to DKs and paladins.
    It's all nice and dandy when you put it like that, by the numbers it appears that warriors have great mobility and should be able to train and sit on everyone at every second of the match if they choose to. No, wrong. Maybe you should take it into your account that for every charge, or gapclosing ability we use, the counterpart is also using one. The classic charge - blink, heroic leap. Then we're off, for atleast 12 seconds. If the mage has nova, the warrior needs to trinket, and he is also snared, by the mages frostarmor. You're talking by the numbers, not by experience. You've clearly never seen how it is being CCchained for an entire match while your healer dies.
    Last one out gets the lights.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz015 View Post
    It's all nice and dandy when you put it like that, by the numbers it appears that warriors have great mobility and should be able to train and sit on everyone at every second of the match if they choose to. No, wrong. Maybe you should take it into your account that for every charge, or gapclosing ability we use, the counterpart is also using one. The classic charge - blink, heroic leap. Then we're off, for atleast 12 seconds. If the mage has nova, the warrior needs to trinket, and he is also snared, by the mages frostarmor. You're talking by the numbers, not by experience. You've clearly never seen how it is being CCchained for an entire match while your healer dies.
    Your class has a weakness against mages - one class. Big deal. Mages get rolled by hunters (who their CC doesn't do much against) and feral Druids (that are virtually immune to their CC).

    I don't like it either but that's the way it is.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Nonetheless, you are creating windows where absolutely no one is allowed to use cc so you can reset all the DR timers. Even when it doesn't come to cooldowns, some classes have so much sustained damage going you really can't allow them to go free for that long.
    And this would be a good thing. You should not always be allowed to keep an opponent CCed. Keep in mind if you CCed him to the point of DR he was already locked out for 10+ seconds, then you wait the 20 some seconds you need and he is CCable again. In this set up you have 10 seconds of CC for every 30 seconds of gameplay IE: this sustained DPS is have 66% up time. Its no where near as bad as you are implying.
    twitch.tv/lerris15

  7. #67
    Not only does CC ruin the game, but the "OMG" buttons (Spells related to divine shield) also ruin the game as well, kinda stupid trying to find the only target that doesn't have a "bubble" in 3's, and don't forget about cooldowns resetting cooldowns (*cough* *cough* huntards) and the fact that most specs/classes aren't allowed in RBGS (at least not preferred).

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Synbaby View Post
    I really think DR should be global. It's ridiculous that you can be CC'd by several players at once until you die. There is pretty much no point in even using a pvp trinket to break a CC when you've got 5+ players all on you, trying to CC you....
    i dont think they should be global..because nothing would die,..ever. and no one wants to see more burst added to compensate.

    i do think that maybe 8s Drs of any type should share..6-5s and mayyybe 2-4 secs like horrors w/ blankets but you'd have to rework VT an UA and things. even that would be weird though against good healers.

    obv though the 5+player sample isnt good reasoning because the game is largely structured around 3v3 as well rbgs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  9. #69
    yeah it's pretty stupid. I watched a r1 hunter stream a couple days ago and he was struggling at 1500 2v1 even though the opponents were probably legally retarded irl. as soon as you get two people who use all their abilities it becomes next to impossible to win. back in tbc (or maybe wotlk I don't quite remember) megatf played naked up to like 1800 as hunter priest, because skill was actually rewarded. now your reward for playing terrible over a long period of time is rewarded with extra rating ...

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by xindralol View Post
    yeah it's pretty stupid. I watched a r1 hunter stream a couple days ago and he was struggling at 1500 2v1 even though the opponents were probably legally retarded irl. as soon as you get two people who use all their abilities it becomes next to impossible to win. back in tbc (or maybe wotlk I don't quite remember) megatf played naked up to like 1800 as hunter priest, because skill was actually rewarded. now your reward for playing terrible over a long period of time is rewarded with extra rating ...
    Yeah that's got to be frustrating. Probably should just scrap arena altogether. IMO it is beyond salvaging and balancing PvP around 3's has been the plague of WoW PvP for quite some time.

