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  1. #81
    Mechagnome
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    I know this sounds hard, but at some point we have to face the ugly truth: WoW PvP is fun, when you're good at it.

  2. #82
    Mechagnome Synbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    i dont think they should be global..because nothing would die,..ever. and no one wants to see more burst added to compensate.

    i do think that maybe 8s Drs of any type should share..6-5s and mayyybe 2-4 secs like horrors w/ blankets but you'd have to rework VT an UA and things. even that would be weird though against good healers.

    obv though the 5+player sample isnt good reasoning because the game is largely structured around 3v3 as well rbgs.
    I'm talking more rbgs/regular bgs about the global cc. I run bgs mostly as a healer, and let me give you an example of my bgs last night..
    Spriests/Discs/Warlocks seem like the fotm so last night this was me healing in bgs: silience>fear>fear>horrified>charmed>feared>stunned(pet)>feared>silience>feared>charmed>ho rrifed>fear>fear....then dead

    No one should be completely CC'd for their entire health come on. I can trinket out of one of these CCs, bubble(on my pally), but those have cooldowns. So how is it balanced if anyone(dps or heals) can be completely CC'd? It's just getting ridiculous at this point.
    What doesn't destroy us, only makes us stranger

  3. #83
    When I want to game competitively, I want equal ground and simplicity. This is why I play FPS games, RTS games and fucking tic-tac-toe. Everyone has the same power or at least can make the same decisions on what sort of powers they want. In WoW first you need to grind insane gear, then each class is so complex it becomes more of a rock papers scissors match... then add in arena comps and more and more abilities and complexity every expansion... this is what you get... a disaster.

    They need to simplify their classes and remove the gear bullshit before PVP gets back to being good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    what can i say enh shaman here, worst control in the game, worst survivability in the game,
    damn i almost can hear enemies when im entering arena saing : "enh shaman, easy win, yay"
    tbh i can hear it in any pvp movie
    Imo enhancement is a decent bechmark for how all classes should be.
    It's almost always the wrong argument to compare yourself to the highest DPS specs out there. "Middle of the pack" is actually where everyone is supposed to be. -Ghostcrawler
    DPS Tuning
    •Yes, this is a roller coaster. Our process is to try things out and iterate if we don't like them. If the churn offends you, just hang on for another week or two.

  5. #85
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    When I want to game competitively, I want equal ground and simplicity. This is why I play FPS games
    Then I think you're better sticking with FPS games; one of the most recurring features in the history of RPG games is 'Character Progression', usually in the form of gear. WoW is, alas, an RPG.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 02:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    what can i say enh shaman here, worst control in the game, worst survivability in the game,
    damn i almost can hear enemies when im entering arena saing : "enh shaman, easy win, yay"
    tbh i can hear it in any pvp movie
    Hell, let's not beat around the bush. In Arena, I feel that way even when i'm matched with a Resto Shaman; they are, to me, the most poor class in the game when it comes to defensive skills.
    "Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you." - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan View Post
    I know this sounds hard, but at some point we have to face the ugly truth: WoW PvP is fun, when you're good at it.
    Got a point but the frustration gets worse the more players there are, cc, instants, silences and crap flying everywhere.
    It's almost always the wrong argument to compare yourself to the highest DPS specs out there. "Middle of the pack" is actually where everyone is supposed to be. -Ghostcrawler
    DPS Tuning
    •Yes, this is a roller coaster. Our process is to try things out and iterate if we don't like them. If the churn offends you, just hang on for another week or two.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    You have great mobility, that's why your range attacks suck compared to DKs and paladins.
    Warriors have great range; that's not the same as mobility. With Clemency and fully charged Hand of Freedom, Retribution moves at will.

    I agree with the poster above that DPS shaman are very good benchmarks for where PvP should go: distinct strengths and weaknesses. Casters need fewer escape mechanisms and mobile options; melee need fewer lockout/lockdown opportunities.

