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  1. #1
    Field Marshal
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    Guardian druids and crit/exp

    Ok, so i am struggling to find this information atm.

    here is my druid: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Bytem/advanced

    is it worth me dropping a bit of crit in order to get the 15% hard cap expertise?
    (my crit is roughly 44% in bear form)

  2. #2
    In short, yes. Hit and expertise cap > crit. You are standing in front of the boss when tanking, if your attacks don't land you won't get any rage, which in turn will be less dodge/heal for you. Threat shouldn't be a problem, but it can be if you miss attacks when tank swapping for debuffs/stacks.

    Crit has reduced value if you are not capped on hit and expertise. If you can reach cap, do it.

  3. #3
    Just a tip dont reforge anything right now jsut change hand entchant from sha kit to expertise and cahnge the weapongem to 320 experise. you will have 5040 expertise that should be enough.

    maybe change some other gems and entchant aswell. for more crit but for the expertise just go with what i told you and you are fine

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kugs View Post
    In short, yes. Hit and expertise cap > crit. You are standing in front of the boss when tanking, if your attacks don't land you won't get any rage, which in turn will be less dodge/heal for you. Threat shouldn't be a problem, but it can be if you miss attacks when tank swapping for debuffs/stacks.

    Crit has reduced value if you are not capped on hit and expertise. If you can reach cap, do it.

    If I remember correct Crit is stronger for RPS than Hit/Exp. Hit and Exp will allow you to generate constant rage and will be better for DPS.

    BTT: Like Kugs said aim for the 7,5% Hit and 15% Expertise.

    Hit/ExP > Stamina (until you/your healers think its enough) > Crit

    Try to change your second trinket because the vial is actually not so good. If you have one use a stamina trinket. You shouldn't gem for stamina. If you use a stamina-trinket and the letherworker Stamina Ench, you will not need any further stamina. So dont use any other stamina Enchants. There is a Agi/Crit Ench for your Legs and a Exp-Ench for your hands.

    Red: Exp/Crit or Exp
    Blue: Hit/Crit or Hit
    Yellow: Crit or Crit/Wk,Hit

    The later if you're not hit-/expcaped.

    This should work fine for any Content unless you're going to play cutting edge.
    "Pathes emerge , by walking them."

  5. #5
    I actually did some math on this, and I found that the optimal value is around 12-13% Expertise and putting the rest of the points into Crit, rather than hard capping Expertise. This gives you both the highest DPS and Rage generation.

    Personally, I do gem for Stamina because I don't have a Stam trinket. I run with Bad Juju and Blades of Renataki and they're substantial aids to DPS, particularly when using Heart of the Wild for a strong opening burst, as well as survivability in the form of extra crit and dodge chance. I could get away with running less Stamina and more Crit, but I found that on high-damage fights I was getting too low too often. Plus, we've had to pug healers, and when you're taking someone whose job is to keep you alive when he's running Iron Qon or Lei Shen for the first time, you need all the health you can get.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...razet/advanced

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    I actually did some math on this, and I found that the optimal value is around 12-13% Expertise and putting the rest of the points into Crit, rather than hard capping Expertise. This gives you both the highest DPS and Rage generation.

    Personally, I do gem for Stamina because I don't have a Stam trinket. I run with Bad Juju and Blades of Renataki and they're substantial aids to DPS, particularly when using Heart of the Wild for a strong opening burst, as well as survivability in the form of extra crit and dodge chance. I could get away with running less Stamina and more Crit, but I found that on high-damage fights I was getting too low too often. Plus, we've had to pug healers, and when you're taking someone whose job is to keep you alive when he's running Iron Qon or Lei Shen for the first time, you need all the health you can get.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...razet/advanced
    not doubting you mathskills but once you get the RoR trinket, beeing hit and exp cap gives you more dps and dps than 13% exp. crit gets better the more exp and hit you have.

  7. #7
    Warchief
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    Quote Originally Posted by allevia View Post
    is it worth me dropping a bit of crit in order to get the 15% hard cap expertise?
    Yes !!!!!!!!


