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  1. #1

    Reintroduce minimum range requirement for hunters in PVP

    Dear forum,

    First of all I play exclusively casters this might skew my opinion a bit, but hunters are just like rogues broken on casters in my opinion, and just like rogues ( removing prep) Hunters are in my opinion easy to fix.

    Right now hunters have massive range (same as casters, but they can use it while moving without any sort of snare like KJC) and no way of getting away from that sick dmg in bg's, I remember the good old days when hunters always died on Marrowgar, they had a range requirement back then, I understand that in Pve this is a quality of life change, but this was never neccesary in PvP in my opinion.

    Right now hunters are incredible dmg monsters that mostly got buffs they didnt need in the first place( Powershot, talking BM mostly and mean in the course of cata till now, not last patch), melee and casters alike are getting kited but usually just bursted down with auto shots, while some six year old is clicking through his spellbook. I have heard people say that hunters have a high skill floor, but I doubt this is the case( dont have a hunter) anymore, atleast rogues in arena require an even amount of chromosomes ( barely ).
    On my lock and sp i really have trouble countering hunters cause they can fd, deterrence, disengage, readiness deterrence, camo ( pre combat) , powershot, knockback trap, stun, silence, icetrap. these are all cc's that can serve to open a gap, why do hunters not have min range anymore? Just like shuriken toss for rogues, not having min range makes hunters melee instead of ranged, hunters were by no means easy to counter in open combat to begin with, even in some arena maps hunters kan hit you from anywhere. It also doenst make sense from a lore perspective just about as much as a mage critting for 30k white hits while meleeing you with a wand does. Have you ever shot an arrow from point blank range. Hunters always were good dd but they had their niche, know theymight aswell wear plate and gem strength they are melee, but if they are shouldnt they have a smaller range?

    To me its either revert min range in PvP or decrease range in PvP. right now Hunters are uncounterable for casters without obstacles, and some arena maps barely have obstacles.

    I honestly think that pvp would improve with this change alot, some would call it a nerf but I would call it reverting back an unnecesary buff.

    Please discuss.....

  2. #2
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by impfernal View Post
    Dear forum,

    First of all I play exclusively casters this might skew my opinion a bit, but hunters are just like rogues broken on casters in my opinion, and just like rogues ( removing prep) Hunters are in my opinion easy to fix.

    Right now hunters have massive range (same as casters, but they can use it while moving without any sort of snare like KJC) and no way of getting away from that sick dmg in bg's, I remember the good old days when hunters always died on Marrowgar, they had a range requirement back then, I understand that in Pve this is a quality of life change, but this was never neccesary in PvP in my opinion.

    Right now hunters are incredible dmg monsters that mostly got buffs they didnt need in the first place( Powershot, talking BM mostly and mean in the course of cata till now, not last patch), melee and casters alike are getting kited but usually just bursted down with auto shots, while some six year old is clicking through his spellbook. I have heard people say that hunters have a high skill floor, but I doubt this is the case( dont have a hunter) anymore, atleast rogues in arena require an even amount of chromosomes ( barely ).
    On my lock and sp i really have trouble countering hunters cause they can fd, deterrence, disengage, readiness deterrence, camo ( pre combat) , powershot, knockback trap, stun, silence, icetrap. these are all cc's that can serve to open a gap, why do hunters not have min range anymore? Just like shuriken toss for rogues, not having min range makes hunters melee instead of ranged, hunters were by no means easy to counter in open combat to begin with, even in some arena maps hunters kan hit you from anywhere. It also doenst make sense from a lore perspective just about as much as a mage critting for 30k white hits while meleeing you with a wand does. Have you ever shot an arrow from point blank range. Hunters always were good dd but they had their niche, know theymight aswell wear plate and gem strength they are melee, but if they are shouldnt they have a smaller range?

    To me its either revert min range in PvP or decrease range in PvP. right now Hunters are uncounterable for casters without obstacles, and some arena maps barely have obstacles.

