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  1. #1

    5.2 Enhancement DPS Talents discussion

    So far, the other thread just is totally chaotic, so i start a new one specific for 5.2 Enhancement.

    With the new simcraft, we get following results. I'm using the BIS profile becuase it is a realistic itemlevel at the beginning of 5.2 and few weeks after.
    Every sim is done 10000 times.

    Live:
    EotE + UF: 122825
    EM + UF: 122300
    EM + PE: 118270

    EotE + PE: 118265
    EotE + EB: 116946
    EM + EB: 116943

    As everyone can see, UF totally dominates, EB is no choice at all.

    Now the PTR version (same fight length and so on):

    PTR:

    EM + PE: 124818 (+ 5.5%)
    EM + UF: 124553 (+ 1.8%)
    AS + UF: 122514

    AS + PE: 122065
    EotE + UF: 121918 (- 0.8%)
    EotE + PE: 121352 (+ 2.6%)

    EM + EB: 121292 (+ 3.7%)
    AS + EB: 118592
    EotE + EB: 118420 (+ 1.2%)


    As everyone can see, in it's current state, EM totally takes over, making EM + PE the best dps talent, but pretty close.

    EB just stays no real choice. It will be not worth taking.

    You may switch PE and UF, depending on fight. EotE might be best for AOE fights.

    I still expect a EM nerf coming. The moment they nerf EM, UF will be again a little better.

  2. #2
    Good to know. Its nice seeing PE and UF close enough that it will come down to the fight or just preference.

  3. #3
    Thanks for putting this info up, I'd been wondering about this myself.

  4. #4
    There was a pretty big bugfix in SimC for EB a little while ago (it was consuming maelstrom charges but not receiving the cast time reduction). PTR is currently showing PE>EB>UF (set bonuses disabled), with or without an EM nerf. UF stays ahead of EB (and roughly tied with PE) for as long as you keep the t14 4p.

    See bottom of this post for details: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7592909703#9
    Last edited by Nitwit; 2013-01-07 at 09:45 PM.

  5. #5
    The Patient Xeonde's Avatar
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    With this, will Haste pull ahead of Mastery for gearing priority? I am not excited for this at all I have no desire to run EM+PE.
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  6. #6
    Yeah, I believe so. That was always the difference between the EotE/UF build vs. EM/PE build, the first you have to go for mastery, the other you have to go for haste. I have a feeling it'll still be pretty close weights between the two though, the same as now.
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  7. #7
    Just wondering, cause I may have overlooked something, but according to http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html, EoTE + UF is simming at 124,554 DPS; but from your post, you are saying that on live it's 122,825? (Just clarifying ).

    Anyways, I think that talent choices are going to depend a lot on fight parameters. EM / PE will be good for a fight like Gara'jal, but for fights with AoE, or target switching, where the target has to die asap (Platforms on Heroic Sha) I think having the sustained damage from EoTE / UF will be far superior.This upcoming progression cycle will certainly be interesting in regards to what talents will prove to be logically (not statistically) better on each fight.

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  8. #8
    The Patient Sorbus's Avatar
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    Ty for posting.
    It's a "huge relief" how close EotE/UF and personal my personal umm... pet peeve(?) EM/PE are... Actually, all of those seem to be relatively close, so we have a lot to choose from.
    Last edited by Sorbus; 2013-01-08 at 06:45 AM. Reason: bad english

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeonde View Post
    With this, will Haste pull ahead of Mastery for gearing priority? I am not excited for this at all I have no desire to run EM+PE.
    Yes, it will. EM + PE are a lot more haste centric.

    With EM + PE, we have an extremely high burst dps. A lot higher than the current standard specc EotE + UF.

    PE will be stronger on some fight lengths, UF on some others.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 08:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Defines View Post
    Just wondering, cause I may have overlooked something, but according to http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html, EoTE + UF is simming at 124,554 DPS; but from your post, you are saying that on live it's 122,825? (Just clarifying ).

    Anyways, I think that talent choices are going to depend a lot on fight parameters. EM / PE will be good for a fight like Gara'jal, but for fights with AoE, or target switching, where the target has to die asap (Platforms on Heroic Sha) I think having the sustained damage from EoTE / UF will be far superior.This upcoming progression cycle will certainly be interesting in regards to what talents will prove to be logically (not statistically) better on each fight.
    Well i find this also very interesting. I don't know where that extra dps comes from, since the BIS profile sims. The important thing is, that we always compare the same gear level to the same gear level. Most if comes from more storm lash damage, so perhaps they somehow force more stormlash totems into the raid.

    I'm just using the same profile exterytime. I forgot to mention that there might be a way for a little dps gain via reforging (though all our secondary stats are pretty close to each other, so it won't be more than perhaps 300 dps at best.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 08:20 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    There was a pretty big bugfix in SimC for EB a little while ago (it was consuming maelstrom charges but not receiving the cast time reduction). PTR is currently showing PE>EB>UF (set bonuses disabled), with or without an EM nerf. UF stays ahead of EB (and roughly tied with PE) for as long as you keep the t14 4p.

