better than Ulduar
comparable to Ulduar
a little worse than Ulduar
a lot worse than Ulduar
anyway guild has killed durumu reg, only raid 3x a week, so can't say for the rest of it but i liked ji'kun and jinrokh for tanking...turtle and horridon were boring(tankign with a prot pala on horridon and me aoe'ing adds on a brm)
most tanking fights are just boring taunt when x happens, sigh...aoe fests and standing there doing nothing like tortos(except moving out ofcircles... and out of miniturtles path...) just boring, i loved council, for the same reason i loved ToC, which most people didn't like
i loved ToC for not having any trash, screw me but trash gets old after a while like pulling back on bridge trash in ToT...yawnfest mostly
trash going to council is an aoe fest, with a couple interrupts thrown in, boring...
aside from bashing on trash and bashing on the main reason people didn't like ToC, ulduar just didn't do it for me, i LOVED black temple, omfg loved it.
ToT rates... Hyjal > BT > SSC = sunwell only got 3 bosses in sunwell as current content > ToC > Ulduar > karamight be because it was my first real raid and spooky as hell...omg but getting beast boss out freaked me out..early in the tier... > rest of BC > rest of cata > rest of wrath(yes ICC though it was well i should put it above rest of bc...gruuls and mag weren't as good as icc, it is just that icc lasted SO SO SO long...
now, where does ToT fit into this for me? granted haven't finished it, but for easiness of the bosses it rates under sunwell and even bt / ssc.
every single boss is just a dance so far, freaking loved Gorefiend turning me into a ghost, having to run to the back of the room, and kill my ghosts before they hit raid, or the mana drains in hyjal making it a huge mana management fight, or getting knocked 40 yards into the air, running from the raid because you are turning into an infernal, and getting soulstoned when you are on your way over to the infernal tank...
sunwell is ranked up there for the pure difficulty, not just the fun fight mechanics that add a lot of depth to the fight.
atm fights are, move here or die.
simple dances you just need everyone in the raid to do, no depth.
even with all that ToT does LOOK nice, like ulduar, but i rank it so far under ulduar and Hyjal / BT it isn't even funny.
because the fights, are just adding moves to a dance, its no longer
do one dance and win, while playing with interesting side mechanics(getting knocked up / turning into infernals - ghosts / etc)
it is a dance, then you have to jiggle your foot in middle of the dance, and then go back to initial dance, jiggle other foot for other mechanic...
still a dance just instead of a simple three step its turned into ballet,
but no interesting mechanics anymore,
clockwork on durumu has been around since cthun, nothing new floor filling with bad stuff since heigan, things you stand in to spread damage brutalus(and take to much it increases damage to much) voidzones...to many fights to mention...knockbacks....same thing
honestly knockbacks are the only original thing in that fight because of how it was done, a "cone" initiating from where a tank is standing... knockbacks are still..
so many mechanics very little of it new,
anyway...from a tanking standpoint ToT is poor quality, i could care less if it had the models and details as MC or kara, if it had more interesting fights...
mind you, i am not bashing, there are definitely worse raids than ToT but for all its been veneered prettily, it doesn't hold a tune to the best ones out there.
(i am still subbed, and it's a good enough raid to keep me raiding in reg mode, hopefully heroic after a while, it's just not as good as Blizzard, and some people are making it seem)
maybe heroic will change my opinion, god i hope so, make it so it isn't simple tank swaps...
edit: btw i am using veneered as a simile ToT has a beautiful surface with piss poor actual quality. well take it how you want but i chose it because it fits in my mind, perfectly.
Last edited by Christan; 2013-04-02 at 03:44 PM.
Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.
I can't say yet; we're still working on Council (like every other casual raid in the universe).
I like ToT so far, although I think the tuning is a little too brutal on normal, particularly the ramp up between Jin'rohk and Horridon. But the general design seems cool, and I like big expansive raids. The bosses are neat and judging from LFR have many unique mechanics. Overall, it feels like Blizzard put a lot of effort into it and I'm please on that level.
