File server build

[googz]

Just added yet another computer to our house and later this year I'll be building a HTPC. Thinking about building a file server now. This will be a first for me and while I have a good understanding I would appreciate any input from you guys.

What I want:
-Cheap: I want to use quality parts, but no overkill. Needs to do the job intended and no more.
-Small: Will start with 2 storage drives (dual 2tb in raid 1), but will possibly want 2 more.
-Silence: don't even want to hear the HDD's (only part I don't want to hold back on, extra expense on sound dampening case is ok)

Concerns:
-Speed of file access: If I look at the music on my girlfriends computer there's always some lag when I first open the main music folder. Granted she is using my 7 year old gaming rig with a Q6600 on a 680i. Is this an issue I will still be looking at?
-Maintenance: Trying to decide how I want to set this up monitor wise. I don't want to have a dedicated monitor and would probably go with wireless keyboard and mouse. Thinking about using the TV I have in our computer room as it's monitor.

Questions:
-If I run Raid 1 using say 2x 2tb drives, would I be able to change one to a 4tb and then replace the other with another 4tb (upgrading my space w/o adding extra drives)
-Has anybody had any experience with fanless PSU's?
-Would it be a better idea to just roll my server and HTPC into one build? Case size wouldn't be a huge issue as long as it isn't a full tower.

I've already started looking into this and going to continue. This build will probably take place 2+ months from now being that I'm currently without a pay day, but I don't see any reason for needing to switch anything to "tomorrows" tech within my time frame.

Any suggestions, builds and general help would much appreciated.

[Tahapenes]

I left off the hard drives from this, but this gives you an idea of what it would cost for parts:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD A4-5300 3.4GHz Dual-Core Processor ($49.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A85X-ITX Mini ITX FM2 Motherboard ($103.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.50 @ Newegg)
Case: Lian-Li PC-Q25B Mini ITX Tower Case ($127.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Rosewill 350W ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $361.43
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-29 01:29 EDT-0400)

I would suggest looking at using either FreeNAS or OpenFiler for your choices on file server. Note above, I used only one RAM stick in case you do decide to make a fairly large array (the MB has 7 SATA 3 ports, so you can have 7 drives just from there). You may need to get molex to SATA power adapters (as the PSU appears to be mostly Molex connectors, but those adaapters are fairly cheap, about $3 to $4 per and you can have a single molex go to 2 SATA power connectors). The case will also be more than adequate with enough space for up to 7 3.5 drives. If you go with FreeNAS, you will want to get a 8G USB stick to be where you install FreeNAS to.


FreeNAS is pretty CPU insensitive, it is more RAM intensive.

FreeNAS also is Web based for Admin once you set it up. You'll technically only need the video for the initial setup and then after that you can pretty much do everything else from another machine through a web browser.

As to your first question, not really as the 4TB drive will size itself down to 2TB in order to make the mirror. What you would really need to do is attach the 4TB, copy the data over from the 2TB drive, then get another 4TB driver and mirror them.

As to fanless PSU, in a situation like this is should be a non-issue. Seasonic does make a fanless PSU that is around 400W, but it's also fairly expensive for that size (it's also totally modular) as it's around $100.

You could roll them together, but it would be kind of overkill as the HTPC wouldn't require the RAM that a FreeNAS file server would and the FreeNAS file server wouldn't need graphics really.

[Deleted]

I have very little experience with fileservers, but I hear the WD Red drives are suited best for NAS solutions. Just a general tip. The guy above me seems to know a lot more about it!

[Biernot]

FSU
I actually would advise against a fanless PSU. At the load level your psu will be running (we are talking less than 100W here), if you even have a halfway decent psu, you won't hear it at all. Additionally if your psu is fanless, you would probably need some kind of additional case ventilation, which makes a fanless psu kinda pointless.
My advice would be a ~300W 80+bronze unit, e.g. the 300W Seasonic.

Hard drives
The suggestion from Itsredd would also be my choice. WDs Caviar Red are the first choice for a file server / NAS. They are low-power / low-heat drives, certified for 24/7 use. Also they are fairly silent.

Case
Lian-Li is always a good choice, as they are well-build and look very nice. A decent alternative for a small-form-factor case would be the Fractal Design Node 304. Even a little bit smaller than the Lian-Li Q25, but space for up to 6 hard drives.

CPU/MB/RAM
- It doesn't really matter if you pick Intel or AMD, just make sure that the board has at least 5 sata ports, so you have an additional port besides your 4 storage drives.
- 8GB RAM seems totally overkill to me. Keep in mind, that this thing will stream some videos and music, and maybe a little bit more. You could go down to like 1-2 GB RAM and still don't notice any real performance difference. If you would buy a pre-made NAS for that purpose, they would come with less than 1GB and still perform flawlessly.

[googz]

How would the Lian Li cases suggested compare to the Fractal Define R4 and the Corsair 550D in terms of noise? Size wouldn't be an issue for me as much as the noise levels.

