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  1. #1

    10m Amount of loot issue.

    So, I'm sure other 10 man guilds have felt the same way, but now there is proof.

    Look at the huge discrepancy between 10m and 25m loot. Average ilvl from 25m is much higher than average ilvl from 10m. It's a fact.

    This should be looked into, and I feel that I have a pretty simple solution.

    6 pieces of loot drop off a 25m boss. 2 drop off of a 10m. That is a 3:1 ratio, when the raid size is a 2.5:1

    This is easily fixed by any bosses that drop tier, still drop two other pieces of loot, and tier. Therefore, making 3 pieces of loot drop off of bosses that have tier in 10m.

    If you compare them, you can see it in this link

    http://www.wowprogress.com/guild_ilv...ting.tier15_10

    You may have to go to the individuals guilds to see comparisons between 10m and 25m, but still, the difference is clear, and there should be a solution to fix this.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    So the people who go through triple the effort and headache to organize larger raids get nothing at all to benefit them?

    As a 10m raider I still don't think its a good idea. They deserve a little extra loot.

    Trust me, the minuscule increase in gearing speed is nowhere near enough compensation for the monumental increase in organizational headaches.


  3. #3
    10m is tuned appropriately so you don't need the loot influx that 25m has.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by RavenGage View Post
    So the people who go through triple the effort and headache to organize larger raids get nothing at all to benefit them?

    As a 10m raider I still don't think its a good idea. They deserve a little extra loot.

    Trust me, the minuscule increase in gearing speed is nowhere near enough compensation for the monumental increase in organizational headaches.
    I've been a guild leader of a 10m and 25m raiding guild. The effort is not x3. Its maybe x1.2 just because you need to craft more flasks/pots
    I play many games. WoW, Rift, D3, PoE, SC2 I will not criticize your game choice if you don't mine.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RavenGage View Post
    So the people who go through triple the effort and headache to organize larger raids get nothing at all to benefit them?

    As a 10m raider I still don't think its a good idea. They deserve a little extra loot.
    Sure maybe for the 4 officers running the 25 it's a bit more difficult, but surely not for the 21 others... tank/melee/ranged/healing officers, yes, but it's a logistic issue, not a gear issue. Gear is just a lure to bring the loot whores to go in 25 man instead of 10, not saving 25 man AT ALL.
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  6. #6
    This "issue" is deliberate. If you want more loot, run 25 man. Be happy that you get the same ilvl loot in 10man.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekrosislol View Post
    I've been a guild leader of a 10m and 25m raiding guild. The effort is not x3. Its maybe x1.2 just because you need to craft more flasks/pots
    I've been a GM and raid leader for over 5 years, its definitely way harder. If not 3x then at least 2x harder.

    I'm not talking about the fights, I'm talking about the logistics of finding 25 competent players vs 10. Maybe its because I play on a low pop servers a lot, so that may vary your mileage but I've always found those last 5-6 spots in 25s to be super hard to fill properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    Sure maybe for the 4 officers running the 25 it's a bit more difficult, but surely not for the 21 others... tank/melee/ranged/healing officers, yes, but it's a logistic issue, not a gear issue. Gear is just a lure to bring the loot whores to go in 25 man instead of 10, not saving 25 man AT ALL.
    That's enough in my opinion.


  8. #8
    10 mans dont need more pieces of gear, just a way to disenchant less, since most of the time the % of usefull gear on 10 mans is just rock bottom, while 25mans keep it on a very decent lvl. Maybe increased % of coin on 10 man would solve it?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zavri View Post
    10m is tuned appropriately so you don't need the loot influx that 25m has.
    Tell that to paragon. Who had the same ilvl's as the 25 guilds and were still barely beating some of the checks that Method/BL were beating easy. like 5 of the fight this tier have higher checks on 10 than 25. Where as only like 3 fights have easier checks on 10 than 25. horridon (enrage timer only), Twins (prenerf now is joke on 25), and Ji-kun,
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    This "issue" is deliberate. If you want more loot, run 25 man. Be happy that you get the same ilvl loot in 10man.
    This is spot on. Blizzard has made a public and official point of providing 25-man raids with certain loot advantages over 10-man raids to account for the increased difficulty in organization and recruiting.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-01 at 07:43 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekrosislol View Post
    I've been a guild leader of a 10m and 25m raiding guild. The effort is not x3. Its maybe x1.2 just because you need to craft more flasks/pots
    Your pointing out flasks/pots as a reason shows that you have no idea why 25-mans are harder to arrange than 10-mans. Flasks are easy, recruiting is hard.

