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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by rewn View Post
    Why do boomkins need to glyph to be able to heal without switching forms? Shamans and paladins don't need to switch forms to heal, why should boomkins? Or better yet, since boomkins need to be in form to get their 10% DR, why do boomkins need to glyph to be able to heal themselves while maintaining their DR when others don't?

    It works both ways.
    If it weren't for that overpowered poly immunity, I'd say remove this limitation for boomies and allow it baseline.
    I think it would be hard to remove the limitation on all druid specs and abilities, since feral/guardian have so many abilities designed specifically for them, but Moonkins I think are more narrow in spec specific abilities, as they started out in vanilla only with moonfire and starfire, equally poor as ele. When the new form was introduced, it didn't add all that much new stuff either (or since then), so I assume moonies still being underdog in arenas even now, and mainly only good in pvp as aoe-bursters in bgs.
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  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    First off, just want to say congrats to all the shaman out there on the change.

    But..what i don't get is why is blizzard constantly contradicting it self:


    That was several months ago, pre 5.1 when hunters got all their shots castable on the move.
    So blizz wants movement to be terrible, but its ok to let locks, then hunters, and now Ele shaman (to a lesser extent granted), not be hampered by movement very much at all? Can blizz please make up its mind!

    I just think there there should be a little more consistency between ranged specs. Some can do 100% of their rotation while running, while others are majorly borked if they have to move barely at all. I'm not saying everyone should be equally good or bad at movement, but its like blizz is being Bi-polar with its design goals.

    Again, congrats shammies, I will enjoy the change on my alt as im sure our Ele will, but man blizz is giving me whiplash on this issue.
    Well if consistence is what they wanted then we wouldn't have mage's especially "Human" mage's breaking every cc and locking down most players in a single fight. This was a PvP change that really helps out shaman, even though I still think they are gonna have a tough time with melee especially rogue, but at least it gives us some idea as to if they are listening or not.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Viperk8b View Post
    Well if consistence is what they wanted then we wouldn't have mage's especially "Human" mage's breaking every cc and locking down most players in a single fight. This was a PvP change that really helps out shaman, even though I still think they are gonna have a tough time with melee especially rogue, but at least it gives us some idea as to if they are listening or not.
    idd im asking myself each day how its posible that one class can have so much CC and survivability cds while other can have almost none

  4. #164
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walled56 View Post
    Thank god blizzard finally listened to us
    love this buff!
    But if blizzard can make it benifit the other class like spriest,moonkin having 15% damage reduction,that would be perfect.
    10% still good, also you are likely to have Shamanistic Rage (30%) and Astral Shift (40%), which you can either use differently, or stack up (I think it is about 58% reduction with SR and AS stacked?), it is nice that you have that flexibility of use them together or use them seperately.

  5. #165
    Excellent change, but it would be better to be baseline and 15-20% because Elemental really does need passive damage reduction of those levels, would also free a mandatory glyph slot. Great that Blizzard are listening though, let's hope it makes it to 5.3 .

  6. #166
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    The stupid glyph should of never went into launch with MOP, this is part of the reason i stopped playing Shaman seriously I always felt the devs were years behind with changes to Shaman.

    It is nice to have some damage reduction now, better late than never?
    Last edited by Volitar; 2013-04-03 at 09:23 AM.

  7. #167
    Old God PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This is you misusing the term "mandatory", and misinterpreting my post.

    I was not saying it is not a good glyph, or even that it's not a strong contender for one of your three glyph slots. I was saying that you can choose to use something else, if situational issues arise. Ergo it's not "mandatory". The old duration-increasing Glyph of Flame Shock, on the other hand, you did always, always want in PvE. That's why it was considered "mandatory".
    Let me ask from a different angle. I think it's fair to assume that, for both PvE and PvP, 10% less damage taken is something that pretty much every spec is going to want.

    What situations can you think of where it'd be worth taking 10% more damage (since we're assuming using this new glyph is the "default" since it's so useful) in order to use a different glyph?

    Was this similar to the situation with the revamp of the Flame Shock glyph? Was that glyph considered required for Enhancement, or Restoration? Was it considered required for PvP?

    If that glyph wasn't effectively a requirement for all specs of shaman in at least one content type, why would it be made a baseline ability, and yet similar glyphs not be?
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  8. #168
    Ghostcrawler talked about this before. Basically, he defines mandatory glyphs as those that provide a DPS increase in all situations. So the devs likely decided to remove the cast penalty and it didn't make sense to keep that as a glyph anymore... So they dreamt up a new one. Lets just be happy that its something very good. We need the survivability, who cares where it comes from.

