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  1. #21
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    Wow. I only looked at your longest attempt and I must say your dps is simply too low. I would suggest BLing in the 3rd gate once the two frozen warlords spawn. Other than that I don't know what to tell you. The DPS req. is quite high on this fight, however I imagine it actually would be possible without problems with two healers as you are running it.

    But, you need to get rid of your dps warrior. He is horribly performing below even the worst ToT warrior raider.

  2. #22
    Others have given some good advice so far, having interrupt orders for the second gate is key and I would suggest moveing away from the third gate once the orb has been droped, for us new adds tended to get stuck on healers if we moved to far before then.

    I have done this fight as both a Resto and Ele Shammy so perhaps I can help yours.

    -I glyphed fire Ele and used it on the first Elite on the first gate, the first frozen warlord and for the last burn Phase. (Both Ele/Resto)
    -I used Ascendance for the fist Elite on the first gate and for the first frozen warlord.
    -I used stormlash on the first Venom priest to burn her down fast then on the last burn Phase.

    We tend to BL when Wargod is on 10 mil HP, though I can't see a reason why it could not be used on one of the gates to get though it quckly, we also tend to use every bit of CC under the sun on the 3ed Gate Army, Earth Ele, ring of frost, earth grab really anything is good, we also kept a Ele shaman on little add burn duty on that gate.

    Hope this helps and good luck =D

  3. #23
    Danishgirl is always decent and never once seen him "showing off".
    I just think that he is unaware of the obvious problem that lesser teams are faced against to.

    Horridon is a combo of complicated and chaotic encounter that requires bits of everything.
    Good Dps and heals, movement, interupts, dispels, dpsing the proper adds. Basically every posible thing that can set a good group appart from a mediocre group.
    And the acumulated gear gap that decent groups already had vs the mediocre groups made the weaknesses of the later even more striking.

    I comfortably sit at 70 wipes now, and just stated "working" on gate 3. Working is an understatement though...since the only thing i pointed out prior to tonight was...at gate 3 we STACK at the right corner of the gate.
    Our shadow priest and Balance druid where dpsing the adds from the other side of the boss...closer to the middle than to gate, and when ofc adds attacked them they were moving like headless chickens left right or in circles...hillarius under normal circumstances but for me at that moment as we were wiping...not really.

  4. #24
    Your priest should also try Disc, Atonement healing becomes OP at the end, not to mention Disc is still superior. Preventing damage > healing through it. Also, not sure if Divine Star is the best, Cascade generally is superior. And through 11 attempts they only used Divine Hymn 9 times (druid tranqed 12 times), and Guardian Spirit 5 times. If you're having any deaths (which I saw) to adds, poison, tanks dying these numbers could increase and help prevent that. If healers are having mana issues they also only used Hymn of Hope 6 times through 11 attempts - but I'm assuming this isn't the case.

    Considering you're resto druid only used Spiritwalker's Grace once (11 attempts), have them Symbiosis a paladin instead. They then can also cleanse poison "every 4 seconds" and disease every 8 seconds. Plus if tanks are dying it gives you're paladin another minor CD. Also his LB up-time seems a little low at 74% and he's not fully utilizing Nature's Vigil enough. Only Once through a 4min fight, and twice in 9 minutes? If they don't remember to use this, switching to HoTW might be more beneficial.

    Your paladin tank not using Sacred Shield or Glyph of the Battle Healer? Sacred Shield is another form of absorbing damage vs healing it with the inferior Eternal Flame, Battle Healer will give you're raid general healing cushion as well (if you need to stick to 2 healing because of DPS).

    I also noticed a lot of double swipe dmg. It looks like some tank deaths as well - are they properly tank swapping each door and using CDs for triple puncture? I also see some loose add deaths. The guild I'm in killed it in under 8 minutes. So a 10minute wipe seems a little prolonged, especially if you are 2 healing. All in all it looks like stuff just needs to tighten up a bit.

    With all the advice that's been posted in this thread, if you still can't kill it with following simple directions of order, it seems like you have some serious out of practice raiders.
    Last edited by Tygera; 2013-03-31 at 03:07 AM.

  5. #25
    Horridon is in loose terms a complicated clusterfuck.

    The first door you want to minimise damage and get the adds down as quickly as possible. Unless cleave attacks are a big part of your rotation it's better to use single target attacks and let the tank aoe kill the lesser adds.

    The second door is all about interrupts and switching to the adds that get spawned by the poison. They have less than 800k and should never be alive long enough to require an interrupt.

    Third door's a good one to pop BL/Hero on since only the Warlords can be actually tanked and of all the doors the 3 warlords are possibly the most dangerous due to the frost orbs and their brutal MS. Assign your weakest dps to clean up the other adds while everyone else pops short cds to get the warlords down.

    On the final door I usually tank Horridon right on the door itself to get aggro on the flamecasters. I kill them solo mostly with some help from our kitty that we put on the melee. Once you keep the flamecasters under control and don's have multiple shamans down at once this door's very simple. You have about a minute after you smash the door before Jalak drops so clean up and get dps on Horridon.