    I honestly think that pvp would improve with this change alot, some would call it a nerf but I would call it reverting back an unnecesary buff.

    Please discuss.....
    Rather than impose changes on others, perhaps put a bit of effort into... I don't know... learning to adapt?
    The problem isnt that hunters don't have a minimum range, its that when you're using your old "hump his leg and spam him with icelance/dots/ect" they aren't a "free kill" anymore.

    The reason hunters have so many gap creators, is because melee have so many gap closers. Simply put; Blizzard's march of progress conquers all.

    Also: Powershot SHOULD do big damage, considering it costs a talent point, has a decent cooldown and takes THREE FULL SECONDS to go off, still has travel time, and until the recent hotfix, could be negated with a simple strafe. Compare it to a warlock's Chaos Bolt, only gimped, with a mediocre knockback, and it breaks every CC between the hunter and the target.

    Put some context in before spouting sensationalist claims, man. You full pve geared? Blues? Resil stacked in full Tyrannical? What about the hunters steamrolling you? It can't be every fresh 90 in greens as a newbie BG hero is turning you into a pile of chunky salsa.
    PEBKAC error, imo.
    Last edited by Arcanimus; 2013-03-31 at 02:05 AM.
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    *bro fist*
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  3. #3
    Immortal Tierbook's Avatar
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    Arcanimus is right.... i remember getting frozen in place and just completely destroyed before i could even move
    You're a fine example of how gamer communities have become infested with endlessly whining and bitching, arrogant, opinionated, unreasonable, all the way immature, completely delusional, tendentially psychotic, insulting individuals one really doesn't want to be linked with. And playing with you guys is certainly no fun at all. I don't know where this kind of folks spawns from. Must be a nest somewhere ...
    A fine summarization of the community

  4. #4
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    Arcanimus is right.... i remember getting frozen in place and just completely destroyed before i could even move
    He's probably playing a mage, too... Oh the irony.
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    *bro fist*
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  5. #5
    Power shot needed to work a level 90 talent that had a chance to miss because of rng is dumb. Is the damage to high? maybe but it needed to work. Shuriken toss has a 30 yard range and most class can cast on the move but the auto attack part is a bit broken. Yeah you can shoot an arrow and a gun from point blank. The arrow wouldn't be as effective but the gun would.
    Last edited by worsthitmanNa; 2013-03-31 at 02:12 AM.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  6. #6
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by impfernal View Post
    some arena maps barely have obstacles.
    Woah, woah, woah.

    Just read that again.

    OP is clearly trolling, move along.

    User received infraction for minor spam. Please use the report button instead of making a post purely to tell someone is a troll.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-03-31 at 02:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    *bro fist*
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanimus View Post
    Woah, woah, woah.

    Just read that again.

    OP is clearly trolling, move along.
    Well, in a way he is right, the LoS of Ruins of Lordaeron has always been a bit sketchy on if it was LoS from that angle or not...
    I've have it i could cast across the tomb took one step left and couldn't cast again, really rather bizarre...

    That however is beside the point.

    No I don't believe hunters need to have a minimum range again, if anything they need less daze/slows so that people running can actually run more than 3% of the time they are trying to get away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Yeah, Europe certainly didn't play any sort of role in destroying the stability of Africa. The United States is literally the source of all evil. The United Satans, mirite?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanimus View Post
    Rather than impose changes on others, perhaps put a bit of effort into... I don't know... learning to adapt?
    The problem isnt that hunters don't have a minimum range, its that when you're using your old "hump his leg and spam him with icelance/dots/ect" they aren't a "free kill" anymore.

    The reason hunters have so many gap creators, is because melee have so many gap closers. Simply put; Blizzard's march of progress conquers all.

    Also: Powershot SHOULD do big damage, considering it costs a talent point, has a decent cooldown and takes THREE FULL SECONDS to go off, still has travel time, and until the recent hotfix, could be negated with a simple strafe. Compare it to a warlock's Chaos Bolt, only gimped, with a mediocre knockback, and it breaks every CC between the hunter and the target.