---------- Post added 2013-03-29 at 07:14 PM ----------

Also what Intel CPU would be recommended? While I am impressed with the APU's, I'm still not a fan of AMD in general. I may wait and see what Haswell brings to the table for their lower end CPU's.

[Tahapenes]

How would the Lian Li cases suggested compare to the Fractal Define R4 and the Corsair 550D in terms of noise? Size wouldn't be an issue for me as much as the noise levels.

If you want to go with a larger case, I would choose something with a large number of external 5.25 slots as you can put IcyDocks into those slots and typically convert 3 5.25 slots into 4 to 5 3.5 bays depending on which IcyDock (or other manufacturer) you choose to go with. With the MB I listed, you really only need 7 3.5 bays and the Lian-Li I listed does that easily enough in a fairly compact setup.

Also what Intel CPU would be recommended? While I am impressed with the APU's, I'm still not a fan of AMD in general. I may wait and see what Haswell brings to the table for their lower end CPU's.

For a file server, CPU isn't as much of an issue as memory (as I noted above). In the case of FreeNAS, the rule of thumb is 1G of RAM per TB of hard drive space. So, an APU will work just as easily as one of the Intel CPUs, and more over will be cheaper (espeically with the ITX board I listed above).

[teddabear]

For a file server the cheapest I would go for a PSU is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139026

[Biernot]

How would the Lian Li cases suggested compare to the Fractal Define R4 and the Corsair 550D in terms of noise? Size wouldn't be an issue for me as much as the noise levels.[COLOR="red"]

Well... both those cases have sound dampening, which the lian li has not. How much that really matters depends on the components inside. Generally, fan noise should not be an issue at all, because you can set them so low that they are inaudible without any additional sound dampening.

What is the predominant issue is hard drive noise. A hard drive produces three kinds of noise:
(1) Noise from the rotation itself (constant, mostly high-pitched whine)
(2) Noise from data access (clacking, when the reading head jumps around the platter)
(3) Vibration transmitted to the case (secondary effect from both points above)

To counter these three noise sources, you have a couple of options:
- slower rpm: The spinning sound is both quieter and less annoying with a 5400rpm drive compared to a 7200rpm one. They also produce a little bit less vibration.
- avoiding a direct sound path: When your case has a fan opening directly between the hard drive and your ear, especially (1) will be more noticeable. So in this regard, cases with with front doors like those mentioned above are preferable.
- sound dampening: This helps with all of the noise issues, because it swallows at least part of the higher noises and also reduces (3) (because of it's sheer weight)
- rubber suspension: Helps a ton against (3) and (2). Also reduces the transmission of (1) to the case to basically zero (if you have a tight connection from hdd to case, the case acts as an amplifier for (1) ).

A good silent case/build should feature all of the above measures, but be prepared to deal with some setup-specific problems that only become apparent after actually building the computer.

Example:
As you can see, i have the Fractal R4 and i love it. I have 3 hard drives in it (all 5400rpm) and i don't hear them at all. Even when i access them, the (2) sounds are barely audible from 50cm away. But what i noticed is that when both my 2TB drives are spinning, they produce quit a bit of vibration, that even the rubber mounting can not negate completely. And the problem is that, because they are identical drives, they vibrate in sync (or nearly in sync, with like 0.3 rpm difference) causing an oscillating (from zero to max back to zero in about 3sec) vibration, that even though the case is very solid, is still audible. With a normal computer that would not be an issue, because all other noises are louder, but mine is so silent, that it becomes noticeable.
Also, and this is the only flaw i have yet encountered with the case, the bottom dust filter is not 100% tight fitting and rattles a bit from this vibration. But this is fixed with a layer or two of tape at the right place to close the gap.
I have yet to test this, but i might reduce this vibration by putting those two hdds into different hard drive cages (currently they are both in the upper cage).

As a note: The rubber mounting in the hdd sleds in the R4 is fairly tight, which is not the best for vibration dampening (but most cases are not really better in that regard). If you want the absolute best hard drive noise reduction, i would suggest something like this: Sharkoon Vibe Fixer (fits into a 5.25 bay). But then again, a case which allows for the mounting of enough hard drives in this fashion has probably
- worse sound dampening
- worse cooling for the hard drives.

Also what Intel CPU would be recommended? While I am impressed with the APU's, I'm still not a fan of AMD in general. I may wait and see what Haswell brings to the table for their lower end CPU's.

You can use basically any 1155 intel cpu, as computing power is not an issue here. I would suggest a Pentium G6xx / G8xx / G2xxx, or if you want to, an i3. You might want to look at the xxxT models, because they have an even lower TDP of only 35W. They are a little bit more expensive, but not overly so. You could cool them passively with mid-size heatsink. (e.g. Hyper 212 without fan)

[googz]

Ya, one of my biggest concerns really is the HDD mounting options each case has. While I'm not worried about the quality of some of them, I'm aware that they aren't always as solid as they might seem. Several years ago I had a WD raptor and I ended up having to rig up my own mounting solution to keep the vibration down cause it was getting to be very annoying.

