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  1. #41
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    I don't think there was ever a problem with the haste scaling *at low levels*. The problem was if you had enough haste to push their cast below the GCD, then it started scaling negatively. Somone needs to test with lust/meta or the Shado Pan trinket might even be enough. You should see 10+ casts.

  2. #42
    I did a few tests with all the haste I could gather; NG, GCD cap, Heroism, Meta Gem and the VP trinket all active. The first test was failed, I hope because of user error. I stopped attacking the Target dummy and my treants began to follow me around. The second two tests that I did with all the Haste active, The treants did as they were told, they stood and casted for their entire duration. Unfortunately I am a dumb boomkin, and didn't write down the number of casts between each test, so I can't tell you how many wraths they cast during each duration, but my main focus was to see if they would follow me.
    Minituk Raider in TF

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    I don't think there was ever a problem with the haste scaling *at low levels*. The problem was if you had enough haste to push their cast below the GCD, then it started scaling negatively. Somone needs to test with lust/meta or the Shado Pan trinket might even be enough. You should see 10+ casts.
    My bad, I thought it was an across the board thing. I'll go pick up a meta and test.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-21 at 08:16 PM ----------

    Ok, still broken. Just tried with NG+Meta and the treants get off 1-2 casts then just start following me around for the rest of their duration.

    NOT FIXED IN 5.3

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-21 at 08:34 PM ----------

    Behavior seems very odd.

    With just NG and around 50-55% haste they seem to work fine. Get off 9 casts consistently, no pauses, no movement. If a meta procs while a treant is currently out, OR you cast a treant while the meta buff is up... all treants start to bug out and wander around aimlessly. Seeing anywhere from 2-8 casts at 70%+ haste depending on how much they wander.

    It also seems to happen with a few other buffs that don't affect haste. I've had them bug out and wander for a few seconds after getting trinket procs from Cha-Ye/Hydra, though that seems to happen a lot less frequently than the meta gem.

    If I had to guess, their scaling is fine. The issue occurs when they are updated for procs and I'm guessing it somewhat resets their AI temporarily. Some intern botched the dynamic updating code. For that matter, are they even supposed to update dynamically or are they supposed to snapshot on cast? If the latter, that's probably the issue; they're trying to update a snapshot on each proc and that's what's bugging them out.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-21 at 08:40 PM ----------

    They randomly switch targets, too. Three target dummies, cast one on each dummy, target a fourth dummy myself. They each get off 1-2 casts on their respective dummies, then they randomly choose one and all three start attacking it. That could be an issue on a lot of fights where you want them to attack a specific mob but they randomly jump to another one.

  4. #44
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    They changed it so guardian type pets (spirit wolves/gargoyle/treants) update their stats with yours dynamically (ALL STATS). This was partially done so you weren't so grossly penalized if you spawned these pets a split second after lust. Someone needs to tweet the crab and pester him.

  5. #45
    Treants now update dynamically with haste.

    The "fix" appears to have been an increase to their casting time from test since the problem only happens if you push their casting time below 1.5 seconds. Unfortunately you can still do that with NG + Meta gem or lust.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by kendro1200 View Post
    It's not hard to code them, nor is it really hard to fix them. The issue is that Blizzard doesn't care enough to fix them the right way, and they don't have the time to fix them the way they want to fix them. One important thing you always have to remember with Blizzard coding is that often times its done a very particular way, not because it's the right way, or the most efficient way, but because they're too stubborn to do it any other way.
    And you know that how? I've been coding for 15 years+ and so many times I've seen clients complaining about "... but but this is so simple to fix you just need to do [fill in here your reasoning]..." when in fact it could take an entire overhaul of an outdated architecture and require not only a good chunk of time refactoring old code but also countless hours of proper testing. But sure, maybe you know a lot about their internal architecture/design and development/qa cycles and thus ur reason to call them stubborn. As much as I hate how they haven't fixed this issue it could be just a stupid bug that a developer didn't catch - or - they just ran out of time/resources to fix it for the 5.3 release and it's a known bug that they hope to fix soon. Or sure they could just ignore the entire community and acknowledge that its "working as intended".

