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  1. #1
    High Overlord
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    PvP: How do you deal with rogues?

    While playing my warlock, I feel very useless when being bursted/opened up on by rogues...

    Assume your trink is on CD, what do you do when stunned in an opener, stunned again as a finisher and then they pop cloak and are immune to magic for 6 seconds? All I feel like I can do is pop whatever defensive CDs I have up and pray for someone to peel the sneaky bastard off of me.

    I almost always run BGs as GoSac + destro.

    Are there any tips or tricks that you guys use that you feel like sharing?
    Why is there no "Demonhunter" hero class yet? He was only the coolest hero in WC3. Get busy Blizzard.

  2. #2
    We're back to how it was Pre-MoP, rogues are our unassailable lords and masters, and we are their humble punching bags, My winning strat has been to outgear or outnumber him or disconnect my router to save me the shame.

  3. #3
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    I just try to survive long enough for someone to come and rescue me. And if there's no one nearby I just stand still and do nothing. Unless I severely outgear them, I can't do a thing.

  4. #4
    double demon, imp swarm, bubble and afk it while rogue dies.

  5. #5
    High Overlord
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    I think I'll try to run a couple BGs as demo later, does it allow you to have your wrathguard/felguard stun the rogue while you are incapacitated? If so, is that considered a magic stun (I know the pally stun is)?
    Why is there no "Demonhunter" hero class yet? He was only the coolest hero in WC3. Get busy Blizzard.

  6. #6
    Most classes have a counter class in wow. Rogue has always countered warlocks for as long as I can remember. Your best shot would probably be destruction with very good use of the succubus charm and knock back.

  7. #7
    Sacrificial Pact right away to blunt the initial burst, my Shivarra is already responding by auto-casting her CC on them in response to the stun, trigger Blood Horror as soon as I'm out of the stun, drop my Circle if it isn't already nearby, then start running while throwing instants and hit them with a snare once they come after me. If I have a spare GCD I'll pop Twilight Ward, because a not-insignificant percentage of Rogue damage comes from their poisons.

    When I do all that right, if they're a really good Rogue I'm still probably in trouble. Thing is, really good Rogues are a lot less common than you'd think. Plenty of them have mastered the stealth gank, but if you live through that they're at a bit of a loss as to what to do next.

  8. #8
    High Overlord dunedains's Avatar
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    guys,in my opinion rogues aren't our counter class. we have a lot of strategy to counter them, we can beat rogues both with destro and demo, with no mandatory talent.
    In 1 vs 1 a warlock has got the potential to Counter any class.
    I recommend this video,

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Evi1Toad View Post
    While playing my warlock, I feel very useless when being bursted/opened up on by rogues...

    Assume your trink is on CD, what do you do when stunned in an opener, stunned again as a finisher and then they pop cloak and are immune to magic for 6 seconds? All I feel like I can do is pop whatever defensive CDs I have up and pray for someone to peel the sneaky bastard off of me.

    I almost always run BGs as GoSac + destro.

    Are there any tips or tricks that you guys use that you feel like sharing?
    Soon as you suspect a rogue set port (max distance it so he can't shadowstep), set gateway if possible. Failing that be demo...axe toss his opener/cloak. Stay in meta as much as possible, leap on CD, CW I believe goes through cloak (it used to, someone want to test this?). Otherwise stick to your instants and just try to win the slugfest. Fear out of axe toss/coil to set up damage. Don't forget to carrion swarm knockback as well.

    If you are destro have the succy/shiv seduce his opener to get cloak, defensive vs his cloak, seduce second round of stuns, then pretty much try to get damage out. You have CB/fear on shadow and your nukes on fire...use them accordingly vs kicks. Save your coil/sfury for your all CD's CB. Try to get immolate on him so he can't stay vanished. RoF is your friend as well.

  10. #10
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunedains View Post
    guys,in my opinion rogues aren't our counter class. we have a lot of strategy to counter them, we can beat rogues both with destro and demo, with no mandatory talent.
    In 1 vs 1 a warlock has got the potential to Counter any class.
    I recommend this video,
    *snip*
    That's not really strategy, that's just a good warlock beating an average rogue... But even then, the video really looks fishy to me, but that's just my opinion.
    Against a good rogue, unless you have a good terrain advantage, you are never going to win 1v1, regardless of how good you are or pretend to be.

  11. #11
    High Overlord Reaction's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    That's not really strategy, that's just a good warlock beating an average rogue... But even then, the video really looks fishy to me, but that's just my opinion.
    Against a good rogue, unless you have a good terrain advantage, you are never going to win 1v1, regardless of how good you are or pretend to be.
    You question Cobrak's integrity?

  12. #12
    Go Demo and use the minion with stun, I've never died by dagger on my alt lock. Dunno how it's nowadays, but atleast tbc->cataclysm it was easy to down rogue just being demo.

  13. #13
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaction View Post
    You question Cobrak's integrity?
    Honestly, have you watched the rogues cooldown and ability usage? To me, it's very obvious that the rogue is just far below cobraks skill level.

    Mehh, as long people ain't going to take it serious and start screaming for warlock nerfs ( which we will be getting regardless), I don't mind it too much.

