Reintroduce minimum range requirement for hunters in PVP

[Thelxi]

Adding the dead zone again is a stupid idea and won't happen anytime soon as long as Blizzard has a brain and keeps making dollars.

What I do think should happen is remove readiness from BM/SV, a good nerf that would be happily accepted in PvE.

[Arkamedis]

Look at all the QQ from people who cant outplay hunters. It's kinda pathetic people.

[HeroZero]

I feel like the time when hunters had a minimum range coincided with when casters had to cast nearly all their spells (like cast bar cast). Nowadays it seems everyone has an instant spell they can cast on the move and don't have to worry about spell pushback. Very little Spell pushback issues means hunter min range is un-needed, I think hunters should lose concussive shot (even though its been in the kit since time began). It seems like overkill now since they don't have to worry about min range.

[pkm]

Look at all the QQ from people who cant outplay hunters. It's kinda pathetic people.

Get ready to be bashed hard buddy

[Djaye]

Why would casters need a minimum range? Unlike hunters, casters can get interrupted, being both interruptable and having a minimum range would make it near impossible for a caster to get any casts off.

disarm does the same for hunters that lockouts do for casters and it is a blanket ability. so how is it any different between them again? hunters with min range were at such a disadvantage to casters. play the class before you make a post about it, showing how little you know about it.

[Nicola]

disarm does the same for hunters that lockouts do for casters and it is a blanket ability. so how is it any different between them again? hunters with min range were at such a disadvantage to casters. play the class before you make a post about it, showing how little you know about it.

You can disarm a caster as well, reducing their damage by a fair amount... You really can't compare a disarm to a hunter to a silence/interrupt on a caster, not to mention that disarms are on a 1 min cooldown, while interrupts can be as low as 12 seconds and silences as low as 20 seconds.

And honestly, do you even have any idea of which classes I actually play?

[Garkanh]

i find this thread amusing.

i'm playing a frost dk, and yes, i used to play a hunter..

but hunters have been nerfed to a point where they are once again below average. OMG THEY CAN MOVE WHILE SHOOTING! i mean, it's not like every class got a ton of cc now....

as a dk, i can take down a hunter in a few seconds, where as every other caster (except elemental shamans i admit), got so manny cc's. it's perfectly duable to kill them with some effort, yes, but it takes a lot more time, and the chance of them bursting you down is a lot higher, where as hunters are just a free kill 80% of the time. removing their minimum range and you can make that a 100%.

[Deleted]

I still feel that I am at a disadvantage when fighting SPriests, with all my tricks and CCs and 3 trinkets and everything else a BM Hunter has. In the end it's still SP > BM Hunter in 1on1.

In 3on3 God Comp is considered one of the strongest setups, and it's caster only.

Hunters need buffs.

[Kalyn]

Dear forum,

I can't believe I am responding to this but here it goes:

Some backing,
- Yes I understand just because hunters were weak forever does not excuse them from being strong at another point
- Comparing hunters to another class is comparing apples to oranges and should not be allowed (but I am going to for this)

Right now hunters are middle of the pack in representation, a lot higher than we've been forever. You say you play a caster, I find your comparisons so absurd and ill informed it's ridiculous. We are indeed above warlocks (which it seems you play) and this is the first time we've been above you in about ten seasons.

This "ridiculous damage" we get from deadzone removal, please tell me where you see it. Our white hits basically do nothing and our cobra shot basically tickles other casters.

I have been playing my hunter for around 11 seasons at a Duelist level (I'm not a gladiator, but by your post you are not either). I have played other characters such as my friend's warlock and currently I'm playing my friend's shadow priest. On any caster I play I never have problems with a hunter, on any arena. You say that there are not obstacles which I have no idea where this comes from.

Our best reliable CC is every 28 seconds, which, can be stopped by the other team. Against good teams I have to scatter the healer, root the melee in place or something of the nature just to try to land it without it being consumed. Our best cooldown in arena right now can be stopped by most classes, warlocks can drop down and port up, mages can root and peace, aoe fear, vanish, etc.

Comparing us against casters is neat because yes I can do damage constantly while running around, but I also cannot play any sort of dot on someone and then LoS until we can get pressure again.

We are the pet class that has the hardest way to recover a pet vs other counterparts.

Our RBG representation is so low because other classes bring what we have but better (every single RBG I run on my friends' or my caster alts is hunter-less and is caster stacked.

I feel like this is a troll, if so bravo but the line (bursted down with auto shots), I juts could not help myself.

All of this wall of text aside I will answer you question, no, the dead zone should never return. I truly believe any issue you have with hunters right now resides in your playing.

