A bit too much leveling at this point?

[Durandro]

Experience boosters might work for alts. Buy heirloom consumables at max level only that give a certain percentage XP buff for an hour. Would help to power through some of the tedious parts of leveling alts.

However, currently the worst part is Pandaria. Great zones and quests, but the sheer amount you need to do is pretty grueling. Early on its fine to have to work towards level cap, but right now I think the whole continent could do with a small buff to xp gain. Maybe have it balanced so you only need to complete 3 zones to get to 90 now instead of 4 (was actually nearly 5 for my main since I completed green quests as well).

Also buff XP from doing dungeons. Its bad enough that there's no variety in the 85-89 bracket, but the XP gain is really low right now! I'd at least double it compared to what we get now, or make the dungeon quests much more generous so you're encouraged to do them at least once per alt!

[xezar]

85-90 is icky (especially with the lack of dungeon options overall, 2 till 87 and 2 new ones from there), but I suspect it wouldn't be as much of a pain in the ass if you had flying; seriously their whole "see the world" crap is flatout stupid for the other part of the population that really doesn't give a flying you-know-what about scenery and such; once is ok, but anything more and it's just a time waster since all the quests are lineal for the most part, so if you're trying to get alt 2 or 3 through to 90, you just really stop caring and wishing you could legally buy exp to get to 90.

[zeropeorth]

What about scaling zones/your character ... think about challenge modes (in wow ofc) or Instant Adventures (in Rift), or, as I understand GW2 operates (as I haven't played that game).

Make it so zones are not irrelevant and you could choose your path, not by 'zone level' but just by questing in general. This could possibly mean re-implementing their CRZ in a different way ... have the zones scale to your level, and place people in the appropriate instance level of that zone; as an opt-in. This could then also work with pvp ... allowing same level world pvp and preventing asshat camping (90s sitting at level 20 questing zones 1 shotting people and ruining the game experience). You would then always have the zone be somewhat appropriately challenging (cough). The other option is scaling the characters down (which would also mean making true world pvp happen, since the 90s would be scaled down on stats to approximate the level range for that zone, they'd still be able to pull off OP ganks, but it would encourage people leveling to group up and overpower in numbers the ganker).

Either way, with the current state of speed of leveling, it is fine, it is just the overall process isn't (pre-mists). If you have heirlooms, you will far outlevel your zones ... if you don't, but involve yourself in just the dungeon quests as they come available, you will still outlevel a zone. Anything that can be done to encourage staying in the zones and fininshing the lore is good for the game as a whole ... the more people are detached from the story, the less involved they are ... the more of a pointless, boring grind it seems.

I think it is also good to stop the rng during questing. You should never kill a spider for spider legs and have it have no legs at all. It isn't like they are microscopic spiders we are squishing under foot, the spiders are bigger than us ... you should at least be able to pick up a couple legs off it ... or a yak tongue, whatever. Tune the quantity up, not the drop rate to possibly none multiple times. This was always one of the most frustrating issues with collection quests, especially in group play, in populated zones.

I think, if they were to work on such a system, since it would require retuning some stuff (either zones or players), re-implement major group quests to zones as well. The worst thing you can do, is what they did with CRZ ... after years of nearly encouraging solo questing through non-shared mob drops at low drop rates, removing group quests, nerfing tough mobs, etc ... you can't turn around and force people from other realms to artificially populate zones and expect everyone to hug and cooperate suddenly as if the mentality of questing hadn't been slowly changing both at the player and design level for nearly a decade.

This is where other games get it right, even if you don't like the other games.
Tera - BAMs encourage group play, also, the difficulty of the mobs themselves makes it more efficient to level with someone.
Rift - Rifts encourage group play and helping out people you run across in the world. Instant Adventures are a fast, easy way to group up with random adventures completing quests together.
SWtOR - Heroic quests and Area (heroic area) group quests (for 2-4 people) encourage group play, including nice rewards for completion (moddable gear, good credits, xp, comms)

and I'm sure others could point out things in GW2 or other stuff in the games above.

I can't think of much in WoW, that encourages group play during questing. Last time I leveled a Pali and a DK, I could solo all the group quests I came across with ease, and with other classes that were more squishy, without relatively much trouble. It is fine if it is possible to solo with most classes, as long as you know your toolkit and can utilize your skills (both player and class) to their fullest ... but otherwise, you should be looking for others to take down tough obstacles with you, possibly making 'friends' in the process. Encourage the social aspect of the game, because without it ... you are just grinding for gear/gold and that is not a good reason to stay subbed; sounds more like work than a social interactive game for pleasure.


