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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by seijo View Post
    I suppose it could be worse. They could give us a bubble chakra *shudders*

    If they do that, Im done with priest. LOL They ruined holy for me by adding chakras. Tried disc out after coming back and fell in love. Please don't ruin that too ><

  2. #222
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmlunsford View Post
    What would take its place if you couldn't atonement heal? How will we proc divine aegis? Why does everyone view it as a problem in the first place? Finally, why couldn't they just decrease damage of smite, holy fire and pennace by say 50%, and increase the healing done by atonement to 200% of the damage dealt?
    1.) Real healing. You know, what every other healer has to do. I imagine a small revamp to single target heals at most.

    2.) Crits still proc it. That wouldn't change. But, they could choose to find a new way to keep mastery relevant if that doesn't work.

    3.) First problem is it is too strong. Second problem is it is mindless and smart heals with no thought from the healer. Finally, it incentivizes too highly in 10 man. You can add 50-80k dps while keeping up with other healers. That's a problem because it overvalues disc.

    4.) That's an awful idea. Damage needs to stay high so damage contribution is decent and soloing is possible. I think it should be a flat 50% heals per damage for everyone just like it already is when atonement hits the priest.
    Last edited by ramennoodleking; 2013-04-18 at 09:32 PM.

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  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    1.) Real healing. You know, what every other healer has to do. I imagine a small revamp to single target heals at most.
    Yeah! Real healing! Like Healing Rain! And Holy Radiance! And HoT spam!

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarles Malarkey View Post
    Yeah! Real healing! Like Healing Rain! And Holy Radiance! And HoT spam!
    CoH! WG! PoH spam and DI'd PoMs!

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarles Malarkey View Post
    Yeah! Real healing! Like Healing Rain! And Holy Radiance! And HoT spam!
    Yes, anything but healing rain is honestly more interesting than atonement.

    Regarding the latest changes it's obviously a smaller nerf than the earlier suggested 20%. It also encourages us to (ever) use penance defensively, and gives us a bigger incentive to use other fillers than smite. Kinda like the changes really, just think that they aren't enough to change the fact that atonementing will be the best way to go most of the time (and admittedly I do think that our "real", esp. single target, heals should get some buffs if they decide to nerf atonement much further).
    Last edited by Cookie; 2013-04-18 at 11:21 PM.

  6. #226
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarles Malarkey View Post
    Yeah! Real healing! Like Healing Rain! And Holy Radiance! And HoT spam!
    You are comparing AoE heals to single target. The equivalent Holy Priest equivalent would be renew, PoM, GH, Flash Heal, Serenity. At least those require some thought as opposed to a mindless dps rotation.

    Good try though.

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  7. #227
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    It's really great to have more than 1 way to play a specc. There should be a choice wheter to use a FH or keep smiting. I like the idea that Penance do more healing when cast on a player, ofc, makes sense!

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    It's really great to have more than 1 way to play a specc. There should be a choice wheter to use a FH or keep smiting. I like the idea that Penance do more healing when cast on a player, ofc, makes sense!
    There's really never several ways to play a spec to it's maximum potential, but ideally two spells should be viable in two different situations, presenting you with the challenge of chosing the correct one each time. Right now there isn't really many situations where you have to chose, which is the problem with atonement being so strong.

  9. #229
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    There's really never several ways to play a spec to it's maximum potential, but ideally two spells should be viable in two different situations, presenting you with the challenge of chosing the correct one each time. Right now there isn't really many situations where