1. #1

    Heroic 25man Council - Interrupting Sul

    Hi.

    My 25man raid is going to start progressing on Heroic Council and from a post on EJ I found that Sul the Sandcrawler can be permanently interrupted by a rogue using kick+DT when kick on CD - written by somebody doing the 25man normal version. When I addressed this issue to the rogue that's going to perform this, he stated that he will lose loads of DPS and he's unsure if it is actually doable - meaning if the cooldown on that cast is big enough for him to get 3CP up for the interrupt effect.

    Did anyone try this? Could you please elaborate why/why not is this a good idea since I don't main a rogue and don't know how much will this affect him ?

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    Dreadlord
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    Our guild just went with 3 rogues (could be done with pretty much any melee, preferably those that are weaker at targetswapping) to sit on him from pull until he dies, we multidotted with rupture and DP on nearby targets but focused the majority of our damage into Sul since we went with the tactic of killing him before he gets possessed to avoid sandstorms completely. And since we went for that tactic the dps on Sul was kind of nessessary.

  3. #3
    He will certainly lose loads of dps, but he should be able to get all the interrupts. The best way to do it if you are mostly concerned with interrupts is probably to use shuriken toss and deadly throw for the majority of interrupts and then shadowstep kick if he doesn't have at least 3cp, but that will cost the most dps. He could also use kick and then wait a couple seconds, run to range, use shuriken toss and DT until kick comes back up and then go back into melee. As for if it is possible, you need 3cp for an interrupt which if you use shuriken toss is 60 energy and then 25 energy for the interrupt which should be trivial to get fast enough for the next cast for either combat (higher base energy regen plus combat potency) or sub (free cp's even if you don't keep SnD up for more energy).

    No matter what, we are talking about an extremely significant dps loss (I'd guess about half of his dps) so whether or not it is worth it, is up to your raid. I haven't done heroic, but I'd say it is only a good idea if those casts are causing serious problems and you can't just sit a couple of melee on him or if doing that will prevent enough damage to allow you to take 1 less healer.

  4. #4
    I actually did try this for a few pulls and it is quite possible. I did it succesfully, and lost id say on average 15K dps. MAYBE 20K. Its all about timing, the first pull I tried was retarded doing this trying to figure out the timing, i would have lost a lot more dps. But if you memorize the timing between casts, and take into account the intermission with no cast, then it is doable, but not efficient.

    Your best bet is to just use 2 melee interrupters, 3 is ideal, 2 is possible.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    He will certainly lose loads of dps, but he should be able to get all the interrupts. The best way to do it if you are mostly concerned with interrupts is probably to use shuriken toss and deadly throw for the majority of interrupts and then shadowstep kick if he doesn't have at least 3cp, but that will cost the most dps. He could also use kick and then wait a couple seconds, run to range, use shuriken toss and DT until kick comes back up and then go back into melee.
    I have no idea why rogue should use ST there. Raid starts with hero on Sul (40-50 sec nuke at start), King dragged into melee range to Sul, Mar'li dragged into melee range after possession.
    Anticipation and envenom+rupture at 3+ anticipation charges ftw

  6. #6
    In my experience 2 interrupters was not enough (remember, we're talking 25 man - perhaps Sul casts less frequently on 10). That means rogue will need to do 3 interrupts over 15 seconds, 2 with Deadly Throw. It means he'll need to get 3CP twice, run out of melee twice to do DT and somehow maintain rest of his buffs/debuffs. Remember DT is on GCD unlike Kick. With some bad RNG (dodge/parry on combo point builder, bad energy regen procs) I can easily see it going wrong.

