1. #1

    Post Warlock = General class idea (NOT a new class).

    WARLOCK/GENERAL class idea.

    WALL of text incoming.

    Disclaimer:
    - This is just an idea that popped into my head this morning and will not be a finetuned idea, I am showing you the basics of my idea, hopefully so you can understand my vision around it.
    - This is NOT a new class.
    - The reason why it is not a new class itself, is because it is IDENTICAL with the warlocks demonology spec, and because of that it is also too similar to DK's and hunters with their pets.
    - This is more of an exterior change (kind of like green fire).
    - I am fully aware that this is too much work for one class (actually it is only for one of the specs even).
    - This is selflessly an idea to only one class (within one specc only) and unfair to all the other classes in the game, of course similar things can be done to the other classes, but I'm not interested in theorising around that.

    ---

    Here is my stream of thoughts (feel free to skip this first segment since it is just me talking about myself really).
    I am a fan of the Warcraft universe, I accept pretty much everything they throw at me when it comes to the lore.
    Simply because I think they know best what to do, sure not everything is top notch and it sucks when stuff gets retconned, but I still love them.
    That beeing said, you might think I like everything equally, not really.
    My favorite part in this universe, is one race: the orcs.
    I've never played the first games, I started in WC III: RoC, and this was actually much later than the release (due to not owning a computer when the game came out).
    I was captured at the first mission when you have to learn to control Thrall, yeah, I was sold already there.
    And since then I've followed the orcs up to now, reading novels, comics, quests, fansites etc.
    I dont have alot of characters, but the high level ones are orcs.

    "Silly person wasting my time, what does this have to do with whatever your idea is?" You might think to yourself now.
    Well here it is:
    Since I've followed the orcs for so long I also know their story, from when they were a more simple race, hunting, ceremonies and all that.
    So I know deep down that the orcs are a fairly okay race, they lived next to the draenei without any trouble, they stayed within their own clans and just lived the happy life on Draenor.
    Until ofcourse the demons came along...
    This is where the orcs hit the wall... Hard... Face first... No helmet... Eyes open... You get the idea.
    Demonic magic was introduced and the warlocks joined the fray.
    Many of you knows this and many more does not, but I'm pretty sure you're still thinking: "WHAT IN THE TWISTING NETHER ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!? WHERE IS THIS GOING?!?"

    Bear with me here, we're soon(TM) there.
    I've tried several classes, not in endgame, but I've leveled every class to some degree, and I always end up on one class; my lovely warlock.
    Why? Because even though it doesent take much work, I love to have a pet fighting for me while I'm still fighting at range!
    Ranged fighting is what I do in fantasy games, and I love it!
    The fact that I can stand safe 30-40 yards away from an enemy while my voidwalker/felguard/wrathguard takes the beating is amazing, and I dont want it to stop.
    And I know that hunters pretty much do the same, but the difference is magic VS physical.
    If there is magic in a game I want to grab as much of it as I can, throwing fire from my hands is way cooler than drawing a bow or shooting a gun, plus the pets are cooler aswell!

    Now we're at the very soon(TM) part of the explanation where people have either left or are wishing they could slap me through the internet after all this jibber-jabber.
    As I said I love my warlock because of the playstyle, and I should probably leave it there if I was "normal".
    But alas no...
    Let me say this first, I am not an RP'er (not saying its bad), I love the lore, the lore is spinning around in my head pretty much every day, but I dont write about it, I dont RP about it in game and I dont talk about it to my friends because they dont give two flying fudges.
    But still the lore is a big part of me and my enjoyment of this game.
    I know many other people feel this way about the lore aswell, I'd say we're the group between the people that dont care, and the RP'ers.
    (Dont care about the lore ----- Loves the lore but does not engage in the RP in any way ----- Does RP).