  9. #169
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Let me ask from a different angle. I think it's fair to assume that, for both PvE and PvP, 10% less damage taken is something that pretty much every spec is going to want.

    What situations can you think of where it'd be worth taking 10% more damage (since we're assuming using this new glyph is the "default" since it's so useful) in order to use a different glyph?

    Was this similar to the situation with the revamp of the Flame Shock glyph? Was that glyph considered required for Enhancement, or Restoration? Was it considered required for PvP?

    If that glyph wasn't effectively a requirement for all specs of shaman in at least one content type, why would it be made a baseline ability, and yet similar glyphs not be?
    Because every spec is expected to maximize their performance, in their role. That's the core root of theorycrafting and such. For healers, that means maximizing effective healing. For tanks, maximizing survival and threat. For DPS, well, DPS. For a DPS, if a glyph is a situational damage boost, it's optional, dependent on those situations. If a glyph is always a damage boost, though, it's mandatory. Because that's your job; to maximize your damage dealt.

    Survival and utility options are never mandatory, unless they're required to, again, maximize your DPS. For survival options, that only occurs if it's preventing your death.

    Reducing pressure on healers in raiding is always useful, but it isn't always needed, which is why the new glyph isn't "mandatory". It might be considered mandatory in PvP, but I'd suspect that given our other options, there will be some Shaman who, even there, choose differently.

    You can't just slap the label "mandatory" on the glyphs you usually take. That isn't what the term means. It means you have to take it to perform at the top of your role. That's not true of survival options for DPS, not unless they're letting you survive an unavoidable one-shot.
    Last edited by Endus; 2013-04-03 at 02:01 PM.

  10. #170
    About time

    They've surely balanced shaman dps around a LB cast time without the glyph, while it's not AMAZING, 5% on LB is something, and since everyone took the glyph for the much needed mobility, everyone have a slower casting LB than what Blizzard calculates with.

    If they did it the other way around, not taking the glyph would cause an unwanted dmg increase in situations where Shamans can play a turret style fight, I'm sure it caused them abit of a headache, and decided to drop it, at last.

  11. #171
    High Overlord Pol-Kinabol's Avatar
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    For all of you still not knowing it, they baked the old glyph in the spec, here's a link proving this: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...94055281020929
    Originally Posted by cutterx2202
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  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pol-Kinabol View Post
    For all of you still not knowing it, they baked the old glyph in the spec, here's a link proving this: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...94055281020929
    Yeah saw this and went heck yeah getting rid of that glyph and baking what it did into the class/spec and removing the cast time penalty is very nice.. But as he says anything can change before it goes live.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Yeah saw this and went heck yeah getting rid of that glyph and baking what it did into the class/spec and removing the cast time penalty is very nice.. But as he says anything can change before it goes live.
    would like it for enh/resto as well. Pretty disappointed that is only given to ele. We dont use it as much as ele but definitely has its use sometimes. Or at least dont remove the glyph so we have an option if needed.

  14. #174
    thank god for the damage reduction glyph, but im pretty sure i didnt even have lightning bolt on my ele shaman's bars anyway. buff lava burst, put it back on 12s CD and let me one shot people again plz
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  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by chronicline View Post
    but im pretty sure i didnt even have lightning bolt on my ele shaman's bars anyway.
    wat?! Surely you're joking...

  16. #176
    Maybe he liked standing around doing nothing for 6s!

  17. #177
    So many good pvp glyphs, so few glyphs slots.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Troopsmith View Post
    Maybe he liked standing around doing nothing for 6s!
    or maybe he has Elemental Blast, then kite or shock someone till Lava becomes available again. Yesterday I saw an Ele shaman x3 that wasn't using lightning bolt and was ok lol

  19. #179
    Dreadlord Rivyr's Avatar
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    To me, casting on the move should be a limited time only thing not a constant. The whole point of a caster class was to utalize CC and your blink/teleport circle abilits to preform your rotation. Same for a hunter.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivyr View Post
    To me, casting on the move should be a limited time only thing not a constant. The whole point of a caster class was to utalize CC and your blink/teleport circle abilits to preform your rotation. Same for a hunter.
    I like that walk while casting being a signature ability to Elemental, like totens once were (off GCD and bypass silence), since now totens are normal spells. It must take that away from hunters, lock, mage and anyone I forgot...

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