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  1. #1

    How much haste is too much haste

    Hi I was just wondering how much haste is too much for survival spec would 9000 be way to much?

  2. #2
    First off, survival has no use for haste so yes, 9000 is way above and beyond. There is a haste cap in WoW so you can always have too much haste, don't know what it is off hand, but you can certainly look it up. As survival you want to reforge and maximize: hit (7.5) = expertise (7.5) > crit >mastery >haste.

  3. #3
    sorry, cant answer your question, maybe the absolute hard cap would be a point, where you dont need to cast cs to regen focus :-)


    anyway, when someone tell you haste is useless stat and you shoul do this, etc ..... dont believe him, there is usually much more behind.

    imho try to search a older posts about haste affecting trinkett procs, trere was some nice math, so maybe you can find something useful over there.


    fyi, for whar i know, hasre is affecting following:
    - more ranged attacks
    - higher focus regen
    - new trinkets procs
    - new t15 set procs
    - pet focus regen
    - more pet mele attacks
    Last edited by franto; 2013-04-07 at 10:29 AM.

  4. #4
    I think the very rough rule of thumb is if the cast time for your spell/attack is less than the GCD, then you may have too much haste for that particular spell/ability. (Assuming mobility isn't an issue and you are standing still)

    Beyond that, haste values vary wildly between different specs/classes.

  5. #5
    Right now the value of haste depends on your gear, pretty much every other thread talks about T15 and the new trinkets. Since are set bonus and trinkets are now RPPM based, having haste isn't bad. The more you have the higher chance of proccing said things.
    Granted RNG is RNG, but for survival getting one of the things (2pc/4pc or 1-2 trinkets) Haste pulls ahead of mastery.

  6. #6
    So simply (Crit > Haste > Mastery) until further notice.
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  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    How in the world do you have 9k haste? I'm at like 2.5k with Crit > Haste > Mastery reforge...

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as "Too much haste", just reforge accordingly to your stat weights and if you have 9k haste that way, then fine, not much you can do with the gear you have.

  9. #9
    Oh god here we go with the mastery vs haste debate again.

  10. #10
    The Patient Gregorian's Avatar
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    The stat prio for all hunter specs is as following:

    Hit Cap, Exp Cap> Crit > Haste > Mastery

    Mastery > Haste is wrong. Source: Personal experience + I asked Devai, the hunter of Lightning's Blade Dream Paragon guild, while he was streaming on twitch tv. He confirmed it.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    Oh god here we go with the mastery vs haste debate again.
    There's no debate. With at least one RPPM item, haste>mastery. Without mastery>haste.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-07 at 01:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregorian View Post
    Mastery > Haste is wrong. Source: Personal experience + I asked Devai, the hunter of Lightning's Blade Dream Paragon guild, while he was streaming on twitch tv. He confirmed it.
    That source doesn't really mean anything... Just because you are in a top guild and can play close to perfectly, doesn't mean you can theorycraft and do the maths on trinkets and stats. That's just anecdotal evidence, no facts what so ever.

  12. #12
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyflu View Post
    That source doesn't really mean anything... Just because you are in a top guild and can play close to perfectly, doesn't mean you can theorycraft and do the maths on trinkets and stats. That's just anecdotal evidence, no facts what so ever.
    And yet all sources out there show the same stat prio....
    Hit Cap, Exp Cap> Crit > Haste > Mastery

    As far as theory crafting goes, that to me has only so much value, theoretical value....
    It has zero to do with real time environment influence. For all it shows is a theoretical number, that's based on the most perfect scenario. If all stars align properly, and all procs pop in the most ideal moment, and all kinds of other influences play out absolutely perfect, then the theory craft proves to be valid.
    But to have that kind of scenario, is about the same as getting the winning lottery ticket.

    All in all you can hardly call THEORY crafting a fact. It's called theory for a reason.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    And yet all sources out there show the same stat prio....
    Hit Cap, Exp Cap> Crit > Haste > Mastery

    As far as theory crafting goes, that to me has only so much value, theoretical value....
    It has zero to do with real time environment influence. For all it shows is a theoretical number, that's based on the most perfect scenario. If all stars align properly, and all procs pop in the most ideal moment, and all kinds of other influences play out absolutely perfect, then the theory craft proves to be valid.
    But to have that kind of scenario, is about the same as getting the winning lottery ticket.

    All in all you can hardly call THEORY crafting a fact. It's called theory for a reason.
    Yes, but if you only go by anecdotal evidence then you will have such a small sample size that meaning that your "if all the stars align properly" argument is completely turned against you, because when you use Simcraft or FemaleDwarf it does a lot of calculations and take shows you what would be the thing you have the highest chance of seeing, as oppose to how you want it to be, going of anecdotal evidence means that the ones that to very very well will have an amazing RNG streak and getting the procs at the correct time and such.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregorian View Post
    The stat prio for all hunter specs is as following:

    Hit Cap, Exp Cap> Crit > Haste > Mastery

    Mastery > Haste is wrong. Source: Personal experience + I asked Devai, the hunter of Lightning's Blade Dream Paragon guild, while he was streaming on twitch tv. He confirmed it.
    Figured it was common knowledge by now, but you only go Haste > Mastery when you acquire at least 1 RPPM item, be it trinket or tier bonus.