    At this point the fight is won, unless a tank dies or people don't dodge the swipes.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by stellvia View Post
    Yeah, I was also going to say that your damage done seems to be fairly low. IMHO you should see about 850-900kdps for the raid avg.
    Not necessary unless you're at the end with the increased damage on Horridon. Even at that point, no one in my kill broke 140K, with 6 dps, and There was significant gaps between top 3, next 2, and then our worst dps. For a first kill you need probably around 600K dps total to clear doors.

    I can't offer much more than that, as even with my guild's many wipes, it only took us two attempts of reaching the final door to get past it, and we never wiped after that. For us, the limiting factor was the Drakkari door. I'm interested to know how you're getting past that door but then wiping later.

  7. #27
    That rogue damage is.. Astoundingly bad.

  8. #28
    we got it down last pull last reset (ironically the 1st time we got past 4th gate) we 3 healed it and we had ppl looking hard at specs etc to get it done,i went from holy to disc we had a mage go frost from fire.

    we also spent a night a week gearing up in hof and terrace im not saying gear is a issue but it all helps.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Narna View Post
    My raid only recently downed Horridon, was a pain, on him for like 3 weeks, 1-2 raid nights a week. Keep at it!
    My guild is having trouble as well. Our dps isn't bad at all, but it's just a fight where one small hiccup can cost you on 10 man. It's very frustrating. We'll get him down eventually, but geez what a crappy fight. haha

  10. #30
    I don't get why people say it's so complicated. Every door's adds do something a little different but it basically boils down to "interrupt the adds, kill the adds, dispel debuffs, don't stand in whatever the adds put down, don't stand in double swipe. Repeat for 4 doors. Kill miniboss when he comes down, then kill boss. Tank swaps at each door." It is a very difficult encounter if you're not fully prepared with a strong raid team, but I don't think it's incredibly complicated.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Narna View Post
    Not sure if read post... actually helps.
    The useless and annoying part of the post was where she said her guild 2-shot it and it's not that hard if you can "play your class" or whatever.

    The rest of the post was fine.

    Then she goes on to invoke a mod as backup.

    DG, stick to facts, and shut up about how awesome you and your guild are?

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    The useless and annoying part of the post was where she said her guild 2-shot it and it's not that hard if you can "play your class" or whatever.

    The rest of the post was fine.

    Then she goes on to invoke a mod as backup.

    DG, stick to facts, and shut up about how awesome you and your guild are?

    And you as Clevin are just pissed, cause I had the nerve to say, that this fight isn't hard, if done properly by players who can do more dps than some of the people in the this guild. Again, others point out the freaking exact things - a few of them have horrible dps and you just seem to now be QQ'ing whenever I dare say anything that remotely goes against you in terms of L2P issues vs. tuning.

    I don't see you offering any advice, just like Clevin. You just bitch, cause you can't kill Horridon. Well, maybe had you spend less time crying about how hard it is and asked for advice, maybe then you'd actually be killing it?

    And lol, how awesome my own guild is..... Apparently being able to kill the second boss in ToT makes you awesome now - ROFL the irony......

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Platnex View Post
    Hey folks, first off posting this for the raid leader to see as he needs help, I am not in the raid myself however my partner is and she is at the end of her tether.

    They have been stuck on Horridon since the first day, 3 nights a week, 3 hours a night and something needs to change for them, I am not one to know from logs however here is two of the recent logs.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s39n9tz9jalerghj/

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/uuubwswtcbie9k0y/

    Any help with who is slacking on a constant basis would really be helpful along with anything you notice.
    11 tries in 150 minutes? Talk about long breaks or slow pulls.
    I would tell you to farm more normal gear, but the average ilvl is 500, so not that bad either.

  14. #34
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archidamos View Post
    Danishgirl is always decent and never once seen him "showing off".
    I just think that he is unaware of the obvious problem that lesser teams are faced against to.

    Horridon is a combo of complicated and chaotic encounter that requires bits of everything.
    Good Dps and heals, movement, interupts, dispels, dpsing the proper adds. Basically every posible thing that can set a good group appart from a mediocre group.
    And the acumulated gear gap that decent groups already had vs the mediocre groups made the weaknesses of the later even more striking.

    I comfortably sit at 70 wipes now, and just stated "working" on gate 3. Working is an understatement though...since the only thing i pointed out prior to tonight was...at gate 3 we STACK at the right corner of the gate.
    Our shadow priest and Balance druid where dpsing the adds from the other side of the boss...closer to the middle than to gate, and when ofc adds attacked them they were moving like headless chickens left right or in circles...hillarius under normal circumstances but for me at that moment as we were wiping...not really.
    Archi, this is just about how some butthurt people seem to be approaching everything I say now as elitist and whatnot - don't mind them really. See, had you been the one posting about difficulty, I would have replied in a different manner in the first place. Cause you're right, the fight will do exactly that - set a good group from a mediocre one. Because there is a lot of stuff that one has to master in terms of raiding skills.