    Put some context in before spouting sensationalist claims, man. You full pve geared? Blues? Resil stacked in full Tyrannical? What about the hunters steamrolling you? It can't be every fresh 90 in greens as a newbie BG hero is turning you into a pile of chunky salsa.
    PEBKAC error, imo.
    For someone telling me to read into it you have alot of assumptions, also I don't get what you are talking about since this is not a nerf hunters thread. But if I understand correctly because of melee's gap closers hunters have gap openers, where do casters come in? On my wlock and sp theres no way ill be near you soon plus disengage is on a 25 sec cd, i reckon you can get some casts off.

    Hunters were never a free kill, they just had a strategy to counter just like "warr sits on wlock" is a strategy, the fact hunters were counterable to some extent does not imply they should now be uncounterable.

    I am full resi stacked in malev with some tyrranical pieces, also played on ptr with full tyrannical with resi gems and its the same story there.

    Next time you see a forum about your class please try to grasp what it's about and don't just assume it's a qq forum, I agree on your Blizzard comment which I interpreted as "it's broken, lets buff everyone to compensate" but whats wrong with reintroducing min range even if its 5 yards instead of 8 and you get 5 yards extra range?

    I think it makes no sense that a change so significant to PvP is simply "quality of life" part of the difference between crap and good hunters was how they would manage this min range. Just like casters have to fake cast, now thats gone and the game is going to shit cause of all the blanket stuns silences fears and in the meantime rogues can do ranged dmg and hunters shoot you from melee, its just odd to me.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by hitmannoob View Post
    Power shot needed to work a level 90 talent that had a chance to miss because of rng is dumb. Is the damage to high? maybe but it needed to work. Shuriken toss has a 30 yard range and most class can cast on the move but the auto attack part is a bit broken. Yeah you can shoot an arrow and a gun from point blank. The arrow wouldn't be as effective but the gun would.
    You have no idea how bows work, do you?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You have no idea how bows work, do you?
    You have no idea how fantasy work, do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Yeah, Europe certainly didn't play any sort of role in destroying the stability of Africa. The United States is literally the source of all evil. The United Satans, mirite?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanimus View Post
    He's probably playing a mage, too... Oh the irony.
    Dude, whats wrong with you? "too"; you could read what classes I play, it's not mage.

  12. #12
    If minimum distance is introduced for hunters, it can be introduced for all ranged classes too. That would be fair.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by impfernal View Post
    Dear forum,

    First of all I play exclusively casters this might skew my opinion a bit, but hunters are just like rogues broken on casters in my opinion, and just like rogues ( removing prep) Hunters are in my opinion easy to fix.

    Right now hunters have massive range (same as casters, but they can use it while moving without any sort of snare like KJC) and no way of getting away from that sick dmg in bg's, I remember the good old days when hunters always died on Marrowgar, they had a range requirement back then, I understand that in Pve this is a quality of life change, but this was never neccesary in PvP in my opinion.

    Right now hunters are incredible dmg monsters that mostly got buffs they didnt need in the first place( Powershot, talking BM mostly and mean in the course of cata till now, not last patch), melee and casters alike are getting kited but usually just bursted down with auto shots, while some six year old is clicking through his spellbook. I have heard people say that hunters have a high skill floor, but I doubt this is the case( dont have a hunter) anymore, atleast rogues in arena require an even amount of chromosomes ( barely ).
    On my lock and sp i really have trouble countering hunters cause they can fd, deterrence, disengage, readiness deterrence, camo ( pre combat) , powershot, knockback trap, stun, silence, icetrap. these are all cc's that can serve to open a gap, why do hunters not have min range anymore? Just like shuriken toss for rogues, not having min range makes hunters melee instead of ranged, hunters were by no means easy to counter in open combat to begin with, even in some arena maps hunters kan hit you from anywhere. It also doenst make sense from a lore perspective just about as much as a mage critting for 30k white hits while meleeing you with a wand does. Have you ever shot an arrow from point blank range. Hunters always were good dd but they had their niche, know theymight aswell wear plate and gem strength they are melee, but if they are shouldnt they have a smaller range?