[Deleted]

I do wonder what kind of hunters you guys are meeting. Dk taking down a hunter in a few secs? Whatever happened to bw-ing asphyxiate, disengage silencing after a deathgrip with a freeedom when needed while max range kiting if it's 1v1?

Well it's possible that a DK takes down a hunter in a few secs, if the Hunter used Readiness, BW, RoS, Disengage, Master's Call, Scatter Shot, Intimidation, Web Wrap, Silencing Shot, Explosive Trap, Freezing Trap and Deterrence against some other classes before the DK engaged him. If all these are on CD, the Hunter could die in a few secs.

Did I forget something?

[Speedlance]

Dead zone will never be removed, as blizzard rarely make a change for pvp that doesn't also affect pve.

[Deleted]

I can't believe I am responding to this but here it goes:

Some backing,
- Yes I understand just because hunters were weak forever does not excuse them from being strong at another point
- Comparing hunters to another class is comparing apples to oranges and should not be allowed (but I am going to for this)

Right now hunters are middle of the pack in representation, a lot higher than we've been forever. You say you play a caster, I find your comparisons so absurd and ill informed it's ridiculous. We are indeed above warlocks (which it seems you play) and this is the first time we've been above you in about ten seasons.

This "ridiculous damage" we get from deadzone removal, please tell me where you see it. Our white hits basically do nothing and our cobra shot basically tickles other casters.

I have been playing my hunter for around 11 seasons at a Duelist level (I'm not a gladiator, but by your post you are not either). I have played other characters such as my friend's warlock and currently I'm playing my friend's shadow priest. On any caster I play I never have problems with a hunter, on any arena. You say that there are not obstacles which I have no idea where this comes from.

Our best reliable CC is every 28 seconds, which, can be stopped by the other team. Against good teams I have to scatter the healer, root the melee in place or something of the nature just to try to land it without it being consumed. Our best cooldown in arena right now can be stopped by most classes, warlocks can drop down and port up, mages can root and peace, aoe fear, vanish, etc.

Comparing us against casters is neat because yes I can do damage constantly while running around, but I also cannot play any sort of dot on someone and then LoS until we can get pressure again.

We are the pet class that has the hardest way to recover a pet vs other counterparts.

Our RBG representation is so low because other classes bring what we have but better (every single RBG I run on my friends' or my caster alts is hunter-less and is caster stacked.

I feel like this is a troll, if so bravo but the line (bursted down with auto shots), I juts could not help myself.

All of this wall of text aside I will answer you question, no, the dead zone should never return. I truly believe any issue you have with hunters right now resides in your playing.

I started playing warlock these last two seasons and played sp before, but thats beside the point saying "you can't say anything cause you play this and this class" is really the lowest level argument in existence. Also representation only means something in relative terms, warlocks have always been well represented like some other classes cause they were strong if not borderline op back in for instance cata, if this shifts it merely means comps have an alternative thats better than this class ( hence high sp rep instead of wlocks) or that the class is less strong than it was before.

I will try and explain this carefully :"this thread is about minimum range and that I find it hard to counter hunters in bg's and some arena maps. Theres no extra damage from min range removal, min range removal does make hunters a lot harder to counter with the toolbox they have at their disposal some of which are extra effective against casters( blanket silence; also dont compare disarm to silence in your reply it's just silly). Some maps its harder to Los that others, obviously you are also getting raped by a pet in the meantime, maybe even wasting a fear on the pet, whereas before you would hug the hunter fear em both ( maybe hunters were weaker before, but arent they stronger than they have ever been now?)


Please explain how a felhunter does epic dmg to you, i can understand dk, but your "pet class" comment i reckon anything but warlock, fmages are a pet class too right?

Does silencing shot count as a cc 26 sec cd, plus its about gap openers, so that 1 chain you want to pull has nothing to do with the actual topic of min range.

The auto shot comment was merely how it sometimes feels in bg's, this post is not a troll which would go against forum rules. But I would highly recommend you to do some arena's on your friend warlock or play some decent hunters and find out how you have no problems with em. You will probably end up buying a new keyboard, and have qwerty mirrored on your forehead for a long time to come.

[Deleted]

Pr0 hunter saying they dont do dmg if they had a deadzone again....
like if the pet wasnt doing dmg lol
like if they have problem keeping ppl in range

Have you tried deadzone with the game desing in pandaria? no of course...you cant say if it is a good change or not, lets try and if it so bad they can revert it

[Injinjpow]

If you make hunter range 5-41 yards like it used to be you would need to remove half of the instant cc from the game and then i would think pvp would be a lot closer to balanced than it is now. Don't even get me started on spriests fear spam.

[Sforza]

A ranged damage dealer that cannot be stopped by any means and has mostly instant attacks. This cant be right.
Theres obviosly a big issue here and i dont see a way out other than bringing their deadzone back.

