Thread: Iron Qon Normal

  1. #1

    Iron Qon Normal

    Hey guys, after some searching I do not see a thread specifically for Iron Qon normal. My guild just reached him last night and I was looking for some tips or tricks on the fight itself. Decided to throw out a thread here since I have gotten some good information for previous bosses from this specific subforum.

    I do have a specific question for the first fire dog phase. My guild is very melee heavy, with 3 of our 5 dps being melee. This is creating a lot of problems for the 1st phase with tons of accidental 3+ bursts going off due to them needing to adjust their spots to avoid the fire spear lines. Also, another thing I am having trouble coordinating with the group is when we should be stacking up to expend the 30 energy on the boss.

    I was calling out the 3 seperate groups to stack up when their debuff fell off, but that was not working fast enough, even with popping blood lust at the start. We were hitting 100 energy when the boss was at 30% health. Should we be getting several stacks of the debuff and pop healer cds for that phase? I'm not sure what exactly is expected here.

    Anyways, I would love any other advice for this boss particularly so other people can look on this thread in the coming weeks.

  2. #2
    My 10 man group isn't melee heavy, so I don't really have much advice for that. As for stack groups, we have 1 group get to 3 stacks then another group get to 3 stacks. When the stacks fell off the first group, they stacked back up for 3 stacks again and we just repeated this until the phase was over. Save your bloodlust until ~30% on Iron Qon himself.

  3. #3
    we used 3 groups and stacked to 2. bloodlust on pull and in last phase

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Falisa View Post
    Hey guys, after some searching I do not see a thread specifically for Iron Qon normal. My guild just reached him last night and I was looking for some tips or tricks on the fight itself. Decided to throw out a thread here since I have gotten some good information for previous bosses from this specific subforum.

    I do have a specific question for the first fire dog phase. My guild is very melee heavy, with 3 of our 5 dps being melee. This is creating a lot of problems for the 1st phase with tons of accidental 3+ bursts going off due to them needing to adjust their spots to avoid the fire spear lines. Also, another thing I am having trouble coordinating with the group is when we should be stacking up to expend the 30 energy on the boss.

    I was calling out the 3 seperate groups to stack up when their debuff fell off, but that was not working fast enough, even with popping blood lust at the start. We were hitting 100 energy when the boss was at 30% health. Should we be getting several stacks of the debuff and pop healer cds for that phase? I'm not sure what exactly is expected here.

    Anyways, I would love any other advice for this boss particularly so other people can look on this thread in the coming weeks.
    Have one of your ranged stand in melee and make 2 melee groups and one ranged group.
    Have the ranged group start the fight stacked so when he gets to 30 he selects that group.
    Take 2 fire bomb things each group, once your group has taken the 2 blasts spread out and have the next group ready repeat.
    Watch out for the spear and fire lines.
    If you are learning this fight just pop hero/lust on the pull so you can see the phase longer or get through it to learn the next phase.

  5. #5
    Have three groups of three rotate stacking constantly throughout the phase and there shouldn't be any problem with his energy hitting 100. Have a group call out once they hit 3 stacks of debuff, then the next group will stack up once it is called out. One of your melees is going to have to stand out for one of the groups since you only have 5 range/healers

    Lust right off the bat for the pull, and it should be up near the end of the last phase as well.

  6. #6
    We only have two groups ranged and melee+tanks. We usually take 3-5 stacks per group. Remember you don't have to keep taking the stack if the dog is close to death. Just don't let him reach 100 energy. Remember to dot the boss for some extra dmg on him after a dog dies.

    If you have 3 melee dps, position the tanks on top of each other and two melees on top of each other and one stands alone. Should be easy to produce in a triangle formation.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrod View Post
    Save your bloodlust until ~30% on Iron Qon himself.
    Why do you want to save BL for the last phase?
    We have BL at start and then 2nd one around 50% boss hp at nuke phase...
    You are making the fight harder for you with no need :P

    //edit: our today kill had 11:02, first kill 11:50, berserk is at 12:00 i think
    Last edited by Natic; 2013-04-02 at 12:11 AM. Reason: adding info

  8. #8
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    We only had 2 melee (pew) so it worked fine. Your melee and tanks will just have to pay alot of attention.

    BL/Hero at start, one grp instant stacking and doing 3 stacks (2dps, 1 healer).
    After 3 stacks they broke and next grp stacked (1dps, 2 healers).
    And then melee doing 3 stacks, at this point boss would be at 40%~ so we only needed to take 4 more nukes.
    Last 10-15% we wouldn't stack since it wouldn't reach 100%

    <3 warlock portal for 2nd stage, healers instant jumping out and others that get stunned can use it later =D

  9. #9
    we use 2 groups stacking to 3 on normal and 3 groups stacking to 2-3 depending on situation on heroic.