    Demonic magic is pretty much evil magic no matter how you view it, I try to tell myself that my warlock uses it for good (helping the horde).
    But I am still using evil magic and summoning evil creatures from another plane to do my bidding.
    Demonic magic corrupts, twists, destroys etc... And tbh I'm not completely happy that my character, the reflection of me is an deep down evil character in this game.
    I know that if this was real (yep I went there), I would be glared upon, if I walked down Orgrimmar with a demon pet, bad stuff would happen happen to me.
    You dont want a demon wandering down in your town where you're supposed to feel safe.
    And even if I didn't have my demon with me, people would still know that there goes a warlock, he uses demonic magic, ergo he is evil.
    I like to think that my character would fight for Thrall (or any other warchief, not Garrosh atm) to the end, kind of hard now as he's no longer the warchief, I could go for my shaman and "join" him in the Earthen Ring, but I dont like my shaman as much as my warlock.
    I want to activly control soldiers of my faction, not just through some quests and events, but actually have an awesome soldier next to me fighting in Azeroth or wherever!

    This is where my idea comes forth.
    To justify the warlock class, making it honorable to some sort.
    Making it look more like a solid strong character, whether it be an orc, human, blood elf or whatever.
    I would like, actually would LOVE to play as a GENERAL (officer of some sort).
    Okay here is an idea of a new class one would think, but with three pet classes I think much of it is covered.
    Therefore have a 'SUB CLASS/SUB SPEC' to the demonology tree.

    To put it simple (all explained further down):
    - Instead of summoning demons you summon soldiers of your own faction.
    - Your demonic spells are now renamed and reskinned.
    - You still keep your other spells, all the fire and shadow/dark spells.
    - What I want is to take the DEMON out of DEMONology.

    By doing this, we dont necessary need to get new classes all the time, but you give the existing specs options to look different.
    I like it when we see new classes, but one day you'll have too many classes to try to balance, right?

    By pressing a button/doing a quest at 90 or something like that, my demonology warlock turns into a general.
    As stated, summons and spells are explained further down.
    But I think this is pretty much have summed it up.

    ---

    Unlockable at specific level/top level to avoid confusion to new players. (Ex. 90).

    All the warlocks fel/chaos/demonic abilities would be renamed to not resemble the evil nature of warlock.
    I dont see the dark/shadow magic as necessary evil, since it is how you use them that decides wether it is evil or not.
    But then again, when you are playing with fel magic and demons, sooner or later you'll get burned.

    Example:
    Chaos bolt = Lava ball/bolt.
    Command demon = command soldier.
    Curse = Demoral (ex: curse of elements = demoraliser of elements; you demoralise your enemy, increasing magic damage taken by X%).
    Demonic circle: summon/teleport = Circle: summon/teleport.
    Demonic gateway = Gateway.
    Fel flame = Flame.
    Etc...

    "New" pets.
    The abilities would be slightly different/better if the warlock/general specced into 'Grimoire of Supremacy'.
    These abilities may work different than the player based abilities, the names will be the same but the effects will be the same as the warlock's demon pets to keep it balanced.

    Imp/fel imp = Caster = Mage: casts fireball and removes debuff from friendly player.
    Voidwalker/voidlord = Tank = Warrior - Protection: taunts, high threat attacks, shields player, selfheals with stealth detection.
    Succubus/shivarra = CC = Rogue - Sinister strike/stab, stealth, stun, kick/knockback.
    Felhunter/observer = Debuff = Priest - Shadow: casts mindblast, dispells enemy/heals self, silence enemy.
    Felguard/wrathguard = DPS warrior = Warrior - Arms: cleave (with healing reduce to enemy), charge, weapon toss and bladestorm.
    Infernal/abyssal = AoE tank = Warlock - Demonology: Metamorph, casting immolate aura.
    Doomguard/terrorguard = Single target DPS = Shaman - Elemental: casts lightning bolt.

