1. #1

    Doing extremely low dps as fire on Lei SHen Logs included*

    Please guys i am just looking for help if you see anything that sticks out that can possibly improve my dps please let me know what i can do.

    Just asking for help i've been really frustrated lately with the terrible RNG i've been having as far as heating up procs go...

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lolcrf6n5kau8hxr/

    looking for help!

    Considering to just go frost until i get even more crit as if i don't have enough already to play fire.
    Last edited by Reforge; 2013-03-29 at 04:16 AM.

  2. #2
    Looking quickly, your NT uptime is bad... I know he is immune during parts of the fight and you may or may not have adds to hit, but the pyroblast dot has nearly 10% more uptime...

    You are nearly 1% over hitcap, thats a bunch of wasted stats. If you cannot forge out of any more hit (which i HIGHLY doubt), drop some of your crit hit gems.

    Your combustions are ticking for an average of 20k, thats ok... but your average should be higher, because when you get combustions off with cds they should be higher, usually a combustion that ticks for 20k is a minimum for me.

    On your longest attempt you cast 79 fireballs... and 79 scorches. You need to move less, and fireball more.

    Looking at your armory, you are using incanters ward...? If you use only the passive it will come in behind Invocation by a few percent, and with mismanagement of the active it will fall further behind. The only way to get the most out of it is to be able to literally trigger it on cooldown, or save it a few seconds to stack with cds. Just learn to use (or go back to using) invocation.

    Other than that, your trinkits seem really poor for fire, as having one with a secondary you can reforge to crit is very helpful, and your weapon is still only a 504.

    Your crit is really good, better than mine, so you justneed to perfect getting a good alter time lined up so you can combust well.

    One other thing, im not 100% sure where its at, but i know there is another haste softcap in the 3100-3200 range. try hitting that one and it should bump your dps a bit as well.

    TLDR: you are probably moving too much and not getting the most out of combustion, but this fight is just a harder one to do well on as fire.
    Last edited by Grumash; 2013-03-29 at 06:00 AM.

  3. #3
    im not 1% over hit cap btw, look at the hit rating i have, pay no attention to the % that's a mistake on the armory.

    Also i know fire isn't the best for that fight which is why i went frost.

    Thanks for the feedback grumash

  4. #4
    The Patient royals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    One other thing, im not 100% sure where its at, but i know there is another haste softcap in the 3100-3200 range. try hitting that one and it should bump your dps a bit as well.
    3056 for non gobs WITH spell haste from the raid for 23 ticks of Glyphed combust. 3175 for non gobs WITHOUT spell haste from raid for 22 ticks of glyphed combust.
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  5. #5
    Mechagnome Xzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    Looking at your armory, you are using incanters ward...? If you use only the passive it will come in behind Invocation by a few percent, and with mismanagement of the active it will fall further behind. The only way to get the most out of it is to be able to literally trigger it on cooldown, or save it a few seconds to stack with cds. Just learn to use (or go back to using) invocation.
    I ain't gonna comment on the rest as I consider myself terrible at Fire, but as far as IW vs Invo goes, some math was done in one older thread and the conclusion was that Invo barely ever comes ahead of IW and the only fight you'd even consider it would be completely stationary patchwerk-style fight... So useless in this tier.

    Please correct me if this no longer applies for some reason.

    edit: the thread http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20438725
    Last edited by Xzan; 2013-03-29 at 10:57 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Xzan View Post
    I ain't gonna comment on the rest as I consider myself terrible at Fire, but as far as IW vs Invo goes, some math was done in one older thread and the conclusion was that Invo barely ever comes ahead of IW and the only fight you'd even consider it would be completely stationary patchwerk-style fight... So useless in this tier.

    Please correct me if this no longer applies for some reason.

    edit: the thread http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20438725
    This thread is good, but assumes the player will play with a certain degree of shittyness. It is not 'barely ever ahead' of IW, its ahead by a few percent. The thread says that if you can use 58/60 seconds of the buff it beats IW (NOTE this assumes all his math was not flawed, and I dont think anyone checked). So what instances will create the situation where you COULD DPS WITH IW but NOT WITH INVOKE for those 2 seconds? Help me out if you can, but I cannot think of one. This means that as long as you are refreshing your buff just as it falls off it will come ahead, and this is not hard to do. Lets say you are moving and so you cannot refresh it on time, this is where IW WILL pull ahead, so it depends on the fight. Times that you are unable to dps with INVOKE you are ALSO unable to dps with IW. Now also 6% compared to 15% is big with cooldown stacking as well, so you will see much bigger combusts with invoke as compared to IW. Note this thread was only about the passive, so using the active introduces many many more variables and is much harder to manage IW effectively.

    TLDR: Only really heavy movement fights or players who perform fairly suboptimally will see any increase from IW over invoke.

    Having played them all as invoke fire, I would say you could reasonably use IW on durumu and MAYBE tortos and expect similar or higher dps, because of movement neccesary. Tortos (and probably other bosses) would depend on your strategy. Also if you have blazing speed, you can get an invoke off during disintigration beam on durumu. I personally use invoke on all 12 bosses.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-29 at 05:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Muphrid View Post
    Why don't we ask a different question here: let's say we have these dead-time cycles where we can't get the full benefit of a channeled Invocation. How many full, uninterrupted cycles do we need to make up for that?

    The answer is not many. Let's say the overall damage multiplier of Invocation for an abbreviated cycle is 1.15*s/(s+3), where s < 60. The damage multiplier of passive Incanter's Ward is always 1.06. We get a table like this:

    Code:
    Uptime   Invo   IW
    5	0.7188	1.06
    10	0.8846	1.06
    15	0.9583	1.06
    20	1.0000	1.06
    25	1.0268	1.06
    30	1.0455	1.06
    35	1.0592	1.06
    40	1.0698	1.06
    45	1.0781	1.06
    50	1.0849	1.06
    55	1.0905	1.06
    60	1.0952	1.06
    Note that the breakeven point is about 35.3 seconds.

    Now, how many full cycles N do we need to recover and break even with IW, for s < 35.3 seconds? We can setup a simple equation to answer this question. Let I(s) be the Invo multiplier, and W = 1.06. The equation is then

    Code:
    63 N I(60) - (s+3) I(s) = W (63 N + s + 3)
    Solving for N yields

    Code:
    N = [W - I(s)][s+3]/[63{I(60) - W}]
    A table of these values is given below.

    Code:
    Uptime	Invo	IW	Breakeven cycles
    5	0.7188	1.06	1.23
    10	0.8846	1.06	1.03
    15	0.9583	1.06	0.82
    20	1.0000	1.06	0.62
    25	1.0268	1.06	0.42
    30	1.0455	1.06	0.22
    35	1.0592	1.06	0.01
    TLDR: a single abbreviated Invocation cycle almost always breaks even with passive IW after one full, unabbreviated cycle, or two at the most. And that's all before considering haste.
    figured id add this too, its from the later pages in that thread. Basically it says that for every Invoke, you break even with the passive of IW at 36 seconds, and any dps time after that will make it a dps increase.
    Last edited by Grumash; 2013-03-29 at 11:13 PM.

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