  10. #10
    25man normal here

    We've had melee heavy comps both times we've killed this. We had 3 soaking groups, melee going to 3 and 2 groups of ranged/healers going to 3. When it wasn't melee's turn to stack we had 2 groups of melee on each of the fire dogs back legs, far enough apart to not cause more stacks.
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  11. #11
    Pandaren Monk Radio's Avatar
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    Another method would be to use 2 soak groups:

    Group 1 - 2 Ranged and 3 Heals
    Group 2 - 3 Melee and 2 Tanks (can let 3 melee and 1 tank do instead if you'd prefer the stack to still be able to DPS from behind reliably)

    Soaking 4 stacks per group -should- be enough to let the stacks from the previous group drop off, the high numbers of players stacking should make the stacks easier to handle, though the 10 energy fire AoE dmg taken will be much higher, so your healers will have to push harder. With lust/hero you should be able to handle it.

    Otherwise, you'll just have to have a melee join the range group with 2.

    When melee group isn't stacking, you'll have to do a triangle formation around the boss with 2 tanks at the front, 2 melee at one leg and 1 melee at the other leg.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Natic View Post
    Why do you want to save BL for the last phase?
    We have BL at start and then 2nd one around 50% boss hp at nuke phase...
    You are making the fight harder for you with no need :P

    //edit: our today kill had 11:02, first kill 11:50, berserk is at 12:00 i think
    our kill times are around ~9:30 with 3 healers.
    our kill this week was just over 10 minutes with 1 early dps death (used bres) and then a dps and healer dead for more than half the fight
    tl;dr your kill times are really slow

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Falisa View Post
    I do have a specific question for the first fire dog phase. My guild is very melee heavy, with 3 of our 5 dps being melee. This is creating a lot of problems for the 1st phase with tons of accidental 3+ bursts going off due to them needing to adjust their spots to avoid the fire spear lines.
    I can't think of a perfect solution to this, it just sucks. There's bunch of things you can try but either way it'll be harder on you than with 2 melee.

    Also, another thing I am having trouble coordinating with the group is when we should be stacking up to expend the 30 energy on the boss.
    Group 1 - 4 people including tanks
    Group 2 - 3 people (2dps/1heal)
    Group 3 - 3 people (2dps/1heal or 1dps/2heal)

    Obviously one of your melee will have to run out to a ranged group. Alternately you can try the start with 2 groups of 5 but I have no experience with that.

    Group 1 starts stacked up and takes 3 AoEs (boss just does them as soon as they're available).
    Group 2 then stacks and takes 2 AoEs.
    Group 3 stacks next and takes 2 AoEs.

    Group 1's debuffs fall off at this point and they're ready to take 3 again and the rotations starts anew. There's no reason for groups 2 and 3 to take more than 2 stacks since they only have 3 people each. Group 1 has 4 including tanks so they can take 3 or even 4 stacks without issues.

    Alternatively you can also throw your extra melee into group 1 and have them go all the way to 4 stacks, and then group 2 will only take 1 stack but with 2 people. It will do a lot of dmg with only 2 people but provided they are classes with heavy CDs (ie: holy pally, lock) they'll be fine.
    Last edited by RavenGage; 2013-04-02 at 06:29 AM.


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RavenGage View Post
    I can't think of a perfect solution to this, it just sucks. There's bunch of things you can try but either way it'll be harder on you than with 2 melee.

    Group 1 - 4 people including tanks
    Group 2 - 3 people (2dps/1heal)
    Group 3 - 3 people (2dps/1heal or 1dps/2heal)

    Obviously one of your melee will have to run out to a ranged group. Alternately you can try the start with 2 groups of 5 but I have no experience with that.
    No, thats dumb. Have a ranged run into melee... a ranged can dps just fine in melee range where as your melee is basically worthless at range. It is also dumb to have a group of 4. There is no reason the entire raid need be included in this. You are having some one get hit and spend time running for no reason whatsoever. Yeah, I realize it splits, but there isn't any reason not to have a healer or ranged dps just stand there and do their job because there is no reason you need a 4 way split.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenGage View Post
    Group 1 starts stacked up and takes 3 AoEs (boss just does them as soon as they're available).
    Group 2 then stacks and takes 2 AoEs.
    Group 3 stacks next and takes 2 AoEs.

    Group 1's debuffs fall off at this point and they're ready to take 3 again and the rotations starts anew. There's no reason for groups 2 and 3 to take more than 2 stacks since they only have 3 people each. Group 1 has 4 including tanks so they can take 3 or even 4 stacks without issues.

    Alternatively you can also throw your extra melee into group 1 and have them go all the way to 4 stacks, and then group 2 will only take 1 stack but with 2 people. It will do a lot of dmg with only 2 people but provided they are classes with heavy CDs (ie: holy pally, lock) they'll be fine.
    Why would you take 3 or 4? 3 groups taking 2 will result in the 1st group's stack dropping before they are back up to soak. And I'm pretty sure the ability requires 3 people in 10m or 5 in 25m to trigger or he will just build up energy if you try to use a group of 2.