I'm leaning towards the 550D now for a few reasons:
-A few reviews I've seen has proven it to be the better solution for sound dampening.
-Thanks to Tahapenes for reminding me about using the 5.25" bays for more docking solutions. Hot swap ability is kinda intriguing for this.
-I've yet to experience this case

One more question. Where/what would be the recommended way to install FreeNAS?

[Biernot]

But keep in mind, that those hot-swap solutions don't have any kind of vibration/noise dampening. Sometimes they even are equipped with small fans that are not that quiet... If your goal is silence, stay away from them.

[googz]

This is what I have decided on so far.

I have a HDD in an older HP that I will use to install FreeNAS on, but I'm concerned about the speed of the HDD (It's Sata, but I've yet to check any specs on it). Will that have any noticeable baring on the performance? I just want to make sure that when opening my folder with over 900gigs of lossless music that it doesn't lag to much.

I've chosen the R4 for the massive amounts of internal bays and will try one of the IcyDock solutions in the 5.25" slots. I'm very interested in a hot swap option for this system.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD A4-5300 3.4GHz Dual-Core Processor ($49.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A85X Extreme6 ATX FM2 Motherboard ($99.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($56.49 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Red 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($107.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Western Digital Red 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($107.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 450W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($85.85 @ NCIX US)
Total: $628.27
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-01 13:14 EDT-0400)

[Biernot]

The speed of the system drive shouldn't really matter at all. Once the system is loaded up, it will nearly 100% from ram. Just be aware that older drives can be quite loud.

The psu is overkill, but you do not get much lower with good quality. An alternative could be the Seasonic 360 G, which is also 25$ cheaper

[Loyrl]

This was my $362.58 freenas setup. The USB3 doesn't work with my version of freenas. I am not sure if they have updated it or not yet. I'll double check on the noise, but I don't notice it, I am used to my normal PC always being on. The only issue I have had is after I changed from Win7 to Win8 on my PC I was having connection issues while running ClassicShell, I uninstalled it the other day and haven't had any network issues connecting to my freenas. Freenas is recommended minimum of 6GB ram, and it is installed and running off the flash drive. I already had 2 2tb drives. They are not included in the price.

1 x COOLER MASTER Storm Scout SGC-2000-KKN1-GP Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

1 x G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model F3-1866C10D-16GAB

1 x Patriot Supersonic Xpress 8GB USB 3.0 Flash Drive Model PSF8GXPUSB

1 x Antec EA-430 Green 430W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply

1 x AMD A8-5600K Trinity 3.6GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) Socket FM2 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU (CPU + GPU) with DirectX 11 Graphic ...

1 x MSI FM2-A75MA-E35 FM2 AMD A75 (Hudson D3) SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

[googz]

The psu is overkill, but you do not get much lower with good quality. An alternative could be the Seasonic 360 G, which is also 25$ cheaper

Ya, I chose the PSU for the amount of sata power cables. It was the cheapest for the amount it has. I'm picky and don't want to use a whole bunch of molex to sata dongles.

I might go for a cheaper MoBo, but I like the fact that this one has a good amount of sata connections and that they're 90° from the board unlike most m-atx boards.

After reading about the memory usage of FreeNAS I might just go ahead and bump it up to 16gb.

[Tahapenes]

Ya, I chose the PSU for the amount of sata power cables. It was the cheapest for the amount it has. I'm picky and don't want to use a whole bunch of molex to sata dongles.

I might go for a cheaper MoBo, but I like the fact that this one has a good amount of sata connections and that they're 90° from the board unlike most m-atx boards.

After reading about the memory usage of FreeNAS I might just go ahead and bump it up to 16gb.

Save some cash on the PSU by using the following: Molex to Dual Sata converter. For $4, you can get two sata power connectors for one molex power. Likewise, you really don't need that big of a PSU since hard drives don't pull that much power.

[Biernot]

Ya, I chose the PSU for the amount of sata power cables. It was the cheapest for the amount it has. I'm picky and don't want to use a whole bunch of molex to sata dongles.

I might go for a cheaper MoBo, but I like the fact that this one has a good amount of sata connections and that they're 90° from the board unlike most m-atx boards.

After reading about the memory usage of FreeNAS I might just go ahead and bump it up to 16gb.

The memory usage of FreeNAS is only that high if you use the ZFS files system with Deduplication (=Software Raid). If you use the hardware raid of your motherboard and only use the system for home storage (videos, images, music), then the actual needs are way lower.

You need to keep in mind what your performance need is. It's not that there are 20 clients simultaneously using the FreeNAS for professional work. If used as a home storage, you will have more like one client pulling a few megabytes every few minutes while streaming music... That is a totally different set of requirements.
For your needs, you could very well also use a NAS box (e.g. QNAP or Synology) and if you look at their hardware specs***, then you might see what is really needed for your usage profile...


*** those NAS boxes have usually a cpu in the Intel Atom range (or even less) and 1GB RAM or less! e.g. Synology 413j with a single core 1.6GHz cpu and 512MB ram...