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  1. #141
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    the speed of levelling would be a non-issue if levelling were challenging or fun. or best of all, both.
    Balderdash! If leveling were challenging all the way through from 1-90 it would take longer, be more difficult, and the relatively low level of discussion threads like this would triple overnight with people complaining about it. The supposed 'rewards' from having the leveling experience be twice as hard wouldn't even begin to cover the grief it would cause.

    I'll grant you it's rather boring now but having it be too 'interesting' purely due to being difficult/challenging would be just as bad if not worse.

    No one knows what the definition of 'fun' is that covers everyone so discounting that altogether.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 03:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Stede View Post
    That seemed relatively low on the priority list, so - I wouldn't hold my breath. Cool to see folks looking at it from a goldmaking angle, though
    I could be entirely wrong but I don't believe that opening up professions for everyone would be a big serious code change. That said, where you plan to store all the mats for that many professions is another issue entirely. If it's not a big change it could happen any time; like tri-spec I suppose which was rather sudden and unexpected to see--unannounced or otherwise.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  2. #142
    I guess my question is what's the point of leveling now? (Even more specifically, adding levels each expansion) It used to be a focal part of the gameplay in vanilla and to a lesser extent in BC. Nowadays, though, it's an afterthought compared to max level content. Even though leveling has become monumentally better compared to Vanilla leveling, it is seen more as gating from what people really want and what Blizz spends most their time designing: end game content.

    For the last few expansions, I just dont know what purpose leveling serves anymore. It doesn't make you a better player and you don't need 5 lengthy levels to figure out the ~2-3 new abilities you learn. It just seems like filler to me. I personally would love it if they just said "No more leveling! If you want to quest, we have TONS of dailies for you to partake in!" But I can't even imagine the QQ that would ensue if that were to happen.
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    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    Balderdash! If leveling were challenging all the way through from 1-90 it would take longer, be more difficult, and the relatively low level of discussion threads like this would triple overnight with people complaining about it. The supposed 'rewards' from having the leveling experience be twice as hard wouldn't even begin to cover the grief it would cause.
    that sound you heard was my point, flying over your head.

    the fact is, if levelling contained any small drop of actual gameplay any more, there would be less complaints about it, regardless of how long it took. at the moment it is mind numbingly tedious because it requires precisely zero skill. it is a barrier between starting the game, and reaching challenging, meaningful content. people want it to be shorter because it isnt a game at that point, at least not in any form i recognise.

    making it quicker is like cutting the crusts off a shit sandwich. you might be able to get through it faster but it still leaves you with a nasty taste in your mouth.
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  4. #144
    Warchief Mukki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moshic View Post
    So many voices complaining about the cruel MoP leveling experience, to which I agree to. Ever think to consider the problem might be you?
    I got from 85-90 in a matter of 72 hours... literally EVERYTHING gives experience. Cata, Wrath, BC, VANILLA were all far worse. What planet are you on?

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukki View Post
    I got from 85-90 in a matter of 72 hours... literally EVERYTHING gives experience. Cata, Wrath, BC, VANILLA were all far worse. What planet are you on?
    72 hours is a huge time investment and you can double that with levelling from 1-85 when the majority of the content is at max level asking a player to spend a week of game play to reach that level, for some this is over two months of playing, is ridiculous.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    I did just about everything to mix it up. I toured the entirety of Pandaria doing all the quests I could, I did dungeons, I even did a bit of PVP that I despised - especially when I had zero PVP gear while lvling.

    The problem is, I'm sick of it. I have been levelling since vanilla. It's has gotten quite old.

    Levelling is really beginning to feel like a "gate" that stopping you from doing end-game activities.

    PS: What's with you always defending Blizzard? LOL. If I'm unhappy with something in the game, I'm going to say it. Whether Blizzard fixes it or not, to improve my experience, is up to them.
    How am I defending Blizzard by saying the game feels like a grind because of your very own actions? Where have I said the game can't be improved and that Blizzard can do no wrong? Look as I said before a lot of this whining about grinding is a direct result of players playing Mop like Cata. Change your mind set and you just might enjoy the game again. Or maybe you are burnt out and need a break. Is Mop perfect? No but that doesn't mean many complaints about Mop aren't a result of player choices and not necessarily bad game design.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 08:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by James Tiberius Kirk View Post
    Any leveling is too much. To me it's by far the worst part of the game.

    The game starts at the max level. I don't care who raped Manrik's wife and I don't want to collect scrap metal for lazy quest givers.
    Unfortunately for you not everyone is like you. Different players like different things and thats fine but leveling of some sort is a core mechanic in mmos.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 08:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    I really wish people would stop bringing up BoAs when talking about how long leveling takes. Not everyone is in a level 25 guild with access to all of them. Not everyone has a friend to recruit. The most I can get is 20% faster through BoA, and only up to 80. To many people leveling takes way too long. Quit telling them they are wrong.
    Getting guild heirlooms is absolutely trivial now with the changes to guild rep. Spend a few hours questing and boom 3 new heirlooms with very little grinding. Also it is beyond trivial to get DMF tickets and buy heirlooms with those as well. The simple fact of the matter is if you want lvling to be faster you have numerous ways of making it faster.
    Last edited by xanzul; 2013-03-29 at 12:14 AM.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    How am I defending Blizzard by saying the game feels like a grind because of your very own actions? Where have I said the game can't be improved and that Blizzard can do no wrong? Look as I said before a lot of this whining about grinding is a direct result of players playing Mop like Cata. Change your mind set and you just might enjoy the game again. Or maybe you are burnt out and need a break. Is Mop perfect? No but that doesn't mean many complaints about Mop aren't a result of player choices and not necessarily bad game design.[COLOR="red"]
    You do seem to spend a lot of your time here attacking anyone that disagrees with Blizzard. If Blizzard want WOW to continue to be successful it is them that have to adapt to the players not the other way around.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    I know how to level fast and efficiently as I've done it with 7 classes. The experience is so unenjoyable at this point that I can't bring myself to finish the rest until some XP cuts happen or something else to speed up the process. It's not so much the length of time that bothers me primarily but that time spent doing the same thing over and over if you want to be the most efficient time-wise. There is nothing new by the 3rd/4th alt, let alone the 8th. My ambition would spark again if I something happened to shorten the time I have play repeat content.
    You don't need 500 alts. I'm fine with suggesting changes to the game but changes shouldn't be motivated by outliers like you who lvl unhealthy amounts of characters for no apparent reason.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 08:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Coleslaw View Post
    85-90 is not fun to level any more.

    It doesn't change...at all. Not one bit. Why they buffed heirlooms to 85, but not 90 makes absolute 0 sense to me.

    My first 90 I leveled via questing, my second...dungeons. My second one came out worse because he had 0 rep across the board, so I had to go back and do the quests anyway to start getting rep for valor gear.

    What they SHOULD do is just have an exp buff applied to your account when you get the zone achievement for doing the # of required quests.
    Blizzard never speeds up lvling in current content until right before the next expansion comes out. I'm not sure why players think this is a reasonable request. Don't like lvling? Then don't. Simple as that. Wait for the xp cuts or suck it up and grind it out. Either way this is a personal problem and not a game design issue.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    72 hours is a huge time investment and you can double that with levelling from 1-85 when the majority of the content is at max level asking a player to spend a week of game play to reach that level, for some this is over two months of playing, is ridiculous.
    And yet, not only did we do it in the past (since Vanilla), we enjoyed it.

    One wonders how you manage to survive, since all food takes time to cook. I mean, come on, we've been heating food to eat it for how many thousands of years? And you still have to wait five minutes for the pizza rolls to warm up in the microwave? Man, how rough life is.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Yes, it is way too much right now. BC/wrath take too long, and even 1-58 is tedious without flight paths. Ironically 80-85 is surprisingly fast now. 85-90 is stretched out way too thinly over way too many quests.
    What on earth are you talking about? BC/Wrath takes too long? You mean a few hours of lvling per expansion is too much? Seriously? You practically outlvl the expansion before clearing out the first zone. It's perfectly fine. As for the flight path thing, no. Just no. Anyone crying about automatic flight paths being removed clearly doesn't lvl by questing anyway or they would know quest flow was redesigned in such a way that you end up getting your flight paths naturally as you quest through each zone. There is no running long distances to get them anymore and sure as hell doesn't make lvling more of a grind. Boo hoo you have to wait an extra 1.2 seconds to get to the next quest hub. Give me a fucking break.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    And yet, not only did we do it in the past (since Vanilla), we enjoyed it.

    One wonders how you manage to survive, since all food takes time to cook. I mean, come on, we've been heating food to eat it for how many thousands of years? And you still have to wait five minutes for the pizza rolls to warm up in the microwave? Man, how rough life is.
    Yeah that is really the same, well done!

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanthanum View Post
    I won't be leveling anything else in the near future. I have had my fill.

    I came into MoP with 15 level 85's and have since taken 7 onto the level cap. I have seen everything that every continent has to offer. I know the quests inside out.

    What do Blizzrd do in the future? I agree that going from 1-100 would be a daunting prospect.
    Blizzard doesn't design the game around people having 20+ lvl capped alts and nor should they.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 08:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskymon View Post
    I hate grinding but i love RPGs and WoW.

    Blizz should find "middleroad" which pleases both sides. Like that XP lock thing. Pay 5k gold and get +300xp buff.

    This way people who want to take it easy and enjoy the view can do it and ppl who want to rush to 90lvl can do it with a permanent XP buff.

    Edit. Of course, this XP buff would be available after first level 90 char.
    You mean a middle road like heirlooms and various xp buffs and all the new ways they have given us to lvl so we don't have to grind 1-90 doing the exact same thing on every character? We already have that.

  13. #153
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    85-90 needs like a 66% XP cut. 1-85 isn't awful if you have heirlooms, but 85-90 is an interminable grind.
    I agree it's pretty crap. Not looking forward to it. 1-85 is a pleasure but it becames a pure fuckign wall at 85.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #154
    i absolutely love leveling, more than anything else in the game. i think that the xp requirements are fine. it doesn't take too much time to level from 1 to 90, especially with heirlooms and if you have an understanding about which zones to quest in and when. i recently finished leveling a hunter to 90 in just under 48 hours of play time. leveling is fun and although it may seem long and tedious to some, it is an important part of the game and shouldn't be shortened too much.
    Last edited by reef; 2013-03-29 at 12:36 AM.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    imho - Blizz should make the old expansion raids become an optional way of leveling. Like leveling 50-60 doing vanilla raids, 60-70 doing TBC raids, etc... And have each tier within the expansion represent a portion of the leveling, with decreasing xp as you gain levels.
    These kinds of suggestions I don't have a problem with. Rather than demand faster leveling maybe we should have Blizzard address the reason why some people don't like lvling directly? It would make for a better game and give everyone more options without hurting the game or the players.

  16. #156
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    I think the anticipation of being able to do the content you really want to take part in is what creates that Hell.
    Well put, Sir.

    Leveling is cool and fun when all your friends start with you and you all level together.
    Leveling is hell if all your friends are already max level and you just want to catch up asap and have to level solo, to do what an MMO is all about: Playing with your friends.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanto View Post
    I don't mind the leveling process that much for 1-85. But geeze, 85-90 is dreadfully annoying. I know that flying helped 80-85 go faster and really helped with just not making it feel like a boring grind, and I do think Blizzard should take a serious look at it again for 85-90. I do agree that flying initially takes you away from the world, but I believe the WotLK approach to flying was probably the best and would help those alt-o-holics that share the sentiment that Pandaria takes too damn long in its current state.
    Mop lvling is no slower than Cata lvling. Keep in mind Cata zones were designed with flying as you lvl in mind whereas Pandaria lvling was designed with ground mounts in mind.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Blizzard doesn't design the game around people having 20+ lvl capped alts and nor should they.
    Why are you so against shortening the time it takes for someone that already has one or more level capped characters to level another character? How does this impact your enjoyment of the game?

    Whilst it is probably unusual for someone to have 20 or more level characters, and the person you quoted does not say anything of the sort but don't let that stop you, I would imagine that many have five characters that around level 60 or above. For existing players the levelling experience is disjointed and repetitive. Why not change levelling for those that already have one or more max level characters?

  19. #159
    Deleted
    If you ask me leveling is quicker and far less draining than it ever before. At least 1-85 is, it's just 85-90 that makes me want to smash my head into a brick wall every time I get to that point. Not that it take s long, because it doesn't, but because it is ridiculously boring.
    Last edited by mmoc9bca5565b2; 2013-03-29 at 12:55 AM.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Yep, people should only play the game the way you think it should be played, else they are just whining and moaning. In TBC I had four 70s, sounds like you're just a terrible player if you didn't know how to level more than 1. Or maybe you're just extremely lazy, because I made time to level four you should have been able to level four.

    See, we can all twist things around and think our way is the only correct way of playing
    I'm sorry but enough is enough with this special snowflake bullshit mentality. Blizzard just simply isn't going to support every niche play style including the "must fill every character slot on every realm with lvl capped characters" play style. If Blizzard were to change the game around to support people like you then most of the content we get would be much like what we got in Cata because everything has to be fast and god forbid anything take time or effort. No thanks. I'm sorry but people like you are a threat to the core mechanics of what makes Wow an mmo. Those of you who object to vehemently to any and all aspects of mmos need to seriously reconsider if mmos are for you.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 08:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    Of course, not every new toon is an alt. If you're not friend-ed in, imagine how daunting it must be for new players. What other game requires a 100 hour time commitment before you can even start playing the game?
    Ever think to consider new players aren't going to sit there and bitch and whine and moan about every god damn thing under the sun while playing? I keep hearing concern for new players but that is complete bullshit. Most of you just want to fast track everything in this game new players and old players both be damned. Let's be honest here. You want things faster for YOU.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 08:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    No, but it does mean you are missing out on the majority of content. It is a fact that the vast majority of the game revolves around max level; which is a problem in design since Blizzard is unwilling to introduce features to make dicking around with lower level content more attractive.
    The vast majority of the game revolves around max level for YOU. Stop speaking for others. Many players enjoy leveling and questing and everything that goes along with it. Want it faster? You have options. Use them instead of trying to get Blizzard to gut what is left of the game.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 09:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I made no assumption about how you or your daughter play WOW I simply asked what was the point of levelling from level one when an experienced WOW player would be able teach someone more in an hour than three or four days of levelling ever could. If she enjoys the levelling experience and enjoy teaching her about the game good for both of you but let's not pretend that the levelling process actually teaches much that is relevant to end game play.

    I made no mention of new players other than to say that the levelling experience is not very good at teaching them how to play the game. The point of this thread is not about new players experience of levelling but players who have experienced levelling a number of times and are now bored of having to go through it all again.
    All I see is a whole lot of side stepping because you have no valid counter for anything he said.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 09:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DomesticViolence View Post
    One annoyance I'm experiencing, is the return of discovering flight paths. I know that's the way it used to be and having all FPs was a "bug" for awhile, but I notice now it does take up a lot of time during the leveling process.
    And this is how I know you don't quest when lvling. Not only did Blizzard add in dozens of new flight paths in the Azeroth revamp but they also redesigned quest flow so that you get your flight paths naturally as you progress through each zone. There is no running endlessly for flight paths because this isn't vanilla wow anymore. Not only that but we have numerous methods of getting around that we didn't have before. If you spend more time screwing with flight paths than leveling then you are doing something very horribly wrong.

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