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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamber View Post

    Another thing, Going deterrence while your pets still rip the target to shreds is a bit over-utilized by hunters, and it purely exclusive to hunters. All other forms of immunity have reduction to damage. Also, Divine shield isn't exactly in the same category, because it can be removed by the enemy.
    Reality check brought to you by cloak of shadows. If you really need more examples, I am sure more people here will be happy to bring them up. Dots still tick on the hunter, ground targeted aoe and cc's still work (lock stun). The hunter's pet, even as BM, isn't doing more than 50% of their damage, so deterrence is effectively the same damage loss as divine shield. And that assumes that with a deterrence'd up hunter you don't snare the pet and take 3 steps to negate 100% of damage, or root it, or cc it, since it's not immune even under bestial wrath.

    This just sounds like more ranting from someone upset they actually have to outplay a hunter, not just deadzone camp for free kills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helltrixz View Post
    Deterrences + camo + feign death during ascendance, hunt passive healing is better than wolves, I frostshock root the hunter and he freedoms and disengages away while I'm stuck in a root, I get a pet stun/silence shot/random partner shit during scatter so I can't ground the trap on my healer.
    you seriously need to examine some logs if you think a hunter's 2% per 2 sec healing is better than wolves, or that any arena hunter is using that talent over 15% damage reduction or a 2 min cd 30% heal anyway.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-03-31 at 05:23 AM. Reason: merged the 2 posts

  2. #42
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by easywayout View Post
    you seriously need to examine some logs if you think a hunter's 2% per 2 sec healing is better than wolves, or that any arena hunter is using that talent over 15% damage reduction or a 2 min cd 30% heal anyway.
    More likely he means 5% max healer per Chimera Shot for MM, or 5% max health per Disengage via Liberation ;p
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    More likely he means 5% max healer per Chimera Shot for MM, or 5% max health per Disengage via Liberation ;p
    Any of it really. None of it requires much thought on the hunters part and I do wonder if 2 % per 2 sec isn't better healing than wolves, even if no hunter actually specs it.

  4. #44
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Adding the dead zone again is a stupid idea and won't happen anytime soon as long as Blizzard has a brain and keeps making dollars.

    What I do think should happen is remove readiness from BM/SV, a good nerf that would be happily accepted in PvE.

  5. #45
    Look at all the QQ from people who cant outplay hunters. It's kinda pathetic people.

  6. #46
    The Patient HeroZero's Avatar
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    I feel like the time when hunters had a minimum range coincided with when casters had to cast nearly all their spells (like cast bar cast). Nowadays it seems everyone has an instant spell they can cast on the move and don't have to worry about spell pushback. Very little Spell pushback issues means hunter min range is un-needed, I think hunters should lose concussive shot (even though its been in the kit since time began). It seems like overkill now since they don't have to worry about min range.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkamedis View Post
    Look at all the QQ from people who cant outplay hunters. It's kinda pathetic people.
    Get ready to be bashed hard buddy
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Why would casters need a minimum range? Unlike hunters, casters can get interrupted, being both interruptable and having a minimum range would make it near impossible for a caster to get any casts off.
    disarm does the same for hunters that lockouts do for casters and it is a blanket ability. so how is it any different between them again? hunters with min range were at such a disadvantage to casters. play the class before you make a post about it, showing how little you know about it.

  9. #49
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djaye View Post
    disarm does the same for hunters that lockouts do for casters and it is a blanket ability. so how is it any different between them again? hunters with min range were at such a disadvantage to casters. play the class before you make a post about it, showing how little you know about it.
    You can disarm a caster as well, reducing their damage by a fair amount... You really can't compare a disarm to a hunter to a silence/interrupt on a caster, not to mention that disarms are on a 1 min cooldown, while interrupts can be as low as 12 seconds and silences as low as 20 seconds.

    And honestly, do you even have any idea of which classes I actually play?

  10. #50
    i find this thread amusing.

    i'm playing a frost dk, and yes, i used to play a hunter..

    but hunters have been nerfed to a point where they are once again below average. OMG THEY CAN MOVE WHILE SHOOTING! i mean, it's not like every class got a ton of cc now....

    as a dk, i can take down a hunter in a few seconds, where as every other caster (except elemental shamans i admit), got so manny cc's. it's perfectly duable to kill them with some effort, yes, but it takes a lot more time, and the chance of them bursting you down is a lot higher, where as hunters are just a free kill 80% of the time. removing their minimum range and you can make that a 100%.

