1. #1

    Let's Fix PvP: An "Everyone Wins" Solution.

    I originally posted this on Reddit. Hivemind took no interest. I try again here.

    IMPORTANT: No, Ranked BG and Arena teams, the following suggestion does not necessarily include you. You can keep your precious PvP related gear and stats. You would not be affected. Read more for details.

    Let's face it. Non-competitive PvP (emphasis on this phrase, as it is the crux of my argument; remember that) needs much improvement. Most veterans would say it has been broken for a long while now. At least since Resil (soon to be gone, sorta).

    The casual player (average, majority of, etc.), probably doesn't care about competitive or Ranked PvP, but probably still wants to experience that side of the game once in a while. "That side of the game" meaning play against another human controlled entity.

    The more serious players either raid (and treat the game like a job), or PvP on an Arena team/BG Premade (and treat the game like a sport).

    What we need to do, is do away with the "serious" nature of un-Ranked BG PvP and WPvP. How do we accomplish this? Well, for starters, here are some ideas:

    • Disable all PvP related stats, when in un-instanced (e.g. World) PvP, and un-Ranked BG.
    • Reduce the BG respawn timer to 5/10/15/debatable seconds.

    Again, the above would only apply to un-Ranked battles. Ranked battles (BG, Arena) would retain the current system (30 sec respawn, permanent death, etc.).

    With this method, un-Ranked (aka FUN) PvP is fun and fast paced again. "Deathmatch style", if you will.

    Can you get nuked/bursted/facerolled?
    Sure.

    Don't like nukes/bursts/facerolls?
    Do one of the following
    • Don't play PvP.
    • Don't roll on a PvP server.
    • Don't complain about it.
    • Accept it.

    Do nukes/bursts/facerolls happen in competitive PvP?
    No. ... YES.

    Will this break Twinking?
    It wont. It will actually improve it. Faster re-spawn means more lulz, trolling and griefing. Blizzard loves twinks. Don't argue it.

    What about non-competitive Arena?
    Imagine this: No more perma-death. Short respawn, with 5/15/15/debatable minute battles.

    Some issues:

    How does this method keep organized groups separate from PuG queues? Is that really that much of an issue to begin with?

    Certainly the vast majority of PvP at any given time is PuG vs PuG.
    Last edited by Tyindor; 2013-03-31 at 07:26 PM.

  2. #2
    I can see why the hivemind ignored this.

    People enjoy being competitive. Why do you think everyone used to complain about AV when it turned into a stalemate where both sides kept rushing in and dying over and over?

  3. #3
    The Patient Boxerlol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inivux View Post
    I originally posted this on Reddit. Hivemind took no interest. I try again here.

    What we need to do, is do away with the "serious" nature of un-Ranked BG PvP and WPvP. How do we accomplish this? Well, for starters, here are some ideas:

    • Disable all PvP related stats, when in un-instanced (e.g. World) PvP, and un-Ranked BG.
    • Reduce the BG respawn timer to 5/10/15/debatable seconds.
    I really don't understand how this will solve the solution of "broken pvp"?
    Just makes it sound like your whining because your getting zerged in bgs.
    Dont get your argument...

    And btw, the whole point of Player vs Player is to be competitive..... ?! thats why people do pvp in any situation..

  4. #4
    I don't get it.
    PvP is already extremely fast paced outside certain instances and some arena comps.
    PvP stats outside the issue with T2 last season I feel helps more than it hurts as well; I'm excited for the changes next patch.

    The only issues PvP has is the extreme lack of balance (causing people to re-roll every patch for FoTM - Screwing ladders) and the lack of reward for the general player.
    Maybe if people felt a reason to play they'd play. This isn't anything that'd entice.

    -- Signature by /the/ Crazytaco --

  5. #5
    I dont understand how this will "fix" PVP at all.

  6. #6
    This won't fix casual PVP at all, also I don't understand why people don't consider random BGs and low rated 2's casual, they certainly aren't competitive and there really isn't any negative repercussions for losing. Your ideas just emphasizes burst play which will only promote unskilled play. 15 second ress timer is way too short and will just promote turtling. How will you ever get a EOTS base when everyone on defense keeps ressing every 10 seconds? By the way, ress timer on rated battlegrounds is 45 seconds, not 30.

