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  1. #1

    Horridon, who needs to go?

    Hey folks, first off posting this for the raid leader to see as he needs help, I am not in the raid myself however my partner is and she is at the end of her tether.

    They have been stuck on Horridon since the first day, 3 nights a week, 3 hours a night and something needs to change for them, I am not one to know from logs however here is two of the recent logs.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s39n9tz9jalerghj/

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/uuubwswtcbie9k0y/

    Any help with who is slacking on a constant basis would really be helpful along with anything you notice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
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  2. #2
    Field Marshal
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    I'm not the best WoL analyst. But the damage done seems to be really low. I looked at the longer attempt times (8-10 mins)

  3. #3
    Get the RL or your GF here. Sorry, but someone not even in raid posting just doesn't work for me. If they want help, they can ask. And honestly, it's only partly about stuff like DPS. It's also about interrupts, dispells and the like. INstead of bashing their heads against it, they need to ask what they're not doing.

  4. #4
    Make sure your DPS'ers are focus firing the high threat targets (the ones that jump down) and burning them down really fast. AOE/cleave down the rest as needed.

    Rogue DPS is terrible...needs to step it up, switch specs or maybe he's not beating on horridon while dragging to the next gate.

    Might want to 3 heal and have the priest do pure dps/atonement healing on horridon, the 50% damage taken debuff per gate is huge and atonement healing is like cheating on this fight.

    I see a lot of extra damage form frostorbs, double swipe and the disease (gate 3). Make sure priest and anyone else that can is dispelling on gate 3. Gate 1 can be handled by priest using mass dispel.

    Pound it into your DPS heads that the high threat targets are always the ones that Jump down and need to be killed first (other then dinomancer).

    Here is a video from 2 weeks ago, this PoV is me on my disc priest, doing nothing but atonement healing. Have your priests watch that and notice how I focus 95% of the time on horridon.

    Video: youtu.be/YmehOdgD1Mk

    logs: worldoflogs.com/reports/4z1mstbh5znfd58v/dashboard/?s=2561&e=3254

  5. #5
    Yeah, I was also going to say that your damage done seems to be fairly low. IMHO you should see about 850-900kdps for the raid avg. And 10:30 should be a kill -- Although it does look like you downed Jalak.

    The important things to keep in mind are that #1 -- Adds must always die first before boss DPS. And #2 -- DPS needs to do their best to avoid the stuff like poison, diseases, sand traps, etc. AND the healers really need to be dispelling people. Heck, on my Monk tank I even throw out some dispels when possible.

    Be sure the boss placement is parallel to the door so double thrash isn't hitting the DPS on adds. And you should be moving the adds away from the door when possible to avoid having to stand in large areas of sand traps, poison, frost orbs, etc.

    Your Rogue should spec swap to Assassination for this fight, as Combat does very poorly on it. There is too much movement for BF to be effective, hard to keep SnD up etc. Whereas Assassination is better at FOK, has an easier time refreshing SnD, etc. In my raid, our 500 ilvl Assassination Rogue is doing 130kdps overall on that fight. Your Rogue is doing like 75k.

    Krispie needs to be using Cleave as a rage dump instead of Heroic Strike. You often get 3-4-5 adds at the gates, so AoE should be used. More WW to stack Meat Cleaver for Raging Blow. Cleave instead of Heroic Strike for rage dump. And could probably use Berserker Rage more often, as it was only cast 7x in a 10min fight.
    Last edited by stellvia; 2013-03-29 at 07:38 PM.

  6. #6
    The damage is fine, if this fight goes wrong its because people fail on the mechanics. The kill time on the first boss shows they can beat enrage on horridon easy.

    Pretty hard to look from logs and isolate something. Tank deaths aren't always from the same source. Sometimes its the boss (is that no mitigation or the healers?) And others its dumb stuff like taking damage from frozen orbs. More awareness from the monk wouldn't hurt in that regard.

    I find it odd that the priest is holy, disc is miles better in my books.

    Apart from that, dunno. What does the RL think is going wrong? He/she sees the fights and can't be oblivious to what needs to happen. If they really don't know, do a quick post mortem after every attempt. Not to point fingers but to tweak things.

  7. #7
    I'm not trying to be a jerk, but here's my honest opinion.

    How are you only doing ~10 pulls in 3 hours? The fight is about 10-12 minutes long, that's 15 kills or 22 8 minute attempts. Are you taking 10 minute breaks in between each pull or something?