    One of the things Blizzard got right was tempering AoE damage. AoE in massive group PvP can really cause serious issues. But somewhere along the way Blizzard lost their way and now you have stupid amounts of AoE CC which has gotten out of hand like Warhammer AoE damage got out of hand.

  11. #71
    Why does everyone hate the PvP so much?

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by whosJakee View Post
    Why does everyone hate the PvP so much?
    Not hate just really really problematic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  13. #73
    Mechagnome Goriq's Avatar
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    In TBC I was too bad to actually see any problems with PvP (and I actually had a lot of fun in PvP back in TBC)
    In WotLK I was pretty happy until ~mid S7, after that the class design was too boring for me.
    After that PvP just got out of hand imo. Cata and MoP are both pretty bad when it comes to PvP.
    In Cata they really overdid it with the "give everything to everyone" and now the game is basically "my cd's are ready, I win".

    That's mostly what I get from BG since I only play arena to get my cap. And 2s are really far from enjoyable.

  14. #74
    Pvp was patched in as an afterthought, you expect it to be balanced?
    At least in the next patch its more orientated toward skill.

  15. #75
    Yeah, MoP has too much cc.

  16. #76
    I think Blizz reprioritised PvE over PvP, they will do the right thing next patch im positive. CC needs to be removed and just scale dmg around players not around a certain arena setting. If anything 3v3 is the most imbalanced thing in game cough godcomp

  17. #77
    Scarab Lord Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Nonetheless, you are creating windows where absolutely no one is allowed to use cc so you can reset all the DR timers. Even when it doesn't come to cooldowns, some classes have so much sustained damage going you really can't allow them to go free for that long.
    I find timing your CC DRs with everyone else's and decide which type of CC works best for a situation to be a far more skillful and smart gameplay than having to beforehand know which CC does not DR the other. It is an outdated mechanic that is next to impossible to learn for a new player in a reasonable manner, without resorting to Google searching, and even then they have to understand that not all CCs are causing the same DRs, which to me is flawed beyond reason.

    I know that StarCraft 2 is nothing like WoW PvP, but I am going to use this example to show that too much CC can break balance far more than the raw strength of a unit. Infestors, which have an ability called Spongal Growth, were OP at the beginning of Wings of Liberty simply because of their ability to lock down masses of units in one place while doing damage to them. A lot of players did also not enjoy being locked down, since it removed any type of skill in microing your units, simply because it was impossible to move them. The lesson the StarCraft 2 team learned from this? That CC can actually be quite damaging to PvP gameplay since it tends to counter the actual skill in being able to time and micro.

    WoW needs to take that lesson to heart as well and make CC used as a way to disrupt combat to create a brief advantage instead of being the heavy annoyance as it is now.
    Last edited by Frozen Death Knight; 2013-04-02 at 11:31 AM.

  18. #78
    Well about shock wave for warr.

    For prot it is the same as before

    For Arms they lost a stun when this xpac started. So this tier is. Pick between the stun you lost or pick bladestorm so no matter what you will not have as much as you had before (do agree the 20 Shock wave was to much)

    and for fury. Well they get a extra stun but it is not like fury is super OP for pvp and that hurts anything that they have another stun

  19. #79
    Blademaster
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    PvP is going to die, too many spell and too many controls

  20. #80
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    There are several issues with PvP to be honest.

    -Too much CC
    -Too many strong instant heals

    And that's just general issues. Enhancement Shamans for example, I personally feel sorry for; all the weaknesses of a melee combined with all the weaknesses of a caster. If anything, I feel they should get the Hunter treatment; a caster, but not 'really'. Unfortunately, we're too far into MoP now; any overhauls that are seriously needed likely won't be seen until the next expansion.
    "If I owned a company, my employees would love me. They’d have huge pictures of me up the walls and in their home, like Lenin." - George Costanza

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