  15. #15
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyflu View Post
    Yes, but if you only go by anecdotal evidence then you will have such a small sample size that meaning that your "if all the stars align properly" argument is completely turned against you, because when you use Simcraft or FemaleDwarf it does a lot of calculations and take shows you what would be the thing you have the highest chance of seeing, as oppose to how you want it to be, going of anecdotal evidence means that the ones that to very very well will have an amazing RNG streak and getting the procs at the correct time and such.
    I understand your point of anecdotal, don't get me wrong.
    But, you cannot neglect the source right away. When your car breaks down, and the mechanic tells you that the gas pump doesn't work properly, do you call that anecdotal or do you take his professional expertise as valid? He didn't bother using electronic tools to check on the matter, he only used his skills to make that diagnosis...
    The same can be used here. I am pretty sure that one can trust players of the Worlds best guild with their judgement. Not to mention that you only assume now how he has no idea about theorycrafting. Maybe he does have. I don't know, do you?
    As for myself, I have for years, the best experience with rather following guides and suggestions from the raiders of the worlds best guilds than with following spread sheets and sites like EJ. This you may now call anecdotal , but that's my personal experience. If I wanna know something, I went and go to Paragon, Ensidia etc.
    Brings me back to my car. That I also bring to a real mechanic, and not to some drive thru pit stop.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    I understand your point of anecdotal, don't get me wrong.
    But, you cannot neglect the source right away. When your car breaks down, and the mechanic tells you that the gas pump doesn't work properly, do you call that anecdotal or do you take his professional expertise as valid? He didn't bother using electronic tools to check on the matter, he only used his skills to make that diagnosis...
    The same can be used here. I am pretty sure that one can trust players of the Worlds best guild with their judgement. Not to mention that you only assume now how he has no idea about theorycrafting. Maybe he does have. I don't know, do you?
    As for myself, I have for years, the best experience with rather following guides and suggestions from the raiders of the worlds best guilds than with following spread sheets and sites like EJ. This you may now call anecdotal , but that's my personal experience. If I wanna know something, I went and go to Paragon, Ensidia etc.
    Brings me back to my car. That I also bring to a real mechanic, and not to some drive thru pit stop.
    Well, the thing is that just because you are in a top guild doesn't mean that you know how to figure out the best dps possible. And even if you were to know that for your own character when you're in Paragon or Method, that might not apply to any other hunter due to gear difference and they most likely change setups for different bosses if needed, meaning you can't take what the people in top guilds as the end all be all way of doing it.

  17. #17
    I'd go with: you have to much haste when your haste is higher than your crit.
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  18. #18
    I'm going haste>crit>mastery, since i have 4 pieces t15 and 2 rppm trinkets. The more they proc the better (having bad juju proc 3 times in a row, with me having an army of 9 gnomes at the same time is awesome).
    Tried both crit>haste>mastery and haste>crit>mastery while raiding, can't say that I did better on either, but I do feel more comfortable with haste as top secondary stat.

    About what devai said about crit>haste, kennyloggings is atm using haste>crit, so just because 1 top player reforges in a way doesn't mean it's the right way or the wrong way.
    Try it yourself, test it yourself. You may like casting stuff faster and having more trinket/tier set procs, at the cost of crits, or the other way around.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarBringerPT View Post
    I'm going haste>crit>mastery, since i have 4 pieces t15 and 2 rppm trinkets. The more they proc the better (having bad juju proc 3 times in a row, with me having an army of 9 gnomes at the same time is awesome).
    Tried both crit>haste>mastery and haste>crit>mastery while raiding, can't say that I did better on either, but I do feel more comfortable with haste as top secondary stat.

    About what devai said about crit>haste, kennyloggings is atm using haste>crit, so just because 1 top player reforges in a way doesn't mean it's the right way or the wrong way.
    Try it yourself, test it yourself. You may like casting stuff faster and having more trinket/tier set procs, at the cost of crits, or the other way around.
    Too much haste is an issue, with Bad Juju, your procs may overlap.

    However 2pc and 4pc can have as much haste as possible as they are separate and multiple can happen at once or in 5 sec window.

    I will likely go Haste>Crit if there is enough evidence that with 4 RPPM procs(2pc, 4pc, Bad juju, Renataki) Haste would overtake crit.
    Just because 1-2 in top guilds go for weird reforge ways, doesn't mean you should. They might do that on purpose to throw off everyone else or they are experimenting.

  20. #20
    Information is wildly conflicting. Crit is still superior to haste... and some players even debate that. You're probably safe prioritizing mastery or haste after crit, whichever strikes your fancy, really. It's going to come down to personal play at that point.

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