    See bottom of this post for details: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7592909703#9
    Next build will have it repaired. But the difference is huge, i don't expect a big change.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    Next build will have it repaired. But the difference is huge, i don't expect a big change.
    Well, the post I linked has the simmed comparisons from the fixed version, so there isn't much to expect/think about. EB profiles all gained ~2-3k dps from that bug fix, which is about what they needed.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Defines View Post
    Just wondering, cause I may have overlooked something, but according to http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html, EoTE + UF is simming at 124,554 DPS; but from your post, you are saying that on live it's 122,825? (Just clarifying ).
    Checkout the timestamp on the simulationcraft.org report. There's currently a small problem which doesn't let the automated reports finish on simulationcraft.org, we're working on it.

  12. #12
    EM: love that its becoming useful, easy to macro into my rotation in any case with that 1 min cd.

    PE: FE totem already on my bar no worries there. Just buffs the elemental which is awesome.

    EotE: favorite talent, totally passive buff can´t complain.

    UF: same as echo, love how it doen´t wreck the flow of the priority.

    AS: piff, I really don´t like that one, makes the "rotation" feel wonky. Unless its THE best talent by a large margin, I wont pick that.

    EM: agh, don´t like it either but not as bad as AS.

    Am I the only one that doesn´t care ONLY for numbers? I like the rotation and love how the best talents don´t mess with it. Main reason why I go with EotE + UF atm, it also happens to be the best setup but honestly, if it were 2nd best for a few points I would still pick that.

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    I care for numbers and the rotation .

    But I also care for abilities feeling like abilities, and EotE is not doing that for me when I go Enhancement. As Ele I see some obvious results of it, e.g. a second or third Lava Burst, but for Enhancement these visual stimuli aren't that easy to spot.
    As such I feel much better, for lack of a better term, with EM, as clicking the button not only has me doing something to improve my performance, it's also relatively visible. I like that, ties my effort to visible rewards.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    I care for numbers and the rotation .

    But I also care for abilities feeling like abilities, and EotE is not doing that for me when I go Enhancement. As Ele I see some obvious results of it, e.g. a second or third Lava Burst, but for Enhancement these visual stimuli aren't that easy to spot.
    As such I feel much better, for lack of a better term, with EM, as clicking the button not only has me doing something to improve my performance, it's also relatively visible. I like that, ties my effort to visible rewards.
    Yeah that really fails.EM should just double the damage done, not cast a second cast. That way you at least see when you get a procc.

    But anyways. Numbers matter for sure.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 10:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    Well, the post I linked has the simmed comparisons from the fixed version, so there isn't much to expect/think about. EB profiles all gained ~2-3k dps from that bug fix, which is about what they needed.
    If those numbers are right, the UF nerf wasn't really necessary.

  15. #15
    I'm just really glad you all have the time and desire to figure all this out. I follow along and learn a bunch from this stuff. Atm, I'll be waiting to see of EM plays out as a 1min cd. Pretty sure that is going to end up 90 seconds, of course lowering it's value to enhance. I have to say, i like where we are now, and having the same kind of priority for another tier doesn't bother me one bit. WTB an earthquake ability that only activates with 5MW making an instant targeted aoe. I'd like to see PE not have to be tied to EM as well, cuz those elementals are better looking :P do i smell an idea for a minor glyph?

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire NPSlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    I care for numbers and the rotation .

    But I also care for abilities feeling like abilities, and EotE is not doing that for me when I go Enhancement. As Ele I see some obvious results of it, e.g. a second or third Lava Burst, but for Enhancement these visual stimuli aren't that easy to spot.
    As such I feel much better, for lack of a better term, with EM, as clicking the button not only has me doing something to improve my performance, it's also relatively visible. I like that, ties my effort to visible rewards.
    Yeah but with fights that have AOE or cleave the extra Fire Nova's are awesome. Chain Lightning makes me feel like a sith lord.

    I think echo is VERY visual, more visual over the course of a fight than a 2 or 1m CD ability. That being said, it's the go-to passive damage over time instead of burst, so there's that.
    Last edited by NPSlow; 2013-01-12 at 05:14 AM.
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  17. #17
    Any info on how much the EM swap to 90 secs changes choices?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeague View Post
    Any info on how much the EM swap to 90 secs changes choices?
    Probably drops down below eote/uf again i'm guessing. However it would most likely sync up with feral spirits modified by the t15 4pc bonus.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeague View Post
    Any info on how much the EM swap to 90 secs changes choices?
    It'll still align with Ascendance and it might make glyphed FE a better option as it'll boost every elemental without delay.
    It's the internet. You never know if people are either sarcastic or just bad.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome Razecog's Avatar
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    I'll most likely still go with EotE/UF because i like the sustained dmg.
    I've always prefered sustained dmg over burst for some reason. :>
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