    To me its either revert min range in PvP or decrease range in PvP. right now Hunters are uncounterable for casters without obstacles, and some arena maps barely have obstacles.

    I honestly think that pvp would improve with this change alot, some would call it a nerf but I would call it reverting back an unnecesary buff.

    Please discuss.....
    I never die to a hunter 1v1 on my blood DK so I think they are perfectly fine the way they are.
    ...Made it through 9 years of wow...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Saffa View Post
    If minimum distance is introduced for hunters, it can be introduced for all ranged classes too. That would be fair.
    Hunters are casters without any of the drawbacks of being a caster and with ONE drawback of being a physical damage dealer.

    How the hell can that be considered fair?

    Honestly though, I'd prefer if they try address the stupidity that is BM with having two extra trinkets as well as more control, burst and survivability than the other two specs.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Saffa View Post
    If minimum distance is introduced for hunters, it can be introduced for all ranged classes too. That would be fair.
    That would probably imbalance caster versus melee, since this would mean that casters need to peel for themselves to even get casts off, hunters also have pets that do damage and are in a niche of their own. From a lore perspective it would make more sense that hunters have a minimum range as opposed to casters.

    I understand why blizzard changed the minimum range in Pve but I feel Hunters have so many outs they don't really need it.

  16. #16
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saffa View Post
    If minimum distance is introduced for hunters, it can be introduced for all ranged classes too. That would be fair.
    Why would casters need a minimum range? Unlike hunters, casters can get interrupted, being both interruptable and having a minimum range would make it near impossible for a caster to get any casts off.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Why would casters need a minimum range? Unlike hunters, casters can get interrupted, being both interruptable and having a minimum range would make it near impossible for a caster to get any casts off.
    ^This. Not to mention there is an entire school of CC that is handed out to pretty much every class that works solely on casters (Silences). Interrupts, minimum range, and silences? No, just no.

    I do miss hunters having a dead zone - it made playing against them much more interesting when you could run around a corner, wait for them to follow you - then step into their dead zone and try to stay inside it with them to avoid taking damage. It was more interesting back then, but it always made hunters much harder to balance - either they needed the tools to be able to consistently put distance between everyone and themselves (in which case they could kite far too effectively), or they needed so much damage when they were able to fire that it compensated (which meant that if they partnered up with someone who could peel for them, they did far too much damage).

    No dead zone is utlimately better.
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  18. #18
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    Wait, what? You want to go back to Hunters having only 2 attacks when you sit on them so you can get an easy kill? Not sure why your asking for this, it used to be Hunters were easy prey for casters, just dance around in that magical spot between the max melee range and were ranged combat would start so they were constantly swapping weapons and never hitting anything, is that what you want back? To a good PvP Hunter minimum range won't make a difference they will still be able to kite you in circles, only bad PvPers will be affected. And if they brought it back they would also have to bring back stat sticks. So then Hunters would have double the weapon stats to wail on you with (not to mention the out cry from every other class wanting their totems, throwing weapons, ect. back) so I doubt they will bring it back. And to answer the question "Have you ever shot an arrow from point blank range." yes I have (with a crossbow into foam flush to the nose), it can be done and it's not hard, just point and shoot.

  19. #19
    Never, ever, ever gonna happen. Regardless of balance Blizzard would never enrage hunters to this degree. I know Blizzard loves the "bait and switch" technique but this is way too extreme. OP if you're just musing then fine but don't put any hope into this. The chances of it happening are zero.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saffa View Post
    If minimum distance is introduced for hunters, it can be introduced for all ranged classes too. That would be fair.
    i have no problem with minimum range for hunters if casters start casting again to do dmg, not spaming instants 24/7

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