  7. #47
    Did somebody already tweet GC that his fix still isn't enough?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    Did somebody already tweet GC that his fix still isn't enough?
    I have. He hasnt responded.

  9. #49
    I was looking forward to treants . Now they will get patched tonight and dirty euro Lorgok will again slay all of the meters. Not that they're useful on many fights :x

  10. #50
    Looks like they got hotfixes in, anyone test it?
    Force of Nature now summons Treants that have 40% of the Druid's health, up from 10%.
    Balance Druid Treants: Cast time for Wrath has been increased to 2.5 seconds, up from 2.0 seconds, and damage dealt has been increased by 25%.

    Or was it the earlier fix that doesnt work to well?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by artem123 View Post
    Looks like they got hotfixes in, anyone test it?
    Force of Nature now summons Treants that have 40% of the Druid's health, up from 10%.
    Balance Druid Treants: Cast time for Wrath has been increased to 2.5 seconds, up from 2.0 seconds, and damage dealt has been increased by 25%.

    Or was it the earlier fix that doesnt work to well?
    Still very much broken. There's also an issue with their new AI as far as targeting goes.

    Let's say you have four targets, A B C D

    Treant 1 attacks A
    Treant 2 attacks B
    Treant 3 attacks C
    You attack 4

    They will all get off 1-2 casts on their target, then randomly they will all clump up together on a target, such as B. They don't attack what you're attacking and they don't attack what you tell them to attack when you summon them. They seem to have a mind of their own, but a hive mind (they all like to group up on something). This makes them very clunky for situations where you need them to target a specific mob because they don't.

    All in all extremely disappointed and will be sticking with Incarnation for the time being, which sucks because I love treants.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 01:48 AM ----------

    For anyone curious as to what happens, scroll about 2/3rds through to see how their AI reacts with 97% haste.

    http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=119qjw2&s=5

  12. #52
    Serejai. It stopped attacking because you werent attacking. They attack solely based off of you now.[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 02:09 AM ----------

    Edit: And Im not saying they are fixed, but that is the reason that yours acted that way.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by moveth View Post
    Serejai. It stopped attacking because you werent attacking. They attack solely based off of you now.[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 02:09 AM ----------

    Edit: And Im not saying they are fixed, but that is the reason that yours acted that way.
    That's not true at all. As you can see in the first two sets, they cast just fine even though I'm not. The third one was a fluke so ignore that. The fourth was using my meta proc and they immediately started running around despite that I was still attacking.

  14. #54
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    They're still having issues - problem occurs at 1.5 second Wrath casts (66.66% haste). You can't get that with NG, but you can with the meta active and 10289 breakpoint (9391 haste to be exact). With NG and the meta it's pretty much guaranteed. Looks like we wont be using FoN for tonight at least.

  15. #55
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    This is such an easy fix, just change the cast from Wrath to Starfire and make it a 3 second cast.

    Also the HP buff hotfix scares me, are they dieing to random raid damage?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    This is such an easy fix, just change the cast from Wrath to Starfire and make it a 3 second cast.

    Also the HP buff hotfix scares me, are they dieing to random raid damage?
    Mine don't seem to take AOE damage at all. I think the HP buff was for PvP reasons.

  17. #57
    They seem to do 4-5% overall dmg in raid. Does anyone know approx how much Inc adds overall, on single target without gimmicks.

  18. #58
    They felt buggy as well when all my stuff was proccing, specially with my VP haste trinket + NG + meta... Won't be using them anytime soon...

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Miscam View Post
    They seem to do 4-5% overall dmg in raid. Does anyone know approx how much Inc adds overall, on single target without gimmicks.
    this would be far higher if they didn't bug out with gcd cap and occasionally trinket procs

  20. #60
    Check hotfixes this morning and be pleasantly surprised. Has anyone found an issue with bosses randomly targeting them/possibly taunting the trees? I saw the boss targeting them a lot this weeks raid.

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