    To ad all different races into the summon spells and making it fair that way here are my suggestions (my opinion based, other people may see the race/class combo different):

    Gender*.
    Mage: Blood elf - Draenei.
    Warrior (tank): Tauren - Dwarf.
    Rogue: Troll - Night Elf.
    Priest (shadow): Undead - Human.
    Warrior (arms): Orc - Worgen.
    Warlock (AoE tank): Goblin** - Gnome**.
    Shaman (ele): Pandaren*** - Pandaren***

    * = The gender would be random upon each summon.
    ** = With GoSUP the goblin/gnome will be in metamorph.
    *** = With GoSUP the pandaren will be in ascencdance.
    Based on the GoSUP talent, the other races would be shown in different gear.
    Example:
    Without GoSUP: T1.
    With GoSUP: T2.
    Dont know how all the tier gear looks so just used T1 and T2 as an example.
    Would be even cooler if we could customize the full equipment of the soldiers.
    Glyph of Felguard: Applies to all soldiers, meaning you are "gearing" your soldiers with the weapons of your choice.

    I can understand the confusion to some degree in PvP since they look like players.
    But I think that would just be something you would adept to over time.

    ---

    Last I'd like to say thank you if you actually took your time to read through the great wall of my idea.
    I'm pretty sure it will NEVER happen because it is quite the redo of a class, actually only one spec, and it is so unfair to the other classes that I can only imagine the rage in the forums.
    Yet, this is my dream around this class, yes you are not really a warlock with this, but the way the pets work you are pretty close if not identical to a warlock.
    Too similar to other classes to be a new one.

    I would be pleased to see some feedback on this, good or bad.
    Keep it civil of course.

    ---

    TL;DR:
    - Warlocks are evil.
    - Love to play the class.
    - Dont want to be evil.
    - Suggestion to de-evil the warlock (not permanent).
    - This can be used on other classes aswell, more of a customisation to the specs we already have.

  2. #2
    Brewmaster Junblat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Warlockville, Lebanon
    Posts
    1,333
    warlocks arent evil, using shadow/fel doest make you evil, its what you do with that power that defines you

  3. #3
    Nice idea for RP servers. I'm sure it would be heavily used there.

    On the other hand it should be optional, because i would never play my undead warlock with pale skin and no eye sockets. He is evil, he loves to inflict pain and torture demons he summons, I even named him "Crusiatus" (little weak moment after watching Harry Potter i'm sure) which is torturing spell.

    About the name of this spec...i guess Summoning or Conjuring (Summoner, Conjurer) and he would probably not use fire, but some kind of arcane magic or something else...
    Main: Wildmax, Drak'thul - Moonkin, Hardcore raider.
    Got 10x lvl 85 on Drak'thul server and 3 another lvl 85 on different servers and bunch of 10-84 alts.
    Hello no-life.

  4. #4
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    4,760
    Quote Originally Posted by Junblat View Post
    warlocks arent evil, using shadow/fel doest make you evil, its what you do with that power that defines you
    Unlike arcane magic the use of fel magic corrupts the user’s body and soul. By contrast the chief danger of arcane magic is that using it inevitably leads to the desire to wield greater power: power that only fel magic can provide. - Wowpedia

    I don't think that needs more explanation.




  5. #5
    In ye olden days you used to have actual quests that would teach you how to summon your demons, it used to be part of what made you a demon master Warlock. Having this mysterious power to draw forth beings from the Twisting Nether was awesome, and it was made very clear that this was no ordinairy magic. Your plan to simplify this just using the summoning spell as something you could use to summon random humanoids to you would seem a bit lame. Would also make your average Warlock wonder why the hell he can summon a single humanoid on his own on a regular basis, but needs a whole ritual with help from others to do it at other times.

    Oh and this summoning Humanoids has the slight problem of Grimoire of Sacrifice. You're not exactly not evil anymore if you turn around and sacrifice these humanoids for more power.
    Your Soul Shall Suffer! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  6. #6
    I could get behind this idea IF it was a minor glyph AND it was purely a cosmetic change.