    You can make up some of that lost crit by switching your stam enchant on your cloak with crit, agility on your bracers and the agility/crit leg enchants. There's no need for the stam enchants, especially since you seem to just be running LFR's and 5 man heroics at the moment.
    Last edited by rated; 2013-06-11 at 10:39 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    not doubting you mathskills but once you get the RoR trinket, beeing hit and exp cap gives you more dps and dps than 13% exp. crit gets better the more exp and hit you have.
    Why on earth would you run with Rune of Reorigination as a Guardian Druid?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    Why on earth would you run with Rune of Reorigination as a Guardian Druid?
    Because it's a Guardians best in slot trinket.

    You should probably do some research on Guardians @ http://theincbear.com/
    Last edited by rated; 2013-06-11 at 10:51 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    Why on earth would you run with Rune of Reorigination as a Guardian Druid?
    Cause its the best defensiv and offensive trinket for druids. And there are not many trinkets to chose. There are absolutely now def trinkets, vial and jikuns are both crap, the stam one from leishen is quite nice but since you dont need stam in 10m anymore. the use effect is really nice on jikun and tortos. but you dont need it on jikun on tortos maybe.

    There are 3-4 trinkets to chose from depending if you raid heroic or nh.

    Shadopan hit/agiprocc
    Renatakis.
    Juju
    RoR

    With RoR and decent gear (around 525 so not that hard to get) and juju/renatakis you will reach over 103% crit. So everything you do will crit except the 25% melee that will be glancing. With the mastery buff in 5.3 RoR got even stronger defensively. Since you will keep more mastery now.

  11. #11
    I actually did some math on this, and I found that the optimal value is around 12-13% Expertise and putting the rest of the points into Crit, rather than hard capping Expertise. This gives you both the highest DPS and Rage generation.
    Errrr.....what?

    Expertise is better than Crit for DPS all the way to the 15% cap. It's slightly worse for average RPS, but makes up for that with consistency which is substantially more valuable.

    Personally, I do gem for Stamina because I don't have a Stam trinket. I run with Bad Juju and Blades of Renataki and they're substantial aids to DPS, particularly when using Heart of the Wild for a strong opening burst, as well as survivability in the form of extra crit and dodge chance. I could get away with running less Stamina and more Crit, but I found that on high-damage fights I was getting too low too often. Plus, we've had to pug healers, and when you're taking someone whose job is to keep you alive when he's running Iron Qon or Lei Shen for the first time, you need all the health you can get.
    Stamina from gear is all you need for any normal mode regardless if it's 10 or 25, and almost all heroic 10s. You will probably want extra Stamina for heroic 25s though. If that's not the case then either you or your healers are doing something horribly, horribly, horribly wrong.

    Renataki is great for HotW burst, yes. Juju is ok. The DR curve on Dodge is so terrible that it's hardly worth mentioning at all. Especially when it comes to trinket procs.

    Why on earth would you run with Rune of Reorigination as a Guardian Druid?
    ......

    No offense, but I can't tell if you're serious.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    ......

    No offense, but I can't tell if you're serious.
    OK. Silly question. Are you advising to run a suboptimal build so that you can get a boost from RoR at some random time? And if you did make Crit the stat that was buffed, wouldn't you go way over Crit hard cap and waste the lion's share of the buff? I would think at the very least, you would want Haste to be the stat that was buffed so it didn't go to waste.

  13. #13
    Are you advising to run a suboptimal build
    Can you elaborate?

    And if you did make Crit the stat that was buffed, wouldn't you go way over Crit hard cap and waste the lion's share of the buff?
    Only at the highest gear levels would you go over the Crit hardcap by itself. Before that you'd have to combine it with a Renataki proc to go over. Even then it's still the best RPS and DPS trinket by a pretty big margin.

    I would think at the very least, you would want Haste to be the stat that was buffed so it didn't go to waste.
    Would require sacking a ton of passive Crit, not to mention being a huge DPS loss.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    OK. Silly question. Are you advising to run a suboptimal build so that you can get a boost from RoR at some random time? And if you did make Crit the stat that was buffed, wouldn't you go way over Crit hard cap and waste the lion's share of the buff? I would think at the very least, you would want Haste to be the stat that was buffed so it didn't go to waste.
    WTF, you want crit why on earth would you want haste? in terms of dps and rps crit is the best stat and yes you will be over hardcapp maybe with another trinket proc, but still everything crit having alot of Rage to spend ist far better than 2-3 more autoattacks but with 0 crits.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Can you elaborate?
    Most DPS classes min-max RoR by having the two stats they want boosted slightly lower than the third stat. In our case, we might have Critical Strike at 6999, Haste at 6999, and Mastery at 7000. Then when it procs, Crit and Haste get boosted to 14,000.

