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  1. #1

    [Balance] 5.3 Force of Nature

    Thought we need a new thread to discuss these guys :P

    They seem interesting now:
    1. No GCD invoked
    2. You need a target to summon
    3. They don't have a targeting circle anymore (think Mirror Images summoning YEY!)
    4. They have 3 charges with 20sec recharge each (total still 1min)
    5. They cast instant roots to any and all targets you have threat with once summoned
    6. Do NOT scale with any eclipse. Scale with Intel (don't know if they scale with pure mastery buffs) procs and NG
    7. Hit about 9.5/6k and crit about 19k with Wrath (ilvl 505)
    8. /w NG 9 casts (despawn before 10th flies), w/o NG 6 casts (despawn on 7th cast) 20.65% haste
    9. Haste scaling is not dynamic but Intellect seems dynamic from my small samples, although there is some delay (slower for gain of procs, faster when they drop)
    Edit: 10. They don't have a pet bar any more. Will attack the target you had when they were summoned until they register your new target from your attacks.

    Posts your thoughts here since we seem to have hijacked both the T15 BiS as well as the Resto treants threads :P
    Last edited by Juvencus; 2013-03-27 at 03:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Yeah probably good if we funnel the discussion into its own thread.

    I'm still worried about treants scaling with multiple targets (or lack thereof). Still, it's early in the PTR and there's a possibility for Blizzard to tweak FoN in our favour.

  3. #3
    Having at least 1 available every 20sec, could it potentially make them viable movement DPS?

  4. #4
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Having at least 1 available every 20sec, could it potentially make them viable movement DPS?
    That's a good point, the benefit of the talent will persist through movement. Incarnation and SotF would have a reduced benefit from not hardcasting, but FoN would still do their full damage to the one target. So you're right on that one.

    I'm still not sure how viable they would be for this tier though. Single-target fights: Jin'rohk, Ji-kun (if not platforming), Durumu (mostly), Iron Qon, and I'm not sure about Lei Shen. Of those single-target fights, FoN would be more viable if there's a lot of movement involved; conversely, if a damage modifier is in use, then Incarnation will most likely benefit more.

    We'll have to see what happens as the PTR goes on!

  5. #5
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    With the apparent loss of beam vortex I shall be changing to mighty bash and this FoN change has complemented the loss of kiting control quite nicely for PvP. I hated the reticle placement of FoN for the longest time as it served little purpose outside of eating traps in arena and made the ability clunky overall. Having instant roots back every 20 seconds with a bit of damage will be very helpful.

  6. #6
    I effing love this change. I just hope them treants have half a brain and don't spam root when I need to do deeps.

    Testing this on PTR and they always seem to root 3 times, ALWAYS.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sainiunit View Post
    I effing love this change. I just hope them treants have half a brain and don't spam root when I need to do deeps.

    Testing this on PTR and they always seem to root 3 times, ALWAYS.
    Yes but it's instant and they only cast it when summoned (as far as I know). I believe they did that in order to put some benefit in the downtime pets have before start casting the moment they are summoned and also balance pvp so you don't spam roots on everything.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Yes but it's instant and they only cast it when summoned (as far as I know). I believe they did that in order to put some benefit in the downtime pets have before start casting the moment they are summoned and also balance pvp so you don't spam roots on everything.
    Yeah.
    I was just noting it since I was playing around with it on PTR.

    I was using it on test dummies and they would cast roots 3 times. I don't want them to CC, I want them to pew pew. I guess it really can not be helped.

    Another weird behavior I noticed is that the FoN walked up to melee range of the target if it's rooting (WTF?).

  9. #9
    If they can't cast, they'll run up to the target. This includes being on GCD.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sainiunit View Post
    Yeah.
    I was just noting it since I was playing around with it on PTR.

    I was using it on test dummies and they would cast roots 3 times. I don't want them to CC, I want them to pew pew. I guess it really can not be helped.