  11. #51
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
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    I still feel that I am at a disadvantage when fighting SPriests, with all my tricks and CCs and 3 trinkets and everything else a BM Hunter has. In the end it's still SP > BM Hunter in 1on1.

    In 3on3 God Comp is considered one of the strongest setups, and it's caster only.

    Hunters need buffs.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    as a dk, i can take down a hunter in a few seconds, where as every other caster (except elemental shamans i admit), got so manny cc's. it's perfectly duable to kill them with some effort, yes, but it takes a lot more time, and the chance of them bursting you down is a lot higher, where as hunters are just a free kill 80% of the time. removing their minimum range and you can make that a 100%.
    I do wonder what kind of hunters you guys are meeting. Dk taking down a hunter in a few secs? Whatever happened to bw-ing asphyxiate, disengage silencing after a deathgrip with a freeedom when needed while max range kiting if it's 1v1?
    Quote Originally Posted by joepesci View Post
    I still feel that I am at a disadvantage when fighting SPriests, with all my tricks and CCs and 3 trinkets and everything else a BM Hunter has. In the end it's still SP > BM Hunter in 1on1.
    I agree, compared to how overpowered spriests are even hunters look average.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by impfernal View Post

    Dear forum,
    I can't believe I am responding to this but here it goes:

    Some backing,
    - Yes I understand just because hunters were weak forever does not excuse them from being strong at another point
    - Comparing hunters to another class is comparing apples to oranges and should not be allowed (but I am going to for this)

    Right now hunters are middle of the pack in representation, a lot higher than we've been forever. You say you play a caster, I find your comparisons so absurd and ill informed it's ridiculous. We are indeed above warlocks (which it seems you play) and this is the first time we've been above you in about ten seasons.

    This "ridiculous damage" we get from deadzone removal, please tell me where you see it. Our white hits basically do nothing and our cobra shot basically tickles other casters.

    I have been playing my hunter for around 11 seasons at a Duelist level (I'm not a gladiator, but by your post you are not either). I have played other characters such as my friend's warlock and currently I'm playing my friend's shadow priest. On any caster I play I never have problems with a hunter, on any arena. You say that there are not obstacles which I have no idea where this comes from.

    Our best reliable CC is every 28 seconds, which, can be stopped by the other team. Against good teams I have to scatter the healer, root the melee in place or something of the nature just to try to land it without it being consumed. Our best cooldown in arena right now can be stopped by most classes, warlocks can drop down and port up, mages can root and peace, aoe fear, vanish, etc.

    Comparing us against casters is neat because yes I can do damage constantly while running around, but I also cannot play any sort of dot on someone and then LoS until we can get pressure again.

    We are the pet class that has the hardest way to recover a pet vs other counterparts.

    Our RBG representation is so low because other classes bring what we have but better (every single RBG I run on my friends' or my caster alts is hunter-less and is caster stacked.

    I feel like this is a troll, if so bravo but the line (bursted down with auto shots), I juts could not help myself.

    All of this wall of text aside I will answer you question, no, the dead zone should never return. I truly believe any issue you have with hunters right now resides in your playing.

  14. #54
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helltrixz View Post
    I do wonder what kind of hunters you guys are meeting. Dk taking down a hunter in a few secs? Whatever happened to bw-ing asphyxiate, disengage silencing after a deathgrip with a freeedom when needed while max range kiting if it's 1v1?
    Well it's possible that a DK takes down a hunter in a few secs, if the Hunter used Readiness, BW, RoS, Disengage, Master's Call, Scatter Shot, Intimidation, Web Wrap, Silencing Shot, Explosive Trap, Freezing Trap and Deterrence against some other classes before the DK engaged him. If all these are on CD, the Hunter could die in a few secs.

    Did I forget something?
    Last edited by joepesci; 2013-03-31 at 09:59 AM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by joepesci View Post
    Well it's possible that a DK takes down a hunter in a few secs, if the Hunter used Readiness, BW, RoS, Disengage, Master's Call, Scatter Shot, Intimidation, Web Wrap, Silencing Shot, Explosive Trap, Freezing Trap and Deterrence against some other classes before the DK engaged him. If all these are on CD, the Hunter could die in a few secs.

    Did I forget something?
    Sounds about right.