    The solution to the OPs problem is really simple. 2 melee groups, 1 ranged group, everyone takes 2 stacks, 1 person stands there and ignores that mechanic. You have 1 ranged run in on top of 2 melee for the 2nd group (first is 1 melee and 2 tanks). You have loads of space, that isn't an issue. I think it is a common misconception (at least it was in my guild until it was pointed out to people) that you want everyone spread out. You actually don't. If everyone is spread 10 yards in melee its a huge pain in the ass and its really easy for some minor movement to put 1 person within 10 yards of 2 people causing you to get shot. What you want to do is stack in groups of 2 (on 10m) so have the tanks stack, 2 melee stack, and the 3rd melee is alone in a triangle with melee at max melee range.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    No, thats dumb. Have a ranged run into melee... a ranged can dps just fine in melee range where as your melee is basically worthless at range. It is also dumb to have a group of 4. There is no reason the entire raid need be included in this. You are having some one get hit and spend time running for no reason whatsoever. Yeah, I realize it splits, but there isn't any reason not to have a healer or ranged dps just stand there and do their job because there is no reason you need a 4 way split.
    Because a 4 way split is far easier to heal than a 3 way split. Its not that hard of a concept to grasp if you think about it instead of just calling it dumb. The 4 man group is on the tanks and melee DPS tend to have powerful defensive cooldowns. Their 3rd stack will be easier to heal than a ranged group's 2nd stack. Since its easier to heal then why not take it?

    Why would you take 3 or 4? 3 groups taking 2 will result in the 1st group's stack dropping before they are back up to soak. And I'm pretty sure the ability requires 3 people in 10m or 5 in 25m to trigger or he will just build up energy if you try to use a group of 2.
    You're right about the group of 2 actually, that wouldn't work.

    The solution to the OPs problem is really simple. 2 melee groups, 1 ranged group, everyone takes 2 stacks, 1 person stands there and ignores that mechanic. You have 1 ranged run in on top of 2 melee for the 2nd group (first is 1 melee and 2 tanks). You have loads of space, that isn't an issue.
    Yes it is. The OP even SAYS it is in his original post. There's spears/lines and its an execution challenge. If you have the melee run out to ranged you lose out on DPS time but its easier to execute. Its a trade off between what's optimal in theory and what is doable with more ease (but loses DPS). Both will work.

    There's lots of ways you could do it and they all have trade-offs. What I listed is how we do it (with a 2 melee setup) and it gives us minimum amount of movement and maximum ease of taking stacks. With a 3 melee setup you'll have to sacrifice somewhere, whether its making the fight a little harder to execute or losing a little DPS.

    Also you are right about not needing to spread out, we have our ranged groups basically stacked (2 people on each other) and our 3rd person runs in and out accordingly. Since we only have 1 runner we pick classes who can do their job while moving (ie: hunter) so its quite easy. I actually should have remembered that when suggesting a 2 man stack group, I'll chalk that brain fart off to being tired atm.
    Last edited by RavenGage; 2013-04-02 at 06:38 AM.


  16. #16
    The easiest way to do this of what I've done is just to use 2 groups of 5, have each go up to 4-5 stacks.

    Why do this?
    Because most AoE heals are capped between 5 and 7 targets, making a 3 group soaking very inefficient to heal compared to a 5 person group.
    Overall the damage is slightly higher but heals are far more efficient than they would be otherwise, just make sure the soaking groups are in the same actual groups so your priests (if any) can actually heal.
    This also minimize the chance you fuck up, the way you start out the fight is just have the ranged stack up from the pull, take 4-5 stacks and they should be done just as the first spear is coming in, and if your DPS is very good, you don't have to get the ranged to stack again.

    Now some examples of the healing limitations -
    Prayer of Healing, only heals 1 group.
    Circle of Healing, only heals 5 people (6 with glyph)
    Light of Dawn, only heals 5 people (reduced to 3 with glyph?)
    Most AoE heals, effects start to reduce when there is more than 6 people in them.

    Not sure on the rest as I haven't played them all yet this expansion, but I know personally from doing it as a priest it's so helpful if I can heal with Prayer of Healing instead of Flash Heal and Binding Heal.
    Last edited by Kiea; 2013-04-02 at 06:48 AM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiea View Post
    Light of Dawn, only heals 5 people (reduced to 3 with glyph?)
    6 reduced to 4. Holy Radiance is reduced in effectiveness past 6. It also lets you use raid CDs like Barrier, Smoke Bomb and Spirit Link with more ease.

    Really 4-6 is the range of AoE heals which is great for this strat. It might actually be OP's best shot at making it work if they can manage their melee distances fine.


  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    We make 3 groups, melee often gets 3 stacks instead of only 2, but that's fine. The two ranged groups take 2 stacks each before it's back to melee taking stacks.

    We pull Heroism at the start, so usually, the second ranged group doesn't even need to get stacks for a second time before the next quilen becomes active.

    Our setup is 3 healers, 3 ranged, 3 melee, 1 tank (dwarf paladin <3).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    our kill times ......snip......
    tl;dr your kill times are really slow
    So? Kill is kill.

    My point was that if you manage to pass first dog then its pretty much kill, so its best to beat the first phase asap. Then, after you kill the first dog, you can more or less chill thru the rest of the fight and watching to not to get killed by some stupid mistake..and have second lust ready for burn phase...

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