    If you are spending 3 nights a week, 3 hours a night since patch attempting to down normal Horridon then 90% of the raid group is the problem. The fight is a joke and we one shot it on patch day (pre-nerf too). It seems everyone is way below what they should be, all around slacking and/or subpar playing. Lots of avoidable damage being taken by everyone. There's not a single person that stands out, and I don't think kicking a single person will solve your issues. You all need to research your classes/rotations and the fight more, and probably get a better raid leader. (Why is he/she not posting instead of you?)

    Again, not trying to be a jerk, but don't attempt to put the blame on 1-2 people in that group. Everyone in there needs to improve their stuff... massively. The fact your GF isn't even posting here shows she's not putting effort into improving her own playstyle. Why are you attempting to improve their raid? The fact you had to post for them is proof that they aren't willing to play better.
    Last edited by tyrindor; 2013-03-29 at 07:41 PM.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome
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    its not a gear or dps thing this fight, although some of your dps is very low. its all about keeping the targets interrupted, and prioritising your dps.
    as a warlock myself, i can tell you that your warlock is playing fairly well, although he could utilise havoc a lot more (cleaving shadowburns is a major damage gain). and i would guess that he is capped on embers quite a lot because he doesnt use as many as i do on similar length attempts.

    thats all i can really say regarding class specific, however as i said. if your failing for this long you are not doing the mechanics. make sure that you have interrupters assigned to every priest and effusion, make sure you are SINGLE TARGET dps'ing those dangerous adds. make sure your dps have cooldowns up for the second and third doors as that is the danger. make sure that when you get to jalak and he is killed, there is a cooldown on your horridon tank as he will suddenly take more damage. you cant really tell from logs who isnt focusing the correct target though, thats something the RL will have to look at during attempts.
    Last edited by Viggers; 2013-03-29 at 07:57 PM.

  9. #9
    Forgot to mention, last phase when war-god jumps down, I have my entire group stack on him, for aoe healing/raid CD. Have the tanks swap as needed for puncture debuff. Blow up jalak first, if you have a pally with HoP they can clear the debuff on tank. We use that to have our warrior tank horridon for 3 gates in a row. =)

  10. #10
    Your rogue is doing straight up terrible damage when he should be near the top.

    • He's not using Blade Flurry at all (dafuq)
    • He's using Fan of Knives and Crimson Tempest on low amounts of mobs
    • He's using Garrote instead of Ambush
    • He's not using Kick (?)
    • He's not keeping Revealing Strike up
    • He's cycling through Insights really slowly
    • He's using Rupture on mobs that die quickly
    • His cooldown usage is really, really low
    • His uptime is low
    • He's hardly using Shadowstep at all
    • He's taking loads of extra damage on most attempts
    • He's barely using Cloak of Shadows

    That said, he's not your only problem; he's just the only one I can look at in detail with an experienced eye.

  11. #11
    Firstly, as you're new to this instance you really should be 3-healing Horridon for ease.

    We're currently 8/12, but we still 3heal Horridon just because it's a pain due to the massive raid damage.



    Follow that, changing it up as needed.

  12. #12
    Took us about 100 wipes. I suspect that's going to be average for this fight for normal groups. You can get a lot lower if you have the right comp (we were missing paladins completely--but we had a Disc priest) but it's about as bloody a fight as Elegon was in practice. Your raid has to hunker down and accept that ToT is going to be a miserable wipe fest or find something else to do. The emotion I felt when I killed Horridon was closer to disgust than elation and that's clearly just the way it's going to be throughout this tier for me.

    I'm an Assassin rogue normally and went with that this fight. I did indeed win the meter which sent me barreling in laughter since for most of the fight I was near the bottom. I don't think the adds are a great rogue strength in this fight. I used Marked for Death and tried to kill smaller adds when it wasn't stupid to do so--particularly on door 3.

    We did three-heal but we have several dpsers who can really push decent dps when the boss/big add finally stands still. Hero on door 3 helped. Door four was immensely problematical; tanks kept dying. The warbears are not trifling. Basically, every single door was about 25 wipes worth of mistakes. It's a bloody, brutal business for an ordinary guild.

    I'm sure council will be worse but we'll have to kill Horridon again to see it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Demeia View Post
    Took us about 100 wipes. I suspect that's going to be average for this fight for normal groups. You can get a lot lower if you have the right comp (we were missing paladins completely--but we had a Disc priest) but it's about as bloody a fight as Elegon was in practice. Your raid has to hunker down and accept that ToT is going to be a miserable wipe fest or find something else to do. The emotion I felt when I killed Horridon was closer to disgust than elation and that's clearly just the way it's going to be throughout this tier for me.
    My raid wiped on Horridon more than almost any other boss. Keep your head up, several of the later bosses are the easiest in the entire tier.
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  14. #14
    Just a small thing thats not necessarily a problem but Have the Priest try disc. Attonement is insanely OP On this fight as well as Power Word Solace.