  16. #56
    Dead zone will never be removed, as blizzard rarely make a change for pvp that doesn't also affect pve.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyn View Post
    I can't believe I am responding to this but here it goes:

    Some backing,
    - Yes I understand just because hunters were weak forever does not excuse them from being strong at another point
    - Comparing hunters to another class is comparing apples to oranges and should not be allowed (but I am going to for this)

    Right now hunters are middle of the pack in representation, a lot higher than we've been forever. You say you play a caster, I find your comparisons so absurd and ill informed it's ridiculous. We are indeed above warlocks (which it seems you play) and this is the first time we've been above you in about ten seasons.

    This "ridiculous damage" we get from deadzone removal, please tell me where you see it. Our white hits basically do nothing and our cobra shot basically tickles other casters.

    I have been playing my hunter for around 11 seasons at a Duelist level (I'm not a gladiator, but by your post you are not either). I have played other characters such as my friend's warlock and currently I'm playing my friend's shadow priest. On any caster I play I never have problems with a hunter, on any arena. You say that there are not obstacles which I have no idea where this comes from.

    Our best reliable CC is every 28 seconds, which, can be stopped by the other team. Against good teams I have to scatter the healer, root the melee in place or something of the nature just to try to land it without it being consumed. Our best cooldown in arena right now can be stopped by most classes, warlocks can drop down and port up, mages can root and peace, aoe fear, vanish, etc.

    Comparing us against casters is neat because yes I can do damage constantly while running around, but I also cannot play any sort of dot on someone and then LoS until we can get pressure again.

    We are the pet class that has the hardest way to recover a pet vs other counterparts.

    Our RBG representation is so low because other classes bring what we have but better (every single RBG I run on my friends' or my caster alts is hunter-less and is caster stacked.

    I feel like this is a troll, if so bravo but the line (bursted down with auto shots), I juts could not help myself.

    All of this wall of text aside I will answer you question, no, the dead zone should never return. I truly believe any issue you have with hunters right now resides in your playing.
    I started playing warlock these last two seasons and played sp before, but thats beside the point saying "you can't say anything cause you play this and this class" is really the lowest level argument in existence. Also representation only means something in relative terms, warlocks have always been well represented like some other classes cause they were strong if not borderline op back in for instance cata, if this shifts it merely means comps have an alternative thats better than this class ( hence high sp rep instead of wlocks) or that the class is less strong than it was before.

    I will try and explain this carefully :"this thread is about minimum range and that I find it hard to counter hunters in bg's and some arena maps. Theres no extra damage from min range removal, min range removal does make hunters a lot harder to counter with the toolbox they have at their disposal some of which are extra effective against casters( blanket silence; also dont compare disarm to silence in your reply it's just silly). Some maps its harder to Los that others, obviously you are also getting raped by a pet in the meantime, maybe even wasting a fear on the pet, whereas before you would hug the hunter fear em both ( maybe hunters were weaker before, but arent they stronger than they have ever been now?)


    Please explain how a felhunter does epic dmg to you, i can understand dk, but your "pet class" comment i reckon anything but warlock, fmages are a pet class too right?

    Does silencing shot count as a cc 26 sec cd, plus its about gap openers, so that 1 chain you want to pull has nothing to do with the actual topic of min range.

    The auto shot comment was merely how it sometimes feels in bg's, this post is not a troll which would go against forum rules. But I would highly recommend you to do some arena's on your friend warlock or play some decent hunters and find out how you have no problems with em. You will probably end up buying a new keyboard, and have qwerty mirrored on your forehead for a long time to come.

  18. #58
    Pr0 hunter saying they dont do dmg if they had a deadzone again....
    like if the pet wasnt doing dmg lol
    like if they have problem keeping ppl in range

    Have you tried deadzone with the game desing in pandaria? no of course...you cant say if it is a good change or not, lets try and if it so bad they can revert it


  19. #59
    The Patient Injinjpow's Avatar
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    If you make hunter range 5-41 yards like it used to be you would need to remove half of the instant cc from the game and then i would think pvp would be a lot closer to balanced than it is now. Don't even get me started on spriests fear spam.
    Last edited by Injinjpow; 2013-03-31 at 02:04 PM.

  20. #60
    Stood in the Fire Sforza's Avatar
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    A ranged damage dealer that cannot be stopped by any means and has mostly instant attacks. This cant be right.
    Theres obviosly a big issue here and i dont see a way out other than bringing their deadzone back.

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