Ulduar isn't my #1 but it's in my top 5. If ToT keeps up the pace -- and if we actually are able to even clear it at this pace -- it will probably rank pretty high. I couldn't say which would be higher, though.
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Tziva ■ Darsithis ■ Radux ■ Simca ■ Elysia ■ Zaelsino ■ xskarma ■ Arlee ■ Venara
I'm going to revise my ranking now that I've experienced all 12 bosses on 25 man for ToT. I think I'm actually enjoying ToT a bit more than Ulduar. It's a little hard to compare as I was in a completely different guild raiding back then, but the raid really seems to be well thought out both in boss design and appearance. There are some trash packs I could do without (bridge trash), but Ulduar had that too (pre-nerf Ignis trash or Vezax trash). I experienced both from a 25 man perspective and I've only just started heroic ToT, but I think they did a great job with the raid.
Liked that Ulduar had more choice + (the "little girl" robot guarding the door was hilaruous ) And imo Ulduar had some fun tactics on bosses, ToT is superboring for tanks until last boss..
E: Tziva, were casual and after the nerfs every boss are totally doable with like 500avg ilvl raid (Lei Shen is all about doing it right, not gear). Your raid just needs to not cover behind the casual badgee and step up the game a bit
Last edited by Mortalmansikka; 2013-04-03 at 02:45 AM.
Too early to say. Not even half complete at the moment, but so far I like the fights, parts of the environment are very cool, but lore-wise there isn't much too it, and none of the voice acting for the bosses really stands out as something special so far. It's solid, but for now it wouldn't rank that high in my list:
Heart of Fear
Room to move either way, we'll see...
I still don't get why people hold up Ulduar on some huge pedestal. It was fine, but it wasn't OMG ZHE BEZT RAID EVAR. It wasn't perfect. But I'm guessing it was loads of people's first raid or something, so they now look back on it with rosy glasses.
Anyway, I enjoy ToT. Or I would, if I had a halfway decent guild for it.
I always find it amusing how every new raid needs to be compared to Ulduar. It's really not as amazing as everyone thinks; it's very good, don't get me wrong, but it's become this revered raid, only talked about in breathless, excited whispers. I personally think T14 is better than Ulduar, and T15 is shaping up to be even better than that. So y'know.
It is on the same level as Ulduar. A lot of what people think is the best raid is coming from nostalgia from having their first raids. I know I enjoyed ZG and MC when I first started raiding, and really liked seeing Kael'thas shatter his room in The Eye, but just because I saw some awesome things doesn't make them better.
I would go more into how a lot of people are wrong with "Hard modes made you do interesting things" and "You did them during the fight", but that would be incredibly dumb of me to do that.
My favorite is karazhan then ulduar, so far I think ToT got good mechanics and it's not all about nuking the shit out of something for profit. I'm totally enjoying raids now atleast.
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I've only seen the first half through LFR so far, but from what I've seen I wouldn't rate it up there with Ulduar. It's good, and there's some pretty neat stuff, but the aesthetic is nowhere near as varied and interesting as Ulduar's.
The linearity and wonky pacing with some of the trash bothers me a bit as well. I'd say ToT is probably on the tier below Karazhan/Ulduar for me.
The fights in ToT are interesting but I can't escape the feeling that most of the instance is just the remnants of the discarded Zul'drak raid that Blizzard has pulled out the gutter. It's visuals and layout just aren't very interesting.
Most of the bosses made me shrug even though they are some of Blizzards best to date.
Fact of the matter is that with all their money and resources Blizzard are still failing to deliver original, interesting and cohesive raids in a consistent manner. It's really quite pathetic that they haven't been able to top Karazhan and Ulduar in two expansions even though their boss design has improved greatly.
It is obvious that Blizzard just rushes out most of the tiers and don't have time to make something special.
Take ICC for example - they couldn't even be bothered putting an epic staircase up to the Lich king or make any sort of interesting use of space in the design of the instance. Why couldn't someone design an interesting winding tower akin to Kharazan? ToT, the so called "Ulduar" of MoP is just a single corridor.
Last edited by flubadub; 2014-09-18 at 10:01 PM.