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  1. #1

    Idea to replace SnD

    [Killing Frenzy] You eviscerate and envenom critical hits have a 20% chance per combo point to increase your attack speed by 10% for 10 seconds, this effect stacks up to three times
    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Why do you want it gone? It would make the rotation a lot less interesting for combat and this change would slow down the ramp up of mutilate even further

  3. #3
    Obviously all other abilities should be balanced around this, now they are balanced around a 40% atk speed bonus with a 100%ish uptime, no doubt it would be a big dps loss without a proper tuning of other active skills.

  4. #4
    If they replaced snd the point would be to make the specs do something different not give them all the same thing again.

  5. #5
    Why not just remove it and bump up assassin's resolve and sanguinary vein.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-27 at 05:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by slyforce View Post
    Why do you want it gone? It would make the rotation a lot less interesting for combat and this change would slow down the ramp up of mutilate even further
    That is the whole idea for mutilate since other classes don't have to deal with this degree of rampup. GC did agree that it was too much maintenance and he was considering removing it for a couple of specs

  6. #6
    SnD is fine for combat - basically it makes the flurry of attacks more or less the same speed as dualwielding daggers (without the buff ofc). Since combat goes for slow weapons, it makes sense also for making easier balancing (trinket uptime and such). Even from a lore perspective/spec flavour SnD is good for combat since it's the spec dealing with weapons and being toe-to-toe with enemies.

    Just it doesn't make sense for the other two: Assa focuses on poisons, Sub focuses on dots and stealth. Removing SnD will make room for another finisher - it's not like that juggling 3 finishers is bad, it's just that every spec has the same three finishers.

    Rutpture can easily morph into Toxic Brew for Assa, being the same dot just dealing poison damage and scaling with mastery, removing the damage component from Venomous Wounds. Since we already have a dot and a heavy-hitting finisher, we need something else to add.

    There a lot of space to move and a lot of good ideas around, just we won't see them before 6.0

    EDIT: same goes for BF - instead of making it a lame cleave and a bad aoe mechanic, just nerf it to a reasonable amount and give all the specs a cleave mechanic.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post

    EDIT: same goes for BF - instead of making it a lame cleave and a bad aoe mechanic, just nerf it to a reasonable amount and give all the specs a cleave mechanic.
    And buff CT for God's sake!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    EDIT: same goes for BF - instead of making it a lame cleave and a bad aoe mechanic, just nerf it to a reasonable amount and give all the specs a cleave mechanic.
    And if you're going to go that far to reduce spec identity, why not give combat and subtlety and execute too, while you're at it.

    Blade flurry is fine as a combat-only ability, especially with the 5.2 change.

  9. #9
    I never mentioned to make BF a class-wide ability. And i'm fine with combat being the king of cleaves IF the other two specs have similar tools (like how assassination spreads rupture on multiple targets).

    The nerfed BF because a) it was a too strong cleave b) combat needed better aoe.

    I don't think a bleeding spread for Sub and a poison-themed splash ability would be bad.

    EDIT: with current BF, combat has lost more his identity than else. The cleave is a shadow of the old days, aoe-wise still it suffers, single target damage has been "fixed" through a lame OP set bonus.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-28 at 12:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    And buff CT for God's sake!
    Don't know if a buff or revamp is needed - afaik the only spec that makes a good use of it is Sub, because of the bleeding damage bonus. The other two sepcs simply don't have a use for it (CT can be easily a Sub only move).

  10. #10

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Don't know if a buff or revamp is needed - afaik the only spec that makes a good use of it is Sub, because of the bleeding damage bonus. The other two sepcs simply don't have a use for it (CT can be easily a Sub only move).
    CT should be inverted in how it works, 75% as instant dmg and 25% as dot

  12. #12
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
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    Pressing that SnD button is so booooooring. It should be autotriggered by some abilities, but combo generator crits should trigger two stacks of it, and a finisher should trigger two stacks by default and a finisher crit triggers all stacks.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    What do you think?
    Absolutely horrid idea. While SnD is passive damage, it is an active ability. If you just flat out replace it by a thing that goes off automatically, you just dumbed down our already simple rotation massively.

    I am not a huge fan of SnD for all 3 specs, but I am even less of a fan of making our rotations easier than they already are.

  14. #14
    The problem SnD introduces to the rotations (staleness due to increased passive damage) is not the result of the button - it's a result of the effect. Your idea is "bad" not because it's inherently bad - but because it doesn't address the problem. You made SnD passive, you didn't remove it.

    I've already written pages on this shit... Too much of a hassle to repeat :P
    Last edited by Incineration; 2013-03-29 at 02:02 AM.

  15. #15
    Its not so much about SnD being removed, its about less haste for us and more direct damage. But SnD made passive would help with our clunkyness too, yes, just not with stacks like this here... then our opening damage (which is already abysmal low) would be even more low.

  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk willtron's Avatar
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    PvE I can see the want, but PvP it's just an annoyance really. (to keep SnD)

    The biggest thing is actually the energy regen, not so much the haste.


    I'd be content with something like 'Everytime you hit with ability X or Ability X deals damage, you gain Y amount of attack speed and energy regeneration for Z amount of time.'

    Assassination > Deadly Poison proc
    Subtlety > A bleed
    Combat > Revealing Strike

    The only problem I see with removing SnD as an active ability is losing out on the Mastery bonus for it as a Sub Rogue.
    Last edited by willtron; 2013-03-30 at 01:36 PM.
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  17. #17
    The energy regen that sub gets from slice N Dice is far to important.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Carni View Post
    The energy regen that sub gets from slice N Dice is far to important.
    Not really. Now I mean if they just remove SnD and do nothing in return or introduce a super gimped one instead and give us nothing else, sub would be screwed... though combat and assassination would be massively screwed as well. So long as they rebalance our numbers, losing SnD and/or the energy from it isn't a big deal.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire FAILoZOFF's Avatar
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    SnD is fine, stop crying over non-existent issue, it does its job well, it might not be THAT interesting but spamming ss/mutilate/stab isnt that fun either when you khink about it, heck even using finishers isn't very interesting- its all these elements together and not some specific elements that makes class/spec fun
    now even rets and ferals have some sort of "not interesting buff to keep up", rogues use light weapns so it makes sense that they get to swing them really fast
    so yes, i don`t see how using snd is any less fun than using evis for instrance, even by changing this ability you wont gain that much "fun" as you prolly imagine

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Carni View Post
    The energy regen that sub gets from slice N Dice is far to important.
    If SnD got removed, Blizzard would probably put the energy regen back on Recup.

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