[kojoo86]

you shouldnt feed a tr**l but anyway...
I dont understand how this thread can be discussed any further, when in fact blizzard made the change, knowing what the outcome would be and has stuck by it. All classes have profited from it one way or another. Especially from a PvE standpoint is has been a refreshing change in Quality of Life for hunters and the Raid as a whole. To be quite frank, not only the hunter has profited from these changes...

The solution to the T.Os issue is very simple L2P. Thats it.. nothing more, nothing less... Honestly instead of QQ about why you fail at playing ur class, maybe you should ask in your class forum, why it is that you are failing, even if it is to a particular class... duel and practice.. maybe... Just a thought, instead of trying to suggest changes that would evidently nerf the other character to compensate for your failure to master your class, perhaps you should rather spend time and work on ur skill.

[kojoo86]

A ranged damage dealer that cannot be stopped by any means and has mostly instant attacks. This cant be right.
Theres obviosly a big issue here and i dont see a way out other than bringing their deadzone back.

I am not sure which character you are referring to... again if u cant stop a hunter, its probably your lack of skill rather than the op char.

Personally i had issues with warriors, because i couldnt catch a break... then i sat down with one, and read up on their cd's ranges etc now i dont go WTFIMGONNADIE when i see one...

[Deleted]

I am not sure which character you are referring to... again if u cant stop a hunter, its probably your lack of skill rather than the op char.

Since hunter dmg at the moment are 50/50 with their pets, is hard keeping in cc both of them for more then like 5 sec?

[Goretex]

Hunters are casters without any of the drawbacks of being a caster and with ONE drawback of being a physical damage dealer.

How the hell can that be considered fair?

Honestly though, I'd prefer if they try address the stupidity that is BM with having two extra trinkets as well as more control, burst and survivability than the other two specs.

See the thing that is wrong here is having 2 trinkets doesn't really matter once you use them when needed in most cases, because 20% of our damage comes from that trinket. For example lets say I'm sapped by a rogue, I use my trinket. Then lets say his buddy mage polymorphs me right after I use my trinket. Then I use Beastial Wrath to get out of that and I'm sapped again. Really it's ok in some situations but for the most part pointless, I usually use my BW for high burst on cd's rather than a trinket anymore because you'll waste that 20% damage and just get cc'd again. Really it's not as good as some people think it to be.

And with mages having a hard time with hunters? you must be doing it wrong or the hunters have better gear. The only things we have to really counter mages burst or any caster is deterrance and LoS pillars. And sometimes feign death if a caster is stupid. But our deterrance only lasts 5 sec cd compared to mages ice block for 30 sec? lol If they take away min range for hunters we'll just gimped a little more.

---------- Post added 2013-03-31 at 08:27 AM ----------

i find this thread amusing.

i'm playing a frost dk, and yes, i used to play a hunter..

but hunters have been nerfed to a point where they are once again below average. OMG THEY CAN MOVE WHILE SHOOTING! i mean, it's not like every class got a ton of cc now....

as a dk, i can take down a hunter in a few seconds, where as every other caster (except elemental shamans i admit), got so manny cc's. it's perfectly duable to kill them with some effort, yes, but it takes a lot more time, and the chance of them bursting you down is a lot higher, where as hunters are just a free kill 80% of the time. removing their minimum range and you can make that a 100%.

I have to agree with most of this, even though I play a hunter. When me and my friends do arena and see a hunter, we say nuke the hunter down first! I would say it works 95% of the time.

I laugh to my friends when the other team doesn't nuke me down, an dI tell my friends they shoul dof went after me first they prolly would of won lol.

But mostly thats the key to beating hunters is nuking them down first or CCing their there pet constantly. Take away my pet there isn't much I can do esecially since the changes to BW where ppl can cc my pet when I have it up. And oh how I hate when my pet is feared out of master's call Range. Yea we can scatter shot, serp sting, Arcane shot and launch traps while our pet is CC'd but it can really come up short with a healer team.

[Deleted]

For example lets say I'm sapped by a rogue, I use my trinket. Then lets say his buddy mage polymorphs me right after I use my trinket. Then I use Beastial Wrath to get out of that and I'm sapped again

some big 2 sec sap, since is on diminishing

When me and my friends do arena and see a hunter, we say nuke the hunter down first! I would say it works 95% of the time.

This isnt stopping the hunter to do dmg, at least maybe sometimes (disarm/deterrance) you stop 60% of his dmg, but this is the price for going defensive

I think you're average hunters guys, since im seeing some good hunter doing 2v1 at 1700 rating (not so big rating but still is 2v1), and he have not so much problem vs double dps or healer dps.