    (Attonement does 100% damage as healing, boss takes 50% extra damage per gate = 350+k crit 1.4sec heals).

    This doesn't just help with heals but it leaves the DPS far less to do after the last gate, which means healers have to keep the tanks alive for a shorter amount of time during the heavy hitting enrage phase.

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Narna's Avatar
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    My raid only recently downed Horridon, was a pain, on him for like 3 weeks, 1-2 raid nights a week. Keep at it!
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  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demeia View Post
    Took us about 100 wipes. I suspect that's going to be average for this fight for normal groups. You can get a lot lower if you have the right comp (we were missing paladins completely--but we had a Disc priest) but it's about as bloody a fight as Elegon was in practice. Your raid has to hunker down and accept that ToT is going to be a miserable wipe fest or find something else to do. The emotion I felt when I killed Horridon was closer to disgust than elation and that's clearly just the way it's going to be throughout this tier for me.

    I'm an Assassin rogue normally and went with that this fight. I did indeed win the meter which sent me barreling in laughter since for most of the fight I was near the bottom. I don't think the adds are a great rogue strength in this fight. I used Marked for Death and tried to kill smaller adds when it wasn't stupid to do so--particularly on door 3.

    We did three-heal but we have several dpsers who can really push decent dps when the boss/big add finally stands still. Hero on door 3 helped. Door four was immensely problematical; tanks kept dying. The warbears are not trifling. Basically, every single door was about 25 wipes worth of mistakes. It's a bloody, brutal business for an ordinary guild.

    I'm sure council will be worse but we'll have to kill Horridon again to see it.
    You suspect that 100 wipes is going to be average for normal groups?? I have no idea, why a lot of people apparently are struggling so hard with this boss. I suspect that it's due to the many things people have to keep track of: Target swap, Interrupts, dispelling and positioning. But without trying to be a douche, my guild 2 shot this boss on patch day as well and we didn't have a single Paladin in the raid, nor did we have a Boomkin for the extra Mass Dispel.

    But as others have said, you need to not only be able to do your rotation, you need to do your rotation while you're interrupting, target swapping and moving out of bad stuff.

    A lot of people have already talked about how Horridon feels overtuned but I will say this, if your raiders know how to play their class and don't suck at awareness, this boss should not be an issue.

    So a few suggestions:

    Give people assist, and assign them to interrupts (Tank+melee first, then ranged). Set an order and have the first person mark his/her add, so nobody else tries to interrupt that target.

    Co-ordinate your dispelling. The Priest healer needs to call out, when he/she's using Mass Dispel and it shouldn't be used at 1 stack for obvious reasons.

    Make sure, that your positioning is correct. Place Horridon close to the gate, have the other tank between Horridon and the gate with melee, while ranged and healers can stand behind the tanks. That way the adds will have to run through both tanks (and yes, the tank tanking Horridon should help pick up any lose adds).

    Tanks have to rotate their CD's, when they're tanking Horridon. The damage from the adds isn't big, so any minor CD's should suffice.

    Assign someone to click the orb, so that you don't have several people going for it at the same time.

    I can't really say much more, other than some of the players seem to be rather terrible (sorry for being so blunt) and if they can't improve, you won't be killing Horridon anytime soon.

  17. #17
    Yes, yes, we get it DG... you're hot shit and so is your guild. Are you going to do this in every single thread on Horridon? Move on.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Yes, yes, we get it DG... you're hot shit and so is your guild. Are you going to do this in every single thread on Horridon? Move on.
    So I actually try to provide some help and you're being butthurt? Why don't you move on yourself? Did you check their logs, or did you just post your insulted reply for my sake?

    Just because I and several others (including a mod) don't agree with you, you start to insult me? I don't see your insults towards the mod who've said the exact same things as I have lol.

    In any case, you're off topic and you're derailing the OP's thread - at least I'm providing some advice. Why don't you provide some too, after you've been digging through their logs......

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Narna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Yes, yes, we get it DG... you're hot shit and so is your guild. Are you going to do this in every single thread on Horridon? Move on.
    Not sure if read post... actually helps.
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  20. #20
    SIgh... I got to the 'we 2 shot him' and it pushed a button. I'm sorry DG - the post was good. I'm just getting tired of people not looking at things from the perspective of others... and then I did that. Sorry.

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