    There's a big problem with that for Guardians: we get a multiplier in Bear Form to the Crit and Haste that we get from our gear. In order to get the snapshot to work properly, we would need to run with abnormally low levels of our key Rage stats and make up for it with RoR procs. And since it's on the RPPM system, you never know exactly when that's going to happen.

  16. #16
    Most DPS classes min-max RoR by having the two stats they want boosted slightly lower than the third stat. In our case, we might have Critical Strike at 6999, Haste at 6999, and Mastery at 7000. Then when it procs, Crit and Haste get boosted to 14,000.

    There's a big problem with that for Guardians: we get a multiplier in Bear Form to the Crit and Haste that we get from our gear. In order to get the snapshot to work properly, we would need to run with abnormally low levels of our key Rage stats and make up for it with RoR procs. And since it's on the RPPM system, you never know exactly when that's going to happen.
    I see. However that's not actually what you want to do as a Guardian. Since we prefer Crit over everything, everyone's stats will be stacked extremely in favour of Crit. This is fine, since the more Crit you actually have, the smaller the bonus gained from RoR, which means more room before sailing over the hardcap of 103%.

    Even though you're artificially deflating the bonus, it's still miles ahead of any RPS proc from any other trinket. Bloodlust is the only thing that even remotely comes close, but you don't want to use that with RoR since it'll end up being wasted stats if they proc together.

    If you were to use it like any other DPS class, you'd have massive amounts of wasted stats. However just because that's how DPS classes use it, doesn't mean that's how we use it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    Most DPS classes min-max RoR by having the two stats they want boosted slightly lower than the third stat. In our case, we might have Critical Strike at 6999, Haste at 6999, and Mastery at 7000. Then when it procs, Crit and Haste get boosted to 14,000.
    Did i miss the memo with a 180° revamp of that trinket?

    Last thing i read about it was from the almighty Ghostcrawler himself:
    (bluepost) At proc time, it checks how much crit, haste, and mastery you have (yes, this is a snapshot, and does NOT include the mastery raid buff). It finds which is the highest of those 3 (tie breaking rule: crit trumps haste trumps mastery), and gives you a buff of +[sum of lowest two stats] to your highest stat, and -[lowest stat A] and -[lowest stat B]. For example, if you have 6000 mastery, 3000 crit, 2000 haste, and the proc goes off, it gives you a buff that provides [+5000 mastery, -3000 crit, -2000 haste]. It does not continue adjusting that buff as stats change during its duration. Yes, this means that if you have a temporary buff to a stat that is not your highest (even with the temporary buff), and that temporary buff falls off during Re-Origination, you *could* end up with negative rating. In this obscure edge case, negative crit does reduce your crit chance, negative mastery does reduce whatever it normally does, and negative haste is ignored.

  18. #18
    Its still.

    if you ahve 5000crit 2000mastery and 3000 haste when the trinket procs you will have.

    15000 crit( 5000 plus 5000x2=[(3000haste plus 2000mastery)x2]) and 0 haste and 0 mastery(except the normal mastery you always have and the mastery buff from palas)
    Last edited by Viromand; 2013-06-12 at 04:36 PM.

  19. #19
    I apologize, I misread the tooltip. This is how I was reading it:

    Equip: When your attacks hit you have a chance to trigger Re-Origination. Re-Origination converts the lower two values of your Critical Strike, Haste, and Mastery into twice as much as the highest of those three attributes for 10 sec.
    This is what it actually is:

    Equip: When your attacks hit you have a chance to trigger Re-Origination. Re-Origination converts the lower two values of your Critical Strike, Haste, and Mastery into twice as much of the highest of those three attributes for 10 sec.
    So then with this trinket, the priority becomes Hit/Exp to hard cap > Crit > Haste > Mastery, and never use Dodge.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    So then with this trinket, the priority becomes Hit/Exp to hard cap > Crit > Haste > Mastery, and never use Dodge.
    yes but it doesnt matter if you have the trinket or not, you can argue about haste>mastery or mastery>haste that depends on the boss.

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