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  1. #1
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    What is the current state of Warriors in PVE?

    Basically what the title says. I unsubbed in October and from what I recall back then at Mists launch Warriors were in a decent place overall. I've resubbed and I'm trying to decide between my Death Knight or my Warrior; I'm much more familiar with my Warrior and the DK playstyle isn't really appealing to me, so I'm leaning towards my Warrior but as far as PVE goes how are they for tanking and DPS? I know that DPS always fluctuates with what gear you have as to if you want Arms/Fury and I'm assuming this is still the case; as far as Prot goes I remember them being somewhere between good and below average depending on whom you asked but that might have been due to the newness of the "active mitigation" playstyle.

    Has any of this changed? Are Warriors still wanted? Do we perform well as tanks and DPS? At present is it Fury > Arms or Arms > Fury, since I'm pretty sure it will still vary
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  2. #2
    Arms is a bit closer to Fury now, and I believe at low level gears, Arms will out perform Fury. As for the end game, Fury does indeed pull ahead, but not by a significant amount to where you have to play that Spec. Overall it's a fun class to play, although Arms' rotation isn't what it use to be.

  3. #3
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Pretty sure I could deal with Prot again, but for Arms I saw that Taste of Blood now gives an additional Overpower (I think when I left it increased the damage of Heroic Strike?), and Mortal Strike gives you 2 uses of OP? So a bit confused about the priority/rotation and I only see a guide for Fury, not Arms... I know that MS still is our main Rage generator, but what about the rest? It looks like with 2 OPs you can use them before MS comes back up off cooldown, and Slam is still filler when you have Rage but not enough to dump into HS, yes?

    So would that mean we are back to more of a rotation? MS > CS (if up and not applied) > OP x2 > (filler: Slam/Roar/Stormbolt/Throw/Something) > MS and back again? I guess you can take out the filler if you get a TFB proc and get an extra OP?
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  4. #4
    Arms is okayish until you hit ILvL 505 or above. Melee DDs are almost never welcome. Best class to play right now probably is a range hybrid healer/dd like shaman/druid/priest or if only range dd warlock. Warlocks are once again ridicilous.

    It all depends on the weapons you get, but fury scaling is better so in the end fury is going to be on top if you have pretty good gear and your weapon choices are about equal.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEnergy View Post
    Arms is okayish until you hit ILvL 505 or above. Melee DDs are almost never welcome. Best class to play right now probably is a range hybrid healer/dd like shaman/druid/priest or if only range dd warlock. Warlocks are once again ridicilous.

    It all depends on the weapons you get, but fury scaling is better so in the end fury is going to be on top if you have pretty good gear and your weapon choices are about equal.
    I'm not sure what you're talking about but I know of at least several top 15 U.S guilds who are currently recruiting melee DPS.

  6. #6
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Funnily enough I was thinking of rerolling a Warlock (I don't heal or want to heal), but I really don't want to level 1-90 again :P My Warrior is 90 already (in heroic dungeon gear) and my DK is in half heroic dungeon gear and half questing greens still.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    I'm not sure what you're talking about but I know of at least several top 15 U.S guilds who are currently recruiting melee DPS.
    I don't think the TO is going to join a top 15 U.S. raiding guild. I am talking about random raids in chat who are looking for people or mediocre raid guilds who want people for clearing normal content. Especially in 10 man you just don't have enough room for melees, because you also want every buff etc.

  8. #8
    The way Taste For Blood works now is that it allows you to use Overpower now. It no longer increase the damage of HS, and you can gain those stacks from getting your attacks dodge or using Mortal Strike (MS will give you 2 uses of OP).

  9. #9
    Well I'd at least claim that warriors are not fotm. Don't have the best overview currently on the state of tanking but prot seems still decent. Doesn't have the ridiculous raid healing capabilities other tank specs offer but well the rest of the tools look still fine.
    The new Arms is probably a lot better than the numbers on wol would suggest although personally I definitely produce better numbers with fury @ around ~520 gear. That said fury isn't really special. Decent cleave with really good burst via bladestorm - although probably not the ridiculous sustained uh dk cleave and decent single target, again probably a bit less though than assa rogues. Of course there is still Skullbanner.
    Not sure exactly on what you plan on doing but I would not really expect to be the most sought after class out there.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEnergy View Post
    I don't think the TO is going to join a top 15 U.S. raiding guild. I am talking about random raids in chat who are looking for people or mediocre raid guilds who want people for clearing normal content. Especially in 10 man you just don't have enough room for melees, because you also want every buff etc.
    Ahh I thought you were referencing decent guilds not wanting melee, instead of randoms and PUGS. Ya I agree than, it's far more common to see people LF RDPS.

  11. #11
    As have been mentioned previously in this thread: Arms is better at lower gear levels. Fury will pull ahead at higher gear levels, and with 30%+ crit the damage-output is really good and is more consistent than at lower ilvls (of course). SMF is also better than TG, or so they say, personally i've experienced that it doesnt really matter as long as ure a good player and do not stand in shit. However, If you're not a fan of rng AT ALL, arms is the spec to be.

