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  1. #21
    Titan Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    I think it's meant for a group of 3 friends. Sure you can queue alone, but I for one will be queuing with guildmates who don't raid.
    Hopefully they have the ilevel requirement high enough to ensure some semblance of competence in the groups that are randomly formed.

    Maybe they can extend this model to heroic dungeons as well. No idea why they're doing this weird flip-flop thing where heroics dungeons are piss-easy, but heroic scenarios (at least, as of now) are semi challenging. They can just make heroic scenarios and heroic dungeons on equal difficulty levels, and leave normal scenarios and normal dungeons as the filler.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily III, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    Why, oh Why are we whining about this?
    I really don't know.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by XstenZ View Post
    I sure as hell didnt ask for harder content.
    Feel free to not do it? I mean, it's not as if there is any art asset in this expansion (well, aside maybe from Ra-den) that these could be considered to be needed to see. You won't even need to do them to be competitive in PvP.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

  4. #24
    Fluffy Kitten Fhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Maybe they can extend this model to heroic dungeons as well. No idea why they're doing this weird flip-flop thing where heroics dungeons are piss-easy, but heroic scenarios (at least, as of now) are semi challenging.
    Challenge modes.

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  5. #25
    Legendary! judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    so basically average players who have stayed current with gear progression in the 500 plus ilvl will not find them difficult at all?
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  6. #26
    Have no fear, folks will bitch, and they'll be nerfed in no time.
    "Look around you. We're all liars here, and every one of us is better than you" - PB

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans Porimlys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post

    Maybe they can extend this model to heroic dungeons as well. No idea why they're doing this weird flip-flop thing where heroics dungeons are piss-easy, but heroic scenarios (at least, as of now) are semi challenging.
    Challenge Modes!

    "Heroic" is just the name for max level dungeons now, basically.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    From the sound of the objectives, they are thing that you HAVE to do to beat the scenario anyway. You just have to do them quickly or skillfully. They aren't actual extra activities.

    I base this off the screen shot, where Borokhula is the final boss you need to beat to finish the scenario.

    I hope these get applied to LFR. Imagine if you got extra valor/gold for stuff like [ ] Don't fall into the hole on Elegon. [ ] Don't get naked on Spirit Kings. [ ] Don't trigger a crush on Garalon.

    People might actually try a bit harder. Rewards might have to be individual rather than group, due to lack of coordination.
    Well they call them "bonus" objectives so to me that implies that they are side objectives like optional bosses. Also the one screenshot that shows the objectives doesnt say to me that they are completed in the normal course of the main objective. You might not need to kill Borokhula to defend the brew.

    I do think that some of the extra objectives are like doing a speed run of the scenario where you will get them done in time or not but there is likely to be optional stuff you dont have to do to complete the scenario.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    Well they call them "bonus" objectives so to me that implies that they are side objectives like optional bosses. Also the one screenshot that shows the objectives doesnt say to me that they are completed in the normal course of the main objective. You might not need to kill Borokhula to defend the brew.

    I do think that some of the extra objectives are like doing a speed run of the scenario where you will get them done in time or not but there is likely to be optional stuff you dont have to do to complete the scenario.
    I think calling them "bonus" objectives is highly contestable. The whole reason you'll be running these is for valour (let's not discuss the 0.01% for gear) and you'll be aiming for the objectives regardless in order to earn what you signed up for. Not to mention the fact that traditionally "bonus" objectives mean you go out of your way to complete, not because you manage to avoid queuing with randoms.

  10. #30
    Titan Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    Challenge modes.
    Except Challenge modes don't award gear and can't be (efficiently) PuGed. I'm not saying that I think they should be; I'm merely saying that now that Blizzard is dancing around with "casual difficulties" again, real Heroic Dungeons would be great to plug back in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Porimlys
    Challenge Modes!

    "Heroic" is just the name for max level dungeons now, basically.
    And there's no good reason for that. Why not just have "max level normal dungeons" and "heroic" dungeons again? People that like heroics the way they are now could still do normal dungeons. People that want something more challenging, with a shot at better gear, can do more the more "challenging" heroics.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily III, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    And there's no good reason for that. Why not just have "max level normal dungeons" and "heroic" dungeons again? People that like heroics the way they are now could still do normal dungeons. People that want something more challenging, with a shot at better gear, can do more the more "challenging" heroics.
    yeah that model did a lot for subscriptions in 4.0
    -in 5 man dungeons, Arms Warriors again are the weakest link in the chain as they require 3X amount of healing as other classes and therefore die much more frequently and receive less healing in general, as with the amount of mana spent to keep an Arms Warrior alive the healer can heal all other members and himself.

  12. #32
    Titan Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    yeah that model did a lot for subscriptions in 4.0
    Those people can do LFR instead. That didn't exist in 4.0.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily III, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    yeah that model did a lot for subscriptions in 4.0
    I'm not sure dungeons were the factor that lost them millions of subs, lol.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDDGuides View Post
    I'm not sure dungeons were the factor that lost them millions of subs, lol.
    Actually, I think they were a big part of it, along with the overtuned raids.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

  15. #35
    Isn't this a good thing? That the game has some more challenging content to offer for those who require it?

  16. #36
    Where's all this talk about "good luck doing this with average random scenario runner" etc coming from? It very clearly states "You need to have a full group". There's no random involved - it's you and the people you invite.

  17. #37
    Merely a Setback Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Actually, I think they were a big part of it, along with the overtuned raids.
    That and not a lot of Endgame content but /shrug
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Joán View Post
    Where's all this talk about "good luck doing this with average random scenario runner" etc coming from? It very clearly states "You need to have a full group". There's no random involved - it's you and the people you invite.
    By this logic, nobody would be doing heroics with randoms because it's not as efficient.
    In the grand scheme of things, I believe most of the playerbase will be using the finder feature to do these heroic scenarios simply for convenience and thus the bonus objectives somewhat apply. Though I'll admit I'm feeling now that the bonuses are there purely for organised groups. It makes sense in a way.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDDGuides View Post
    By this logic, nobody would be doing heroics with randoms because it's not as efficient.
    In the grand scheme of things, I believe most of the playerbase will be using the finder feature to do these heroic scenarios simply for convenience and thus the bonus objectives somewhat apply. Though I'll admit I'm feeling now that the bonuses are there purely for organised groups. It makes sense in a way.
    I wont be doing this in the group finder, Ill just get guildies lol

  20. #40
    Warchief Skeletroll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennía View Post
    Well on the plus side since you only need 3 people for the scenario you can just invite 2 friends/guildies because 2 is a lot easier to get than 4 which will make it much easier
    I have no friends and my guild is dead since MoP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    I think that's the point. Scenarios turned out to be popular so they are expanding on the feature to add heroic level challenges for LFR raid loot. I personally like them because it's not the standard tank, healer, 3 dps strat. You have to be somewhat creative depending on the comp you get.
    I think they are "popular" because they were made kinda efficient, instant queue, ~5 min run, nice chunk of valor. I would not run them at all if there was no valor bonus/day because they are just boring imo. Not sure if i would run them even on freshly-dinged toon, as i never get anything from bags. Only times i get anything, it's +str crossbow or offspec gear that i will never use.
    Last edited by Skeletroll; 2013-03-30 at 07:57 AM.
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