    Another weird behavior I noticed is that the FoN walked up to melee range of the target if it's rooting (WTF?).
    I just logged in now and there was a new patch to download. Their behavior is drastically different from what I experienced the first time.... There were times where they run in melee and spammed roots on the lvl90 dummy (was in combat with 2x boss and 1x 90 dummys)

  11. #11
    It's fun summoning them when UVLS procs with NG up. Almost feels like a 3rd dot applied on only one target, and it can stack up to three times.

    They would crit for ~20k x8 (NG + UVLS up) each tree.

  12. #12
    Just doing more testing on them and noticed the same behaviour change you did Juv.

    Also they don't scale with Nature's Vigil's 10% damage increase or take on the healing part either.

    They scale with Heart of the Wild though.
    Never let anyone doubt you

  13. #13
    Wow! This is a terrific change! Assuming they get their AI down, I'm going to love this! Instant roots on a 20sec cd with 3 charges. More or less a permanent pet assuming it lives. The ability to use just 1 at a time or all 3. Looks like we might finally see treants in WoW again.*

  14. #14
    Was using this on a duel just for the hell of it. Warrior just bladestormed it to death. -_-

    Wasn't there a thing where pets takes reduced damage from AoE effect?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sainiunit View Post
    Was using this on a duel just for the hell of it. Warrior just bladestormed it to death. -_-

    Wasn't there a thing where pets takes reduced damage from AoE effect?
    Maybe bladestorm follows the rules of starfall that it's more of a targeted aoe than a real one. Anyway that protection is mostly for PvE damage so they don't lose DPS value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yendig View Post
    Wow! This is a terrific change! Assuming they get their AI down, I'm going to love this! Instant roots on a 20sec cd with 3 charges. More or less a permanent pet assuming it lives. The ability to use just 1 at a time or all 3. Looks like we might finally see treants in WoW again.*
    You can summon as many as you like each time (and recharge cd allows) without GCD.

    Theoretically you can have 1 permanent Treant throughout the fight as they last 15sec with 20sec recharge time but you need to keep an eye on it.

  16. #16
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    The problems with it being better for movement DPS is that if it's standing where you were, and you're moving because of an obvious environment effect, your treant is probably now dead.

    And having a treant start out with an instant entangling roots is pretty worthless. Resto got swiftmend, and we get.. roots? Come on.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Maybe bladestorm follows the rules of starfall that it's more of a targeted aoe than a real one. Anyway that protection is mostly for PvE damage so they don't lose DPS value.



    You can summon as many as you like each time (and recharge cd allows) without GCD.

    Theoretically you can have 1 permanent Treant throughout the fight as they last 15sec with 20sec recharge time but you need to keep an eye on it.

    You could probs make a weak aura to track how long it has left to live then resummon one like 2/3 secs before it dies. I just hope they will be good to use. i miss my treants

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    The problems with it being better for movement DPS is that if it's standing where you were, and you're moving because of an obvious environment effect, your treant is probably now dead.

    And having a treant start out with an instant entangling roots is pretty worthless. Resto got swiftmend, and we get.. roots? Come on.
    I dont see the insta roots as a bad thing for pvp. yeah there is a DR on it.. but you can get a trent out for a free root and then run off, as the person comes closer root again + its abit of kite damage. ofc incarnation still probs be ontop but we will have to see ^^

  18. #18
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyzhi View Post
    You could probs make a weak aura to track how long it has left to live then resummon one like 2/3 secs before it dies. I just hope they will be good to use. i miss my treants



    I dont see the insta roots as a bad thing for pvp. yeah there is a DR on it.. but you can get a trent out for a free root and then run off, as the person comes closer root again + its abit of kite damage. ofc incarnation still probs be ontop but we will have to see ^^
    Sure it's nice for PVP, but they already had roots on their bars, and I don't think the issue with summon-cast lag was really breaking in PVP where is it makes Treants pretty horrible in PvE, so I'm not sure why it ends up with a PVP boon.

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  19. #19
    The Patient Quackie's Avatar
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    Would be nice to see FON become useful again. I miss my woody buddies.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sainiunit View Post
    Was using this on a duel just for the hell of it. Warrior just bladestormed it to death. -_-

    Wasn't there a thing where pets takes reduced damage from AoE effect?
    Pets take full AoE damage in PvP, all of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

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