  7. #7
    I think on the other hand that after 5.3 unranked bg's is where there should be no item lvl cap and let PVE players go crazy with their trinkets and legendary items...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post

    The only issues PvP has is the extreme lack of balance (causing people to re-roll every patch for FoTM - Screwing ladders) and the lack of reward for the general player.
    easy way to fix that, 5 or 10 gladiator spots for every spec, so if you wanna roll the fotm comp and hit 2.7k rating but 5 other comps got higher no glad, but if you make say 2k as a prot pala and theres only 4 other prot pala over 2k u get glad.

    ofc you'd have to lock in the spec when you join the team making you unable to play any other spec in arena.

    sounds crazy but its still better than seeing the glad breakdown as 25% warrior 2% monk...thats crazier imo, those tiny tiny handful of monks making glad are better than all those fotm warriors.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    easy way to fix that, 5 or 10 gladiator spots for every spec, so if you wanna roll the fotm comp and hit 2.7k rating but 5 other comps got higher no glad, but if you make say 2k as a prot pala and theres only 4 other prot pala over 2k u get glad.

    ofc you'd have to lock in the spec when you join the team making you unable to play any other spec in arena.

    sounds crazy but its still better than seeing the glad breakdown as 25% warrior 2% monk...thats crazier imo, those tiny tiny handful of monks making glad are better than all those fotm warriors.
    How would you choose what spec counts? Do you have to register your spec before the arena team is created? What's to stop people from registering one spec for "glad contention" then playing another? It's a cool idea and would create more interesting comps, but I doubt blizz wants to do the logistics. Also it would have to be % based still. Server and BG sizes vary quite a bit.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Varabently View Post
    How would you choose what spec counts? Do you have to register your spec before the arena team is created? What's to stop people from registering one spec for "glad contention" then playing another? It's a cool idea and would create more interesting comps, but I doubt blizz wants to do the logistics. Also it would have to be % based still. Server and BG sizes vary quite a bit.
    yeh just something like register as X spec, at the end of the game if everyone is not the spec they registered as then their mmr and rating does not change. although i realise this promotes win trading...1 team queues wins rating another while 1 cannot lose rating....fine make it so queueing as anything but registered spec lowers your rating by 50. there's always a way to fix cheaters....

    i know my idea is unlikely to ever happen but it's gotta be better than everyone jumping on the fotm comps and slaughtering anyone who does not play those comps as i think this is one of the biggest issues currently, warrior op check hunter op check....40% of glads = warrior & hunter, it should be 18%........bring the player not the spec.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Reavy View Post
    I think on the other hand that after 5.3 unranked bg's is where there should be no item lvl cap and let PVE players go crazy with their trinkets and legendary items...
    No thanks, i'd rather they only be viable in their dragon slaying. keep that away from my relaxing bgs.
    edit: just like i keep my pvp gear butt away from their pve.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    easy way to fix that, 5 or 10 gladiator spots for every spec, so if you wanna roll the fotm comp and hit 2.7k rating but 5 other comps got higher no glad, but if you make say 2k as a prot pala and theres only 4 other prot pala over 2k u get glad.

    ofc you'd have to lock in the spec when you join the team making you unable to play any other spec in arena.

    sounds crazy but its still better than seeing the glad breakdown as 25% warrior 2% monk...thats crazier imo, those tiny tiny handful of monks making glad are better than all those fotm warriors.
    I've heard similar ideas thrown around before, and I love the core of the idea but I don't really see how it would improve things. It's definitely cool that people could get rewarded for being good relative to their spec's power rather than the most effective specs, but imagine i.e. a prot paladin finishing with a r1 at 1800 rating while the mage and disc he played with all season get a rival and no title at all. Why would those guys want to gimp themselves by playing with a trash spec? This might make a general trend of trash specs playing with similarly trash specs, but we all know there would be people that manage to get real partners to carry them and they'd be the ones getting all the titles. Unless a 1v1 arena shows up, I'm not really sure there's any way to avoid relying on FotM partners (unless you only compare teams to a list of their mirror teams, but that seems like there would be far too many ladders to keep track of).

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