  7. #7
    I actually always wanted something similar to this for a 4th warrior spec. It's basically a pet class that commands other soldiers, similar to the Captain class in Lord of the Rings Online.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ireland, home of the Potato, Whisky, Drunks and Drunk Fighting Tournaments
    Posts
    495
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Unlike arcane magic the use of fel magic corrupts the user’s body and soul. By contrast the chief danger of arcane magic is that using it inevitably leads to the desire to wield greater power: power that only fel magic can provide. - Wowpedia

    I don't think that needs more explanation.


    To be fair, Fel magic can corrupt the user into making them evil, but not all Warlocks are 100% evil. Warlocks just have the biggest potential to fall to corruption, but one could argue that overzealotous Paladins (Scarlet Crusade) or Shaman (Twilight Hammer) have a lesser but still valid potential to fall to different evils. There are non-evil Warlocks (council of the black harvest sans Kanrethred comes to mind) but they're more Chaotic Good/neutral than evil. But that's semantics.

    OP, I'm not gonna lie, there's a lot of noncrucial elements in your post. Gonna seperate the lore "feel" and the mechanics/aesthetic parts.

    Ok, mechanically/aesthetically, y'know, I always wanted the idea of summoning a Mage and forcing that little runt of Arcane naeivity to do my bidding, so I'm not entirely against this. The trouble is, when you think of it, summoning (as in taking someone from A to your location B, instead of simply creating a portal/teleport to A) is still Fel (or at least Shadow) magic. My understanding of summoning (admittedly, it's been a long time and I have many universes I'm a huge fan of so I may be mistaken) is that it involves using the Twisting Nether as a relay or bounce point (similar to how teleportation in Half Life uses Xen as a relay point), in a sense you are ripping someone from their place and shoving them in front of you. The only people I can think of who summon who aren't Warlocks are the Acolytes of the Damned in WC3. But with the actual aesthetic parts (yes, i got offtrack), I'm not sure if people would like it. I mean, in some ways it's a good idea don't get me wrong, but I always thought players got a bit disinterested when they relied on AI controlled player "manniquins" who have random appearances, like Caverns of Time. And further more, I never thought of the Abyssal as an AoE Tank (more AoE dps as to the Doomguard's ST dps) but even if it did, and we summon in a warlock........ We're still using Warlock magic just through a third party! It's a bit of a double standard "Oh, I don't want to use Demonic magic, so I'll use this guy who uses demonic magic" (which in a very meta way is how the Factions view their warlocks but I don't think you were intending to be so meta). I just feel like it's.... Like playing a Shaman but wanting to be an ice-mage, so having all of Elemental's powers changed just so you can be an ice-mage (yes, Frost exists but you get my point)

    And how would you replace Metamorphosis?

    Ok, lore feel. No offense but... While we are the Chaotic class, we are meant to skirt with evil a lot. In a sense, one could argue that we do evil to do good, and as long as the evil (torture, chaos, demonic summoning, etc) is targeted towards our enemies (be it Alliance, Horde or a third faction like Thunder King) our faction tolerates us. Our set pieces are always based around one of three central themes (plague and slow agony, demonic fury and forbidden knowledge, or utter burning chaos, which are our three specs naturally). Everything we do is meant to show that we are consuming ourselves for the good of our faction (right now I'm getting MASSIVE "Claymore" flashbacks, which have warriors in the manga series is quite similar to Warlocks). I don't think that just changing our demon's skins to members of our faction would stop the other parts of our class from showing through. Basically, and though I hate to say it, if you're playing a Warlock you are playing a character who is trying to find a balance between power and corruption.

    For those who know what I'm talking about, I see Warlocks as being like Riku from Kingdom Hearts after 2, using Dark magic and knowing they could fall to corruption, but promising themselves not to and to do the best they can with the magic they have.
    Last edited by Queen Ultima; 2013-04-01 at 03:57 PM.