  14. #14
    Field Marshal krilz's Avatar
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    You cry in a fetal position.

    No, but seriously rogues has always been a thorn in warlocks sides. But it can be countered! The only thing you have to remember is a bit of planning: For every cooldown a rogues uses; you have to counter with something. I haven't played that much PvP in this expansion but what I used to do in the past is when they open up on me (usually Cheap Shot + Kidney Shot) was to trinket the Kidney Shot and run away. If he managed to catch up on me right away and slow me with poisions, I'd use Death Coil to get some more distance. If he trinkets it; you've won, because now you can Fear him with no problem if you use some clever fake-casting. Of course he might use Cloak for this, but then you have to use defensive cooldowns while he's pounding on you.

    If you manage to get a good distance and he uses Sprint to shorten it, use your portal just before he reaches you and get a hit.

    You can possibly save your trinket for the Blind, but I personally think Kidney Shot is more dangerous since he can hit you while it's up.

    As you can see: It requires a lot of planning. It's not impossible but the rogue has the upper-hand... always. I've found beating rogues as affliction being superior because of Curse of Exhaustion but it can be done with Destruction as well (I hardly ever play Demo so I don't know about that).

  15. #15
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    That's not really strategy, that's just a good warlock beating an average rogue... But even then, the video really looks fishy to me, but that's just my opinion.
    Against a good rogue, unless you have a good terrain advantage, you are never going to win 1v1, regardless of how good you are or pretend to be.
    The only time I had any problems with rogues on PTR was when I was playing with them because it's boring to one-shot them :d(duelling).
    I think it's just a gear issue here...
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by krilz View Post
    You cry in a fetal position.

    No, but seriously rogues has always been a thorn in warlocks sides. But it can be countered! The only thing you have to remember is a bit of planning: For every cooldown a rogues uses; you have to counter with something. I haven't played that much PvP in this expansion but what I used to do in the past is when they open up on me (usually Cheap Shot + Kidney Shot) was to trinket the Kidney Shot and run away. If he managed to catch up on me right away and slow me with poisions, I'd use Death Coil to get some more distance. If he trinkets it; you've won, because now you can Fear him with no problem if you use some clever fake-casting. Of course he might use Cloak for this, but then you have to use defensive cooldowns while he's pounding on you.

    If you manage to get a good distance and he uses Sprint to shorten it, use your portal just before he reaches you and get a hit.

    You can possibly save your trinket for the Blind, but I personally think Kidney Shot is more dangerous since he can hit you while it's up.

    As you can see: It requires a lot of planning. It's not impossible but the rogue has the upper-hand... always. I've found beating rogues as affliction being superior because of Curse of Exhaustion but it can be done with Destruction as well (I hardly ever play Demo so I don't know about that).
    Nooooo. I play a Rogue. Never, ever trinket Kidney Shot if he has Blind up. At least not in a 1v1.

    This is what happens. Blind 8s -> sap 8s -> sap4s -> Garrote 4.5s -> Kidney Shot6s -> you just wasted your trinket to be back in a worse position.
    Last edited by Zafire; 2013-03-28 at 10:00 AM.

  17. #17
    Field Marshal krilz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zafire View Post
    Nooooo. I play a Rogue. Never, ever trinket Kidney Shot if he has Blind up. At least not in a 1v1.

    This is what happens. Blind 8s -> sap 8s -> sap4s -> Garrote 4.5s -> Kidney Shot6s -> you just wasted your trinket to be back in a worse position.
    Oh yeah, so true. I completely forgot about Sap

    Hence my suckage in PvP!

  18. #18
    High Overlord dunedains's Avatar
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    For the purpose of this topic i did some duel with few rogues with some experience.
    This is what i did as demo. Talent: coil, blood horror, supremacy, mannoroth's fury. As pet used wrathguard or voidlord. U have to track some rogues cds
    Shadow dance = control
    Shadow blades = control
    cloak of shadow
    With mannaroths fury and hellfire i can prevent the sap from a rogue, with blood horror i can keep the distance at the first inc. I usully pop my imps to put some pressure, trying to push some damage and force cloak of shadow. With portal, leap and geatway i keep some distance.
    When he pops shadow dance i use Sacrifice + Unending Resolve
    When he pops shadowblades = disarm if i got void lord, or coil or others cc.
    When i forced cloak meta form + ds = win.

    I hope that's can help, i don't mean to brag my self in anyway

  19. #19
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    The thing is that Demo is but one spec of three. Demo is the one spec that can do a lot of damage without actually having to hardcast or channel something. The two others simply can't do enough damage without the rogue having plenty of opportunity to completely lock us down. I don't currently run with a Demo spec (come faster, tri-spec!) and I know a lot of others are in the same boat.

  20. #20
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Just one big issue with the whole dueling stuff here. In world pvp and battlegrounds, you don't know if and when a rogue is going to open on you. You won't have a gateway set up and in many cases, you won't have a demonic circle set up either nor have every cooldown available.
    Running around hellfiring everything, using a voidlord, etc are thing that don't happen, since you don't know if a rogue going to open on you or not.

    Discussing how to beat a rogue when fully prepared is going to help little when you have to fight them unprepared, just my 2 cents.

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