1. #1

    Higher end gearing in t15 (fire)

    So my guild is working on heroics, and we are running into some difficulties with our dps just not being quite where we want it to be, so as a dutiful mage, I want to ask for a bit of clarity on a few things.

    Simcraft weighs my stats at Crit>Haste>Mastery, however I have always thought that it weighted haste as each point being worth an ammount of the hastecaps, so in reality it is not as valuable as simmed until that cap is reached, so I would hit the 3056 softcap and go for mastery. This strategy was confirmed through looking at the gear of high end mages in top guilds like kuznam, blatty (even though he is a warlock now), ataxus, blkfacedmage etc. Recently I have noticed they seem to be hitting the 5-8k ranges in haste and have a good ammount of reforging towards haste, and their mastery values are very low, at ~14-18%. I myself have about 21% with far worse gear. Is there a hastecap in that range they are aiming for, or does haste truly outperform mastery even without meeting a cap?

    Also, I have seen many mages foregoing our t15 in favor of the strong crit pieces with heavy socketing options, like the legs off lei shen. Is 2pc or 4pc worth getting this tier as opposed to just taking all offpieces and abandoning tier (im guessing thunderforged comes into play here)?

  2. #2
    What you see is due to all mages now reaching the next combustion tick gained at 17.44% haste(which is gained with the raid buffs).

  3. #3
    Haste always outweights mastery:

    "Note that haste caps aren't worth going for, you should let them come naturally unless you are extremely close to one." (www(dot)methodwow(dot)com/board/showthread.php?11363-MoP-Fire-Mage-Guide)

  4. #4
    Totally agree, and there's also a huge reason why haste is good:
    The new rppm system on trinkets and legendary meta gems.
    Higher haste=more procs

  5. #5
    Anyone got any insight into the 4pc vs offset thunderforged deal?

  6. #6
    I will be using chest piece as my off piece.. there are bunch of really nice options for chest piece hit/crit and haste/crit...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotstreaklol View Post
    I will be using chest piece as my off piece.. there are bunch of really nice options for chest piece hit/crit and haste/crit...
    Im not talking about what piece to use as offpiece, im talking about foregoing ANY tier and just using all the offpieces EG lei shen legs ra-den chest etc. Is 2tier and 3 offpiece, 4tier and 1 offpiece, or 5 offpiece best?

  8. #8
    Simcraft says that mastery is better than haste for me

  9. #9
    Simcraft says that arcane is playable.

    As for offsets offset items need to outweight 6,5% crit from pyroblast then of course set bonus wouldn't so needed, and you could use items with better itemization. I belive having high ilvl offsets like 541 all the way. Would result in similar gain then set bonus. But i bet it would be much harder to get then 4 set items.

    As for mastery vs haste: more casts more crits more everything. Mastery isn't very compelling to me.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Arag View Post
    Simcraft says that arcane is playable.

    As for offsets offset items need to outweight 6,5% crit from pyroblast then of course set bonus wouldn't so needed, and you could use items with better itemization. I belive having high ilvl offsets like 541 all the way. Would result in similar gain then set bonus. But i bet it would be much harder to get then 4 set items.

    As for mastery vs haste: more casts more crits more everything. Mastery isn't very compelling to me.
    Have you even tried playing arcane in 5.2?
    Arcane is playable. If you cannot, it does not mean that others are same as you.
    There are people who still play arcane and they are doing very well. The problem with arcane is just that current raids require more mobility.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    Im not talking about what piece to use as offpiece, im talking about foregoing ANY tier and just using all the offpieces EG lei shen legs ra-den chest etc. Is 2tier and 3 offpiece, 4tier and 1 offpiece, or 5 offpiece best?
    6.5% crit on pyro is waaaay better then using non tier.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zavri View Post
    6.5% crit on pyro is waaaay better then using non tier.
    I thought so too, guess im just a little antsy seeing top mages without 4pc yet

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vagnerk View Post
    Have you even tried playing arcane in 5.2?
    Arcane is playable. If you cannot, it does not mean that others are same as you.
    There are people who still play arcane and they are doing very well. The problem with arcane is just that current raids require more mobility.
    I was actually mucking around the other day and respecced arcane. And I was amazed at how well I did. Still topped damage even as arcane (probably cause I have the most gear) and it was a very enjoyable spec to play. All I want is arcane missles to be cast while moving that would almost fix arcane for me.

  14. #14
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotstreaklol View Post
    I will be using chest piece as my off piece.. there are bunch of really nice options for chest piece hit/crit and haste/crit...
    Pants are actually your best piece to go off-tier for (or gloves is a close second). That 3 socket hit crit pants from Lei Shen are so fucking amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arag View Post
    As for offsets offset items need to outweight 6,5% crit from pyroblast then of course set bonus wouldn't so needed, and you could use items with better itemization. I belive having high ilvl offsets like 541 all the way. Would result in similar gain then set bonus. But i bet it would be much harder to get then 4 set items.

    As for mastery vs haste: more casts more crits more everything. Mastery isn't very compelling to me.
    Unless it's like 535/541s vs 502 tier pieces, the tier's gonna be significantly better. If you're judging between 522 tier and 528 Thunderforged normal pieces, go with the former and take those sexy set bonuses.

    Also, make sure to immediately break your 4P T14 even for better off-tier. 4P T14 is GARBAGE for Fire unless you're doing piddly weak Combustions, not caring about AT/PoM.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-30 at 08:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    Im not talking about what piece to use as offpiece, im talking about foregoing ANY tier and just using all the offpieces EG lei shen legs ra-den chest etc. Is 2tier and 3 offpiece, 4tier and 1 offpiece, or 5 offpiece best?
    Legs off tier from Lei shen is best.

    Unless you're using LFR tier vs Thunderforged Normal off-tier (or better), get your 4P.


    (if you're worrying about getting 4P, I don't think you have to worry about killing Ra-den anytime soon, especially since the top world guilds haven't killed him yet )

  15. #15
    Why would you ever choose to go with legs? Yes, 3 sockets and lots of crit looks nice. But tier legs got EIGHT crit rating less, that is nothing. And you are gonna get almost similar crit from the sockets as yellow/blue = 480 crit/160hit and 3 reds equal 240int/480crit. Instead, go with headpiece off Horridon, with crit/haste (as I will) or chest from Council/Primordius with hit/crit or crit/haste, which will net you around 1000 extra crit, as those two tier slots, don't carry crit rating.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    Actually, legs don't hold a candle to offpiece chest or helm.

    Those two are closer together then subbing anything else for pants, because our tier pants are actually our strongest piece.



    and as for 2pc vs 4pc... 6.5% crit on pyro is too huge not to take, because you'll only gain about 1.5% crit on everything else using crit gear.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    I thought so too, guess im just a little antsy seeing top mages without 4pc yet
    What Mages are you looking at? JW b/c the ones I have checked have had it since their first normal clear. The Pyro crit is so nice.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Drooul View Post
    What Mages are you looking at? JW b/c the ones I have checked have had it since their first normal clear. The Pyro crit is so nice.
    It's okay. I think you're overestimating it.

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