    However, if you want to be at the top of the meters as a melee: reroll rogue. You want to be at the top of the meters in general: reroll lock. Simple as that really. But warriors do bring some nice utility through banners and rallying cry, which ive used SEVERAL times to save idiots ^^

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juni View Post
    As have been mentioned previously in this thread: Arms is better at lower gear levels. Fury will pull ahead at higher gear levels, and with 30%+ crit the damage-output is really good and is more consistent than at lower ilvls (of course). SMF is also better than TG, or so they say, personally i've experienced that it doesnt really matter as long as ure a good player and do not stand in shit. However, If you're not a fan of rng AT ALL, arms is the spec to be.

    However, if you want to be at the top of the meters as a melee: reroll rogue. You want to be at the top of the meters in general: reroll lock. Simple as that really. But warriors do bring some nice utility through banners and rallying cry, which ive used SEVERAL times to save idiots ^^
    I'd say warriors have far more utility than rogues. Banner, Skull Banner, Shout, and vigilance (which you should have a macro for each of the tanks made). Taunt for gimick fights (Like Dark Animus) or to taunt/tank with Die by the Sword.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    I'd say warriors have far more utility than rogues. Banner, Skull Banner, Shout, and vigilance (which you should have a macro for each of the tanks made). Taunt for gimick fights (Like Dark Animus) or to taunt/tank with Die by the Sword.
    Yeah utility is amazing. I am a huge fan and it is probably the main reason I really don't complain being second on the damage meters to warlocks and mages. Although sometimes it can be a little bit frustrating when you save a fight a couple of times with clever cooldown uses and nobody noticed it and at the end they applaud the faceroll warlock for dealing 200k dps.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEnergy View Post
    Warlocks are once again ridicilous.

    Woo. Yeah. The Burning Crusade - it was just yesterday.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    Woo. Yeah. The Burning Crusade - it was just yesterday.
    you probably missed everything inbetween then

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEnergy View Post
    you probably missed everything inbetween then
    I've played a warlock since Vanilla and have been through all the ups and downs, nerfs and buffs, etc. There are really only 2 times in WoW history where they were "ridiculous" as you say (at least beyond any measure of personal subjectivity). The end of TBC was one with Sac/SBspam, and now before the recent round of nerfs (and the nerfs that are sure to come).

    I'm not disagreeing with you that we're a bit OP right now and were especially so at the beginning of the previous tier. Add in that the skill cap is lower than it's been since those BC days.....still, we've been far from one of the favorite and consistently OP classes out there. Don't worry, you guys will get your time in the so-called sun again. It's the nature of the beast.

    On topic, because I didn't really mean to derail the thread: To the original poster if you enjoy tanking warrior's are more fun than ever in my opinion. To me, it feels much more active than the other tank specs (DK & Guardian in particular /snore) and feels like it rewards smart play a little more than some of those others. I can't speak to their raid tanking ability, but in 5 mans and LFR when I do it on mine I'm having a blast.
    Last edited by Nemah; 2013-03-31 at 10:40 PM. Reason: my writing sucks today, apparently

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEnergy View Post
    Yeah utility is amazing. I am a huge fan and it is probably the main reason I really don't complain being second on the damage meters to warlocks and mages. Although sometimes it can be a little bit frustrating when you save a fight a couple of times with clever cooldown uses and nobody noticed it and at the end they applaud the faceroll warlock for dealing 200k dps.
    This and then the raidlead decides to replace you with a rogue because you don't have the same ridiculous defensive cooldowns for yourself. Sometimes being a warrior is frustrating.

  18. #18
    I can honestly say that our Banners + Rally Cry is what gets us our DPS raid spots atm
    Without these, replacing us for a rogue would be a very easy call.

    Rogue's have the same/more DPS & a TON of survivability true CoS & Feint.

    I wish they would change Spell Reflect with a secondary effect that works like Feint. So we are less squishy vs. spelldamage

  19. #19
    The thing that frustrates me about arms is that we have really horrible burst and synergy with the major DPS cooldowns. Every class/spec can spike way higher than us with CDs, pot and heroism. It really sucks for certain fights (and heroic modes I would imagine).

    I haven't had a chance to play arms in a heroic environment yet but can anyone who is comment on how it does please?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelicat View Post
    The thing that frustrates me about arms is that we have really horrible burst and synergy with the major DPS cooldowns. Every class/spec can spike way higher than us with CDs, pot and heroism. It really sucks for certain fights (and heroic modes I would imagine).

    I haven't had a chance to play arms in a heroic environment yet but can anyone who is comment on how it does please?
    Survival huner's can't. Rapid fire isn't much of a dps boost and that just leaves a muder of crows and stampede (neither of which is particularly strong especially when survival spec).

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