  8. #88
    I think a "personal" dr is good idea. So the first CC used against you is 100%, 2nd is 50% as effective, 3rd half as much again, 4th is useless. That's for *all* CC, not just XYZ class of CC.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    When I want to game competitively, I want equal ground and simplicity. This is why I play FPS games, RTS games and fucking tic-tac-toe. Everyone has the same power or at least can make the same decisions on what sort of powers they want. In WoW first you need to grind insane gear, then each class is so complex it becomes more of a rock papers scissors match... then add in arena comps and more and more abilities and complexity every expansion... this is what you get... a disaster.

    They need to simplify their classes and remove the gear bullshit before PVP gets back to being good.
    Wow is and will always be a PvE-focused game with some PvP added in. They're not going to reimbalance and re-vamp several classes again just because a minority wants something else.

  10. #90
    Warchief Henkdejager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    what can i say enh shaman here, worst control in the game, worst survivability in the game,
    damn i almost can hear enemies when im entering arena saing : "enh shaman, easy win, yay"
    tbh i can hear it in any pvp movie
    Thats why i am rerolling to warlock..
    Stuff

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Synbaby View Post
    I'm talking more rbgs/regular bgs about the global cc. I run bgs mostly as a healer, and let me give you an example of my bgs last night..
    Spriests/Discs/Warlocks seem like the fotm so last night this was me healing in bgs: silience>fear>fear>horrified>charmed>feared>stunned(pet)>feared>silience>feared>charmed>ho rrifed>fear>fear....then dead

    No one should be completely CC'd for their entire health come on. I can trinket out of one of these CCs, bubble(on my pally), but those have cooldowns. So how is it balanced if anyone(dps or heals) can be completely CC'd? It's just getting ridiculous at this point.
    It's kind of funny. Maybe a year or two ago I would have told you that this was completely exaggerated and that you need to L2P. But I can say now with certainty that the chain above is in no way an exaggeration and not anecdotal either. This is very much indicative of PvP in WoW today.

    On a side note: I decided to play some SWTOR PvP and I was surprised how much better I enjoyed PvP in that game. Big Stuns are on semi long cool downs, there is no blanket silences only interrupts and interrupts only block the ability not the whole entire 'school', Universal DR on CC (except roots). There was AoE CC which I hate but at least they were only disorients which break on damage. Overall I think I found my new PvP MMO fix.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Synbaby View Post
    I'm talking more rbgs/regular bgs about the global cc. I run bgs mostly as a healer, and let me give you an example of my bgs last night..
    Spriests/Discs/Warlocks seem like the fotm so last night this was me healing in bgs: silience>fear>fear>horrified>charmed>feared>stunned(pet)>feared>silience>feared>charmed>ho rrifed>fear>fear....then dead

    No one should be completely CC'd for their entire health come on. I can trinket out of one of these CCs, bubble(on my pally), but those have cooldowns. So how is it balanced if anyone(dps or heals) can be completely CC'd? It's just getting ridiculous at this point.
    The funny thing to me is that you actually needed to be cc`ed that long until you died. Those are 14 in a chain, which probably last an average of 3 seconds and I bet you got off one or two heals inbetween, so I dont really see the problem here. Also, those were probably two or more people chain cc`ing you, just judging from the different cc abilities that you listed. I really dont see the problem here. As it is right now, healers are already at a point where they are almost at god status, and its still very early in the expansion. I am not entirely sure how the next changes of 65% dmg reduction for everyone baseline and then wearing a pve healer set might affect things, but this could mean even more power for healers come patch 5.3 .

    I know that cc is probably too much at this point, but on the other hand its the only real chance to properly prevent a healer from keeping a good amount of people topped off. I am aware that one healer alone will not always make such a difference when theres good geared ppl teaming up on him, but put two healers in a spot and you need an army to stop them from healing each other and everyone around them. Just take a look at rated battlegrounds and how things usually work out there. Its almost a snore fest (depending on the map) because almost nothing ever dies if they stay in healing range and the other team doesnt line up properly on single targets. I dont mind healers at all, but the way they are balanced right now, its just insane, especially when theres so many instant abilities that still heal for very large amounts plus all the procs that add healing ontop of them or trigger some hots and damage reductions etc.