    What Sesshou posted makes sense as in - it should be most RNG proof way to do it due to low ST energy cost.

    ps. ohai TUWOD

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylie View Post
    In my experience 2 interrupters was not enough (remember, we're talking 25 man - perhaps Sul casts less frequently on 10). That means rogue will need to do 3 interrupts over 15 seconds, 2 with Deadly Throw. It means he'll need to get 3CP twice, run out of melee twice to do DT and somehow maintain rest of his buffs/debuffs. Remember DT is on GCD unlike Kick. With some bad RNG (dodge/parry on combo point builder, bad energy regen procs) I can easily see it going wrong.
    It easily works with anticipation with no need to stay out of melee range at all, just move when cast is started.
    Sand bolt is 2 sec cast, you can ignore GCD.

    P.S. With old pvp gloves bonus i solo interrupted RoS p2 and Malande (Illidari council - complete lockdown (not just heal) unless she had BoP) yet in TBC, and locking Sul is way easier. Both kick and DT were on GCD back then.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TUWOD View Post
    My 25man raid is going to start progressing on Heroic Council and from a post on EJ I found that Sul the Sandcrawler can be permanently interrupted by a rogue using kick+DT when kick on CD - written by somebody doing the 25man normal version. When I addressed this issue to the rogue that's going to perform this, he stated that he will lose loads of DPS and he's unsure if it is actually doable - meaning if the cooldown on that cast is big enough for him to get 3CP up for the interrupt effect.

    Did anyone try this? Could you please elaborate why/why not is this a good idea since I don't main a rogue and don't know how much will this affect him ?

    Thanks for reading.
    The gap between two interrupts is big enough. The real problem is "How does he get into melee range to kick, while also getting far enough out to do DT".
    In addition, how many other mechanics are going to be in the way between this ranged-rogue and Sul if the rogue moves out to ranged?

    To be honest, just put 3 people on it and have them call out "I got next" when they're able/willing to interrupt. This is how my 10-man guild does it, and since he doesn't spam-cast it after being interrupted (there's a wait time after each successful interrupt), you can put 3 people on it without having to worry.
    My recommendation would be having warriors mainly do it (they'll get damage buffs from successful interrupts) and then everyone else.

    Most importantly, DON'T CHEESE IT UNLESS YOU KNOW IT WORKS AND IT WON'T GET YOU BANNED.
    (cheesing it would include having only a rogue do it at the cost of most of their damage; it's too risky)
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  9. #9
    There is no way you could get banned for using a rogue to solo interrupt. I mean that isn't even really "creative use of game mechanics" as you are using an ability precisely for what they made it for. This isn't something new either. I solo interrupted Illidari council's heals (outside bop, had mages help during that) with my glove DT interrupt bonus. Rogues also solo interrupted Veezax with the talent that let FoK interrupt.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    There is no way you could get banned for using a rogue to solo interrupt. I mean that isn't even really "creative use of game mechanics" as you are using an ability precisely for what they made it for. This isn't something new either. I solo interrupted Illidari council's heals (outside bop, had mages help during that) with my glove DT interrupt bonus. Rogues also solo interrupted Veezax with the talent that let FoK interrupt.
    I know using game mechanics that are built to work as interrupts won't get you banned, I just said "...AND IT WON'T GET YOU BANNED" because some people's meaning of "cheesing the fight" is something that will get you banned (e.g. Team Malice bugging out Heroic Gara'jal in the first week by kiting him to a place where he won't be able to send out Voodoo Dolls for the rest of the fight).

    ...and there was a talent that let FoK interrupt?!
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    ...and there was a talent that let FoK interrupt?!
    There was - in combat tree during wotlk, can't remember the name.

    Edit: it was "Throwing Specialization", they removed interrupt from FoK at some point.
    Last edited by Aylie; 2013-03-31 at 11:04 PM.

  12. #12
    When they took the DT interrupt off the gloves, they added a talent in combat that allowed DT and FoK to interrupt. They took that away during late ToC I believe.

  13. #13
    A rogue can solo interrupt, but he'll do dogshit for damage (while being one of the strongest cleaves for this boss). You have a tank and a rogue that will be on Sul full time anyways, so just add another melee and set up a rotation. There's no way a 25m is short on interrupts.

  14. #14
    nooooo its not

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