    But one of the best ways to actually get help, is at the OP of this thread has done. Post a thread on MMO and include a WoL parse. Ask for help from people who've already downed it. I've never seen a "Help us thread" not getting replies but ofc this means, that you risk getting critique about your raiders performance as the OP in this thread.

    About your own raid group and how people started to panic on the 3rd gate: remind them, that they won't die from a few hits. And remind them of one of the oldest rules, when getting aggro as healer or dps - Run towards the tank. Mark your tanks if need be, that way people can always see them. Another thing that many people tend to do when panicking is yelling "Aggro!!!!" or "Adds of me!!!!" and if the tanks are already a bit stressed, that may not be the best way to handle it. Have people call out their name in stead.

    It is true, that the positioning on the 3rd gate is a bit different. It's kinda hard to explain but you should consider watching Aliena's guide. She's back making guides and she often offers a more detailed guide than any of the other guides around.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNPc5uFEydQ

  15. #35
    Interrupts, avoiding unnecessary damage and having high dps are the important things for this fight.
    The fight is long, so make sure to use your raid cooldowns many times, warriors for example can use theirs 4 times in this fight.
    Your warrior, monk and especially rogue is slacking on damage, and tbh that is enough to make the fight really hard, adds should die before you are at the next gate and dinomancer should be burned to 50% really fast and then the lowest dps should instantly click the orb (I hope you are not using tanks for it, they cant attack or avoid anything when holding it). Slacking even few seconds on dinomancer can get you 2-4 extra adds you really dont want.

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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    The useless and annoying part of the post was where she said her guild 2-shot it and it's not that hard if you can "play your class" or whatever.

    The rest of the post was fine.

    Then she goes on to invoke a mod as backup.

    DG, stick to facts, and shut up about how awesome you and your guild are?
    Totally uncalled for man. The fight is easy with a decent group. Their whole post was useful, if they were able to 2 shot the second boss in the instance, then their strategy and what they did could work for the OP since it worked for them.

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  17. #37
    The warrior is bad and the rogue is so terrible that I wonder what's wrong with him. Just do the fight with 3 healers and 5 dps who can do 90-100k dps. The fight is easy when mobs die in time and you can avoid stuff not sure why people would argue otherwise.

  18. #38
    I really don't understand why any priest would chose to be holy on this fight. Went disc on this in LFR and did 134k dps (I'm shadow MS so haven't tried it in a real raiding mode). While it would obviously be lower in normal mode due to dispelling and actually having to pay attention to rapture, it should still be tons of free dps and cheap heals.

    Also, it looks like some of your dpsers are really slow to switch to adds. If you go Analyze -> Damage Done and pick Venomous Effusion as target, you only have one dpser doing significant damage to it, number two is the tank on the random long attempt I picked. Similar things are true for other adds, although not as bad, usually at least there's two dpsers on it. But some of them really need to pay more attention. You're probably not doing yourselves a favor by bringing so many melee. Especially since apart from the warrior, the ranged did better at interrupts anyway. o.O

  19. #39
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbad View Post
    The warrior is bad and the rogue is so terrible that I wonder what's wrong with him. Just do the fight with 3 healers and 5 dps who can do 90-100k dps. The fight is easy when mobs die in time and you can avoid stuff not sure why people would argue otherwise.
    The one thing we haven't actually addressed, is whether to 2 or 3 heal it. I know that a lot of more casual (not bad by default) guilds will go with 3 healers as default, cause an extra healer will make it more safe.

    The thing that people often forget, when thinking like this, is that an extra dps will reduce the overall healing needed. On this fight, adds will die faster, which seems to be the main issue for those who struggle on Horridon. If you lack the dps for whatever reason and you don't have anyone to replace the underperforming, you're only option is to bring an extra dps. Horridon can and should (when you lack dps) be 2 healed on both Normal and Heroic. The fact that one healer from the OP's logs barely heal anything, just show that swapping him out for a dps, makes a lot more sense.

    If you don't have another dps or if your healers can't 2 heal, then your RL needs to have a serious talk with the raiders. Cause as several people have already pointed out, the Rogue and the Warrior in particular seems to be doing way below what can be expected of them.

    Tell them to go to MMO class forum, post their log and armory and ask for help. I think you'd get surprised of how many great players are actually willing to help others, when they ask for said help and not just complain about overtuning for instance.

    Often players looking directly at your armory and logs, can tell you so much more than a player can learn by reading through EJ or other theory crafting sites.

  20. #40
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Easiest thing to do is farm more gear, tbh.

    Horridon is a clusterfuck which becomes much less of a clusterfuck past 500 ilvl. Theres a reason all the raiders in T14 HC gear are like "wtf lol it's easy" and it's because the fight is piss once you over gear it. For the average guild who probably got stuck on garalon and had 480-490 ilvl when tot launched, horridon is overtuned for sure.

    Your raid damage looks fine, the rogue and warrior will wind up at the top in the burn phase probably, just stick with it. Took us about 70 attempts the first time.

    Good luck.
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