What Raid progression format do you prefer?

[Mteq]

<seems ive missed option 7 (tier 14 model) in the poll, sorry>

Over the years there have been quite a lot of different raid formats and maybe even some that have not been tried. ive expirienced most while they were actual and i was curious as to what YOU prefer.

i apologise in advance if this has been posted this way before, but all i found were various threads that went into 1 particular format and if it was bad or good.

i've included a poll and will try to explain each option more thoroughly.

for each and every format, i will go out of 12 to 14 bosses, which seems to be the prefered number of bosses for both raiders and developers. single bosses (gruul's lair, magtheridon etc.) will not be included as they defeat the purpose of this thread. optional bosses have also been excluded (these could be added in every catigory, its about the way the raid progresses)

for each format i have mentioned examples, it is good to note that the HC model and raid lockout model is AS IT CURRENTLY IS. NOT as it was at the time of the example. (so always either 10 or 25, HC being switched in interface and able to do so between bosses)

1> The Liniar raid - Basicly what Throne of Thunder is. Liniar progress, boss after boss, no skipping with keys and HC end boss is only killable of all previous bosses have been killed in HC. - takes the longest to get to the end

2> The liniar raid <with options to skip> imagine throne of thunder, but with a key or magical item to skip from council back into the mainhall where Lei Shen destroyes the bridge. all the bosses apart from those intended to be skipped need to be killed for "HC end boss vailability" takes less time then option 1 obviously

3> the Winged raid (nax) 2, 3 or 4 wings with various bosses, with a trigger after each wing that allowes entrance to the last boss. seperate progression paths but each boss needs to be killed for the boss to open up.

4> Skippable Winged Raid. similair to option two, only letting a boss AFTER the winged section (in case of nax sartharion) drop a single use, unique item that activates the portal or door or whatever immediatly the next week. this would mean that every other week, people would be able to skip all the winged content they dont need stuff from. this would also allow people to first get a "progress team" in for the last couple of bosses and let "social members" raid the same raid ID but with the easier bosses. HC end boss would only require the 1 or 2 bosses after the winged section to be killed on HC as well.

5> semi wing. like ulduar. short liniar introduction, then the choise of a couple of bosses. each boss is required to progress to the next section with a liniar end sectionn.

6> liniar progress, next section opens up with keys. imagine the OLD scarlet monastery. each next section was opened up with a key that dropped from the first section. 4 sections in total. its very similair to option 5, BUT its all single themed with various raids close to eachother. seperate wings that are seperate raids.

7> liniar progress, seperate raids - pretty much tier 14. you need to kill empress before you could enter terrace (one raid member atleast) a sort of soft attunement. various raid groups could go into verious instances. shorter raids, but provided more flexability to switch members if you're running 2x 10 for example.


8> none liniar progress, tier 11. 2 or 3 various raids with 4 to 6 bosses. guilds can chose there own progress line in the various instances.

9> Arena typ, no trash (ToC). pool of various bosses, same end boss

10> Arena typ, Trash (like the prison instance from Wotlk in Dalaran, the name escapes me) pool of various bosses, same end boss

11> Arena typ, trash. fixes bosses (like the opening of the dark portal instance)


im curious to see what you guys think, me, being from a 10 man guild that runs a progress group and a social group option 6 sounds very good. you can mix progress with socials for previous wings and get the progress group to completely focus on progress without having to clear a buttload of farm bosses first.

i'm curious to see what you guys think, and if you had any other models i have forgotten.

[Nikkaszal]

I personally prefer option one - true linear raids. I enjoy knuckling down to defeat each boss as they're presented, with your reward for killing one is the opportunity to face the next.

NOTHING pisses me off more than my raid group schisming over which fight to tackle, when people can fall into the "it's too hard, let's go kill another one" trap where you end up trying to learn three fights at once.

Even when I was doing Heroic progression in the past, the best guild I was in was the one where the officers pretty much just said "this is the order we're going to do Heroics in. We won't skip any in this list until they die. Finishing the rest of the raid on Normal will not, under any circumstances, happen until the last hour of the raiding week".

It kept people focussed and driven to succeed.

[Mteq]

I personally prefer option one - true linear raids. I enjoy knuckling down to defeat each boss as they're presented, with your reward for killing one is the opportunity to face the next.

NOTHING pisses me off more than my raid group schisming over which fight to tackle, when people can fall into the "it's too hard, let's go kill another one" trap where you end up trying to learn three fights at once.

Even when I was doing Heroic progression in the past, the best guild I was in was the one where the officers pretty much just said "this is the order we're going to do Heroics in. We won't skip any in this list until they die. Finishing the rest of the raid on Normal will not, under any circumstances, happen until the last hour of the raiding week".

It kept people focussed and driven to succeed.

i see you're point and raise you a question;

what happens after progress? it's slighty outside the scope of the thread, but it is mainly why i chose option 6 myself. you can skip farm content but you dont lose liniar progression. the way ToT is set up at the moment, i feel that it taking upto 6 hours for a full farm clear (thats 2 raids nights for the average guilds) is to much. (6 hours being a guess ofcourse, but with the amount of trash i dont think im to far off)

besides that you cant kill the end boss for farm first and then move on to earlier bosses for HC progress. you actually have to make a chose at one point "okey, we are not gonna do it with our gear this week, lets kill the rest normal for extra loot". this turning point has always been an annoying decision ive found. going back to farm after progress always feels like a let down somehow.

[Extremities]

I can't stand Linear raids...

How about a huge massive open raid zone where you can pick which bosses you want to go after. If you ppl havent played EQ in the past, they had raids with zones that had bosses all over and you could pick an choose. With the tougher bosses in a little bit more difficult areas to get to. THEY had truly amazing raid layouts. WoW's linear raids absolutely blow, in all honesty. Theyre seriously setup where a 5 year old can create it...

[Palmz]

Linear raids so you can actually PROGRESS through the raid.

[wariofan1]

I don't really care whether it's linear or winged, as long as it's well done and it isn't another arena like ToC. I like it both being linear and winged, but for winged raids there's usually a set progression anyways (for example, ICC being Plague -> Blood -> Frost), so it's not like it matters much in the long run.

[Magic Sausage]

From a challenge perspective nothing beats a linear style raid. It is great for 'progressing' through the raid and your reward for defeating each consecutive boss if to finally meet and defeat the big bad mofo at the end. However, once that raid is on farm the option to skip is very convenient and non-punishing.

Skipping bosses on first run through never made sense to me. Take 5.2 for instance. The end boss is Le Shen (or Ra Den, depending on what flavour you like your pop-tarts). Why would Le Shen's minions, other bosses, allow trespassers, us, to walk into the instance and proceed to kill their master. If anything the other 11 bosses should come running to his aid. This is all hypothetical and doesn't take 5.2 lore into account. But, you get what I mean.

[The Madgod]

I like a combination. Ulduar and ICC are good examples of those, where while parts are clearly linear, others allow a bit more choice.

Variety is the spice of life, after all!

Unfortunately the biggest problem with raids which have wings is that there's a bit of an illusion of choice. Sure you have the option of picking and choosing which wing to tackle, but chances are unless you're part of the bleeding edge, you're following the example of a top guild, which typically means easiest to hardest, and that just means if you're stuck inside of one wing, you'll probably have little better luck in the others.

I don't think I know anyone who killed Sindragosa before Professor Putricide, as an example.

[Glorious Leader]

Why do people have a hard on against arena style raids? Do you enjoy the hours spent grinding away at meaningless trash mobs for no reward?

[Deleted]

The Ulduar model. Mostly linear with a few optional bosses here and there.