  11. #11
    Don't forget that 90% of those 25 guilds (the top 20 US guilds) ran few 25 runs to get extra gear aka playing the alt game.
    Also I still haven't seen a ranged weapon after 4 resets. RNG is RNG.
    Last edited by Ruffles; 2013-04-01 at 07:46 AM.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffles View Post
    Don't forget that 90% of those 25 guilds (the top 20 US guilds) ran few 25 runs to get extra gear aka playing the alt game.
    also 90% of the top 10 mans did the same thing

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Vapo's Avatar
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    If they just fixed 10man loot system to drop useful loot i wouldnt mind. Disenchating 50% of loot is not great from full clears just because it decided to drop mail spirit or str dodge/parry crap. Dont think we need more loot from bosses, we just need less wasted loot.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Your pointing out flasks/pots as a reason shows that you have no idea why 25-mans are harder to arrange than 10-mans. Flasks are easy, recruiting is hard.
    Recruiting wasnt a problem we had a 32 man roster. You just need to present your guild and make it attractive. Past achievements helped. (This was during tbc and we had kael and vashj down earlier then most). Also the server was alive. Its not hard to recruit if you make it so people come to you wanting in, not you searching every nook an cranny for them.
    I play many games. WoW, Rift, D3, PoE, SC2 I will not criticize your game choice if you don't mine.

  15. #15
    LFR have worse loot too. What's the problem?

    If you don't have nothing constructive to add. Don't post(by Sonnillon).
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-04-01 at 08:45 AM.

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire tidus4eva's Avatar
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    woah, hang on, so you are saying that a group with 2.5 times the amount of players of your 10 man group is getting MORE loot than the 10 man group? And that it's of a higher item level, even though it's deliberate that the larger group is supposed to be rewarded for putting in more people effort. Fancy that.

    I guess it would be nice if the bosses just dropped everything on their loot table so that you never had to kill each boss repeatedly each week. That would make much more sense?


    Who cares if 25 is getting more loot than 10, even if it's 0.5 more items? Does it ruin your fun? Why does it matter so much to a 10 man group that is doing their own progression?
    Last edited by tidus4eva; 2013-04-01 at 08:13 AM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by tidus4eva View Post
    woah, hang on, so you are saying that a group with 2.5 times the amount of players of your 10 man group is getting MORE loot than the 10 man group? And that it's of a higher item level, even though it's deliberate that the larger group is supposed to be rewarded for putting in more people effort. Fancy that.

    I guess it would be nice if the bosses just dropped everything on their loot table so that you never had to kill each boss repeatedly each week. That would make much more sense?


    Who cares if 25 is getting more loot than 10, even if it's 0.5 more items? Does it ruin your fun? Why does it matter so much to a 10 man group that is doing their own progression?
    I think its more of the fact that in 10man a lot of loot gets sharded /shrug.

    Sucks getting hunter every week without a hunter etc
    I play many games. WoW, Rift, D3, PoE, SC2 I will not criticize your game choice if you don't mine.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    also 90% of the top 10 mans did the same thing
    there are a crap load more 10 man guilds raiding vs. 25 man guilds. Going off of WoW Progress numbers, there are about 7500 10M guilds and about 900 25M guilds on US realms. That's going off the numbers for Jin'rokh kills, both 'difficulties' have about 95% of the reporting guilds killing Jin'rokh. Just going off kills it's about 7200 to 870.

    Frankly the 90% claim that you and the guy mentioning that 90% of the 25M guilds are running multiple raids with alts are majorly overstated.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by twopac187 View Post

    Frankly the 90% claim that you and the guy mentioning that 90% of the 25M guilds are running multiple raids with alts are majorly overstated.
    90% of those top 20 US guilds (or maybe all of them), not 90% of all US guilds.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by tidus4eva View Post
    woah, hang on, so you are saying that a group with 2.5 times the amount of players of your 10 man group is getting MORE loot than the 10 man group? And that it's of a higher item level, even though it's deliberate that the larger group is supposed to be rewarded for putting in more people effort. Fancy that.

    I guess it would be nice if the bosses just dropped everything on their loot table so that you never had to kill each boss repeatedly each week. That would make much more sense?


    Who cares if 25 is getting more loot than 10, even if it's 0.5 more items? Does it ruin your fun? Why does it matter so much to a 10 man group that is doing their own progression?
    It's not so much less loot, it's less loot per person which is and always has been hurting 10m. And yes it does ruin my fun when only 2 items drop and they both are Disenchanted especially after getting our first kill on a boss, it just completely deflates the boss kill. I honestly don't care at all about 25m loot as I will never do it as I find it boring and I prefer 10m in every way but don't think adding 1-2 extra drops will fix anything. 10m needs a way to reduce the amount of loot waste, I did like how in sunwell you could use sunmotes to trade certain items for other items (leather agility for leather int), that would be nice.

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