  9. #9
    Huge amount of cosmetic changes that would need to be put in place for dubious reasons.

    I stand by "lump it or leave it", either you like the class enough from a mechanics point to put up with the lore elements you don't like, or you don't. It's not blizzards responsibility to put up a metric heap of work (look at how long it took us to get a simple colour swap on fire) to please every player individual likes and dislikes. There's plenty of room to RP a warlock as a martyr for his cause that fights fire with fire if you really must.

    I also guffaw at the idea of "removing the demon from demonology", they've already became far too focused on meta as opposed to their actual demon, they don't need to go losing any more of what is the sole defining factor of that spec and the major class thematics. You may as well remove the holy from paladins, we have one of those - it's called a warrior.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ireland, home of the Potato, Whisky, Drunks and Drunk Fighting Tournaments
    Posts
    495
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    I also guffaw at the idea of "removing the demon from demonology", they've already became far too focused on meta as opposed to their actual demon, they don't need to go losing any more of what is the sole defining factor of that spec and the major class thematics. You may as well remove the holy from paladins, we have one of those - it's called a warrior.
    To be fair, one of the builds in the Cata or MoP alphas (forget which) involved the Warlock not casting spells themselves but each spell summoning a demon that would attack the enemy (basically being the same as normal spells but with demon visuals), it was removed because playtesters and the Warlock team didn't care for the player's power coming from not the warlock themselves but the demons

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Ultima View Post
    To be fair, one of the builds in the Cata or MoP alphas (forget which) involved the Warlock not casting spells themselves but each spell summoning a demon that would attack the enemy (basically being the same as normal spells but with demon visuals), it was removed because playtesters and the Warlock team didn't care for the player's power coming from not the warlock themselves but the demons
    Mists before it was ever public to players, Xelnath mentioned it somewhere on this forum when he was talking about how the Demo class design came to be.
    Your Soul Shall Suffer! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  12. #12
    @Dead_MAX

    Yeah I don't want it to be permanent myself.
    I thought I had put that in the text but seems like I only wrote that in the TL;DR part.
    But yeah, I would still like to summon demons and be a demonology warlock, but have two options on the demonology spec.
    I've had some additional thoughts these last hours, and to compare it with the other specs warlocks got, it would look somewhat like this:

    Destruction:
    Opt 1: Regular fire look.
    Opt 2: Green fire.

    Affliction:
    Opt 1: As it is.
    Opt 2: Something that makes it different.

    Demonology spec:
    Opt 1: Demonology warlock.
    Opt 2: General/officer

    And when you respec at your trainer you can choose a different option within the original spec again.
    "Hey I didn't really like the green fire, let me respec into the regular fire again".
    The power is the same, but the look makes it unique.
    This way your affliction spec might not be different than another affliction warlock in power, but you would be more unique with an option like this.
    Tbh I'm pretty sure people would still go with the regular fire look on their spells.
    Right now the green fire is more of a showoff that you got something with low droprate and actually defeated the boss, and I like it to some extent, if you got it you deserved it.
    But in the long run it wont be unique anymore like that, eventually "everyone" will have green fire and people will be CBA towards it.

    ---
    @xskarma

    I'm not really talking about using magic to summon forth a humanoid from wherever.
    I guess the "summoning" part would be more like how hunters work.
    When you need your pet you call it, so it would be more like you're calling for aid, and a soldier helps you.
    You might think it is weird that a group of soldiers are following you all the time, but the hunter pets do the same dont they?

    I knew the Grimoire of Sacrifice would show up. :P
    Yeah I thought about that too, but by renaming it into something like:
    Soldiers call: You dismiss your soldier/follower and gains a benefitial buff from them (depending on the soldier).

    ---
    @Awarewolf

    I havent played LotRO that much, but it sounds like its the same yeah.
    Yeah even the warrior would fit this well, I would love to have a squire of some sort at all times helping.