    Yeah, the cc should be toned down. Definately, but so do healers, or at least instant abilities of healers. I am all for a reduction of cc, in duration, maybe longer DR or even immunity timers per cc ability and probably less instant cc for casters and more stuff that has casttime. But only if healers will have to actually cast most of their heals and make the choice between trying to get a heal off, or move away from being pain-trained. For that to work, melee classes need to get adjusted aswell though. Stripping them from ranged cc abilities and giving them less gap closers, otherwise the game would be melee dominated.

  13. #93
    Scarab Lord Arrashi's Avatar
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    I must say that im pretty much without hope in blizzard curing pvp now. Basically every change they were introducing since cata led to more and more imbalanace.
    They dont controll damage.
    They don't controll healing.
    They dont controll CC.
    Battlegrounds wchich used to be one of my favourite aspects of game in tbc/wotlk/ and even cata are simply unbearable. 90% of matches involve 1 team mercilesly rolling other one without real fighting. Sheer amount of CC is agonizing being stunned, feared rooted then knocked back into snare followed by disorient is simply sick joke.
    New talent system basically bloated game with burst cooldowns, absurd aoe CC, and more "you can't do shit bro" abilities then ever.
    I never was "lolblizzsucksGGnoobz" kind of guy. That's why i wasnt ranting in cata. I was waiting for mop hoping that blizz will for once take they time and make right decisions, to make pvp actually fun again. They menaged to make everything that was bad in cata even worse.
    I play mainly as restoration druid, and i played this character ever since TBC. In mop i usually face 2 scenario's in pvp.
    1 - Me/my target get bursted down faster than i can react/heal him
    2 - My group members simply dont need healing due they own self-heals and massive amount of CC, and i feel more like mobile TF2 dispenser that refillls they health between combats and give them soda.
    If that wasnt bad enough the gear diffrence between veterans and fresh characters if bigger than ever. I often time see fresh lvl 90 getting one-shotted.
    What is saddest is that even when blizz seems to release content faster, they care more about providing us yet another daily quest hub instead of releasing one fully pvp oriented patch. Just one goddamn patch is that really too much to ask ?

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I must say that im pretty much without hope in blizzard curing pvp now. Basically every change they were introducing since cata led to more and more imbalanace.
    They dont controll damage.
    They don't controll healing.
    They dont controll CC.
    Battlegrounds wchich used to be one of my favourite aspects of game in tbc/wotlk/ and even cata are simply unbearable. 90% of matches involve 1 team mercilesly rolling other one without real fighting. Sheer amount of CC is agonizing being stunned, feared rooted then knocked back into snare followed by disorient is simply sick joke.
    New talent system basically bloated game with burst cooldowns, absurd aoe CC, and more "you can't do shit bro" abilities then ever.
    I never was "lolblizzsucksGGnoobz" kind of guy. That's why i wasnt ranting in cata. I was waiting for mop hoping that blizz will for once take they time and make right decisions, to make pvp actually fun again. They menaged to make everything that was bad in cata even worse.
    I play mainly as restoration druid, and i played this character ever since TBC. In mop i usually face 2 scenario's in pvp.
    1 - Me/my target get bursted down faster than i can react/heal him
    2 - My group members simply dont need healing due they own self-heals and massive amount of CC, and i feel more like mobile TF2 dispenser that refillls they health between combats and give them soda.
    If that wasnt bad enough the gear diffrence between veterans and fresh characters if bigger than ever. I often time see fresh lvl 90 getting one-shotted.
    What is saddest is that even when blizz seems to release content faster, they care more about providing us yet another daily quest hub instead of releasing one fully pvp oriented patch. Just one goddamn patch is that really too much to ask ?
    I hear you bro. Last night my wife needed help finishing her legendary quest which was to win 2 BG's. Took us a little bit to win both but all I came away with was full of loathing and disgust.

    I guess we will have to wait at least of year and see what Blizzard plans to do with PvP since there are not going to be any serious changes till next expansion. If nothing serious is done to make things more palpable I believe that will be it for me.

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