Change the experience and it won't be too much; it will be about the journey, not the destination. Over the years, WoW has created the disease that an MMO is about the destination, not the path to it. That makes the gamers shallow, and with that, the experience; no game developer can satisfy you if you gorge their content like you are at a eating contest, racing to the finish, then sick from stuffing your face. It should be more like a nice meal with friends, with communication, and savoring the meal you share together, all courses ... not a race to the dessert, then complain when your plate is empty and you feel miserable after you eat your morsel of ice cream.

[Deleted]

Make a death knight.

[Mormolyce]

85-90 needs like a 66% XP cut. 1-85 isn't awful if you have heirlooms, but 85-90 is an interminable grind.

You're doing it in dungeons aren't you?

It's not so bad questing, but only having 4 dungeons makes leveling in dungeons horrific. I leveled one toon 85-90 purely in dungeons and it was hell! At least it was 87-90, the first two levels were okay (dungeon quests helped a fair bit). I calculated that each dungeon got me 10% of a bar, so I only needed 10 dungeons per level for those last 3 levels. And I couldn't bring myself to do it! I sat on 80% of level 90 for like a week haha. This was with a full bar of blue time. I wish they'd made sub-90 versions of more dungeons, if not all. Or let you level in scenarios.

Another toon I got to 88 in dungeons and couldn't take it anymore, swapped to questing and it went by in a breeze.

[Azutael]

1-60 is way to fast, up to 70 it's to fast. Slows down towards 80, but it's not really an issue.
From 80-85 it really starts slowing down, and 85-90 is just a nightmare.

I mean I have always used to lvl several characters, even when it was brutal. But this time around I feel that, especially 85-90 is just to painful to bother. Have so far struggled my way and gotten 3 chars at lvl 90, one for gathering. And my two most loved characters ever since classic. But there's no way I am going to lvl more to 90 before they reduce the exp required.

[Mormolyce]

Make a death knight.

Meh, the first 55 levels are fast, fun and easy anyway.

And I already have a DK of course!

---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 05:59 AM ----------

I mean I have always used to lvl several characters, even when it was brutal. But this time around I feel that, especially 85-90 is just to painful to bother. Have so far struggled my way and gotten 3 chars at lvl 90, one for gathering. And my two most loved characters ever since classic. But there's no way I am going to lvl more to 90 before they reduce the exp required.

You know if you were just going to use it for gathering you could've left it at 85 and leveled solely from gathering. The XP is better than you might think and if you're patient, it adds up over time.

Or level it to 86-87 (intro Pandaria quests and a few dungeons, easy) then do the rest gathering.

[Eggers]

Just gonna throw in my 2 cents here... I think leveling is fine as it is. It's fun and rewarding as you go through the levels. I mean.. It's pretty damn easy. And if it's a new class for you, i find it to be a lot of fun and interesting learning how to use your new spells appropriately, etc... It's a fun adventure!

[xanzul]

Experience boosters might work for alts. Buy heirloom consumables at max level only that give a certain percentage XP buff for an hour. Would help to power through some of the tedious parts of leveling alts.

However, currently the worst part is Pandaria. Great zones and quests, but the sheer amount you need to do is pretty grueling. Early on its fine to have to work towards level cap, but right now I think the whole continent could do with a small buff to xp gain. Maybe have it balanced so you only need to complete 3 zones to get to 90 now instead of 4 (was actually nearly 5 for my main since I completed green quests as well).

Also buff XP from doing dungeons. Its bad enough that there's no variety in the 85-89 bracket, but the XP gain is really low right now! I'd at least double it compared to what we get now, or make the dungeon quests much more generous so you're encouraged to do them at least once per alt!

No, there is no however. Outside of Jade Forest questing in Pandaria isn't remotely linear nor do most of the quest hubs have prerequisites to start them. Again let's keep in mind Blizzard has spent most of this expansion trying to get us out of city queues and dungeons and actually out in the world. If you restrict yourself to certain content then you are restricting how fast you lvl so again this is a player created problem and not a game design problem. Stop playing Mop like Cata.

[Gnarles Malarkey]

If you want to level your character via Pokemon, play Pokemon.

Retards.

[Infracted]

[Titan]

People don't want to spend 10-14 days leveling new alts from 1-90. Although BOA's are fine and good, they should not cost anything to upgrade to 85, and they should go right until 90 for those who have a 90.

The problem happens when you want to roll on another server or faction to try something different or play with friends. You are forced to do the 1-90 grind, all over again, for an entire new set of toons with no boa, no money, no bags nothing.

Even leveling with BOA's is annoying. After the third time you do it, it is the worst thing in the world. It's not fun anymore, you know the quests, know the lore. It's a boring grind to get through it. I would sooner quit then level another alt from 1-90.

Now with MOP, less people than ever have alts.

Blizzard should adresss it, but i doubt they will. Gotta force people to fill up those lowbie zones b/c they are to big of cowards to group ALL PVE servers and ALL PVP servers into their own cross realm zones and cap the zones at some high number. Making the world feel alive all the time. They won't do it, because babies roll on PVP servers then cry when they get ganked.

Gotta pander to the kids.

[xanzul]

They cut them down for the previous expac, not for the entire game. When Pandaland was released, there weren't any changes to everything pre-Cata.

Uh...you do realize that is because they nerfed the amount of xp to lvl prior to releasing Cata/Wrath right? Why on earth would they cut it again when it was already done? Again stop looking at your lvl and consider the time spent getting to that lvl. I'm sorry but if you think spending a mere few hours in each of 3 expansions before Mop is a "grind" then maybe just maybe mmos aren't for you.

[announced]

lvling really is a joke now compared to other games.. back before the cataclysm it used to be much tougher.. now 1-60 quests make sense and have great flow.... 60-68 has been cut on experience and new dungeon quests were introduced.. 68-80 has been further reduced exp wise + all group quests were changed to single.. and 80-85 has had an experience cut.. this means only 85-90 is left.. and yes while it does take a few days.. approx 2-3 to reach 90 from 85.. its not that difficult. its even less difficult with heirlooms.

im surprised you are complaining so much, if you only knew how bad things used to be.

10-14 days for an alt? lol.. i can do 1-90 in around 7-8 days max with heirlooms. proly 3-4 with raf if i tried.

[xanzul]

Huh? you can level 85-90 in a couple of days. How is that a grind?

Grind is the new buzzword when bitching about Wow and as such it has lost all meaning. Don't like something? Call it a grind no matter how nonsensical it is to do so.

---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 02:11 AM ----------

Experience boosters might work for alts. Buy heirloom consumables at max level only that give a certain percentage XP buff for an hour. Would help to power through some of the tedious parts of leveling alts.

However, currently the worst part is Pandaria. Great zones and quests, but the sheer amount you need to do is pretty grueling. Early on its fine to have to work towards level cap, but right now I think the whole continent could do with a small buff to xp gain. Maybe have it balanced so you only need to complete 3 zones to get to 90 now instead of 4 (was actually nearly 5 for my main since I completed green quests as well).

Also buff XP from doing dungeons. Its bad enough that there's no variety in the 85-89 bracket, but the XP gain is really low right now! I'd at least double it compared to what we get now, or make the dungeon quests much more generous so you're encouraged to do them at least once per alt!

Again the design intent behind Mop is doing a variety of content and not restricting yourself to just one. Dungeon xp is the way it is because Blizzard doesn't want players to stay in cities 24/7 without at least doing some other content. Only like dungeons? Then deal with lvling slower. Again this is a player created problem.

[SodiumChloride]

What grind? There is no grind. Look I'm sorry you can't sit in a city 24/7 and grind dungeons all the way to 90. I got nearly a full lvl on one of my 85+ characters by running Wrath heroics for achievements. Lvling content isn't restricted to Pandaria so maybe instead of crying about grinds how about finding ways to make it not a grind? Oh wait I'm sorry I forgot. Anything that doesn't involve begging Mommy Blizzard isn't a solution. Honestly most of you crying about these "grinds" are imposing it on yourselves and it is a cop out to blame Blizzard for it.

85-90 was a "grind". By 88 it was really beginning to wear on me. By 89 I started to wonder just when it's going to be over.

My tolerance for levelling has been on the decline. Next expansion is going to be yet another 5 levels I got to grind out.

IMHO, the leveling experienced should be shorten and the freed up resources dedicated to more level cap content like the Dominance Offensive/Lion's Landing. Leveling content should be to just introduce the player to the new continent - to setup the storyline and background.

Also you don't have to make the player tour the entirety of the new landmass to get to lvl cap - leave a little "mystery" for players to explore at lvl cap.

[xanzul]

85-90 is icky (especially with the lack of dungeon options overall, 2 till 87 and 2 new ones from there), but I suspect it wouldn't be as much of a pain in the ass if you had flying; seriously their whole "see the world" crap is flatout stupid for the other part of the population that really doesn't give a flying you-know-what about scenery and such; once is ok, but anything more and it's just a time waster since all the quests are lineal for the most part, so if you're trying to get alt 2 or 3 through to 90, you just really stop caring and wishing you could legally buy exp to get to 90.

It isn't about "seeing" the world. Blizzard doesn't give a flying fuck what you think about their world they just want players traveling through it as that contributes to keeping areas outside cities alive and thriving. This is one of very few game mechanics that isn't necessarily being done for any one single player's benefit but for the entire community of players as a whole.

---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 02:16 AM ----------

1-60 is way to fast, up to 70 it's to fast. Slows down towards 80, but it's not really an issue.
From 80-85 it really starts slowing down, and 85-90 is just a nightmare.

I mean I have always used to lvl several characters, even when it was brutal. But this time around I feel that, especially 85-90 is just to painful to bother. Have so far struggled my way and gotten 3 chars at lvl 90, one for gathering. And my two most loved characters ever since classic. But there's no way I am going to lvl more to 90 before they reduce the exp required.

What? No. 1-85 is fast. Period. End of story. If you end up spending more time 1-85 instead of 85-90 then you are doing something horribly wrong.

[Finick]

I have 4 90's, and I definitely feel like MoP leveling is a pretty enjoyable experience. It's just getting up to current content that is so mind numbing to me. I have a druid at 67 and a priest at 56. I just can't bring myself to level them, Outlands is such a nightmare to go through that it puts me off of leveling as soon as I get to it.

Do I think that they need to nerf leveling xp? Not at all. Would I welcome the change? I guess so, it's not like it would hurt anything. They could also get rid of Outlands leveling... that would be cool too.

[xanzul]

People don't want to spend 10-14 days leveling new alts from 1-90. Although BOA's are fine and good, they should not cost anything to upgrade to 85, and they should go right until 90 for those who have a 90.

The problem happens when you want to roll on another server or faction to try something different or play with friends. You are forced to do the 1-90 grind, all over again, for an entire new set of toons with no boa, no money, no bags nothing.

Even leveling with BOA's is annoying. After the third time you do it, it is the worst thing in the world. It's not fun anymore, you know the quests, know the lore. It's a boring grind to get through it. I would sooner quit then level another alt from 1-90.

Now with MOP, less people than ever have alts.

Blizzard should adresss it, but i doubt they will. Gotta force people to fill up those lowbie zones b/c they are to big of cowards to group ALL PVE servers and ALL PVP servers into their own cross realm zones and cap the zones at some high number. Making the world feel alive all the time. They won't do it, because babies roll on PVP servers then cry when they get ganked.

Gotta pander to the kids.

Only kid I see here is you. It doesn't matter what players want and don't want to do. Lvling is a core mechanic of mmos. Don't like it? don't play mmos.

[Xucuroz]

The problem is how Blizz goes about leveling. Like for instance, they gave us exp from Pet Battles, it was faster then actual questing, so they nerfed it. Now you can't really level from it. They are forcing us to only level through quests/dungeons. They fall under the guise of "People will only do the most efficient way" but forcing us into a way isn't good either. I have done the quests in the game so many times I can't stand them anymore.

Yeah, true enough. Though eventually dungeon exp becomes pretty worthless too. I remember when lvling vial BGs was viable, but they nerfed the exp gain there too.

[xanzul]

85-90 was a "grind". By 88 it was really beginning to wear on me. By 89 I started to wonder just when it's going to be over.

My tolerance for levelling has been on the decline. Next expansion is going to be yet another 5 levels I got to grind out.

IMHO, the leveling experienced should be shorten and the freed up resources dedicated to more level cap content like the Dominance Offensive/Lion's Landing. Leveling content should be to just introduce the player to the new continent - to setup the storyline and background.

Also you don't have to make the player tour the entirety of the new landmass to get to lvl cap - leave a little "mystery" for players to explore at lvl cap.

Let me guess...you only did one type of content? Again if it feels like a grind it is because you are making it a grind. Get out of cities and dungeons. Do other stuff. Again if you restrict the content you do then you restrict how quickly you lvl and as I said that makes it a player created problem. Blizzard has given us the tools to lvl as quickly or as slowly as we want. Use them.