    ---
    @Queen Ultima

    I should have written more about the summoning part, it was kinda bad explained in the original post.
    But as I said to xskarma, I'm not talking about magically summoning aid, more like calling someone for help.
    The ability would just be named 'Call soldier' instead of 'Summon demon'.
    And then a soldier of your choice would come running.

    What I love about having a minion is the fact that in WoW they dont really need that much attention, they do their stuff, but they still help you alot if you know what I mean.
    And they are far from OP, they can easily be taken down in a PvP situation.

    I just called them AoE tank from what I read on WoWpedia, their ability to tank better than a voidwalker.
    Anyways, a metamorphed warlock with immolate aura fits the description the in my opinion.

    And going back on the summoning a warlock part, its not really 'summoning' anything, you are calling for a warlock to help you because you are now a general/officer.
    In a fight you (as an officer) looks at the situation, sees that you'd need the X guy because the Y guy does not fit for this kind of job.
    As you do now; "I'm going to max my DPS on this boss, I'll bring out my felguard/wrathguard" or "Hmm here's alot of mobs, I should CC one with my succubus/shivarra".
    The same applies to the 'General' option (I'll call them options from now); "I'm going to max my DPS on this boss, I'll bring out my orc warrior" or "Hmm here's alot of mobs, I should CC one with my rogue".

    I see the point on the shaman comment, but since they are in contact with the all the elements already with their different spells (earth shock, flame shock, frost shock, wind shear), in my opinion they wouldn't really need that kind of change.
    I'd rather see them with lets say this as an option to their spec:

    Enhancement.
    Opt 1: As is. Melee DPS.
    Opt 2: Tank (some love it, some hate it, but in reality people have been shouting for this forever).

    With this comment towards the shaman I know I'm kind of going against myself when I said the option would be the same but with different exterior/look.
    But still they are the same, but yet different if you know what I mean. :>
    "Yeah, but what about how the talents used to be, druids had three talent trees with melee dps and tank in the same. That was just chaotic".
    True, but by obviously splitting the options up like this, the players would see the difference easier, and now you dont really need to see that either since all you do in LFG/LFR is to click damage, heal, tank.

    I'll admit, I never thought about metamorph.
    Got me there, I guess it could (dont hurt me for making hasty ideas :P ) be some sort of enrage form.
    You pop it and instead of demonic fury, you use fury.
    You are litterly a pissed off general/officer at that point, and by using abilites you calm down to your normal state.
    I know I am doing good as my warlock, but yet it is not really a 'good' class.

    ---
    @Nagassh

    Yeah I know, it would be a HUGE massive job to do.
    But if I could play with a class from my lore perspective I would stick with my shaman, love the lore of them but cant stand the feel ingame.
    They have temp pets to summon but it is not enough for me, if I could get a permanent elemental for example, that would be a simplier thing towards my needs atleast (I know I'm beeing really selfless here).
    But then I could be elemental and summon a pet to help me.
    Thing is, we only have two pets as a shaman (talking about elementals), fire and rock.
    I love them when they're out, but hate it when they dissapear, and I would also like to get the water (damn you mages!) and wind.
    Fire and rock could work as they still do, but water would heal and wind would be a rogue like pet.
    Sticking with the archtypes in fantasy games.
    But then we suddenly have four pet classes instead of three.

    We already have several semi-pet classes (dont remember all from the top of my head), but shamen summon wolves and elementals, paladins can summon the ancient king guardian, druids (boom/resto) can summon treants.
    Etc...
    Not sure if Blizzard likes the idea of more classes turning into pet classes.

    Perhaps it was a bad choise of words to say I'd like to remove demon from demonology, but what I meant is to have the option to be a class that can fight (general/officer) but with the ability to call for soldiers (just like a warlock, hunter and DK does with their perma pets).
    The best would probably be to suggest a whole new class, but it would be too similar to what we already have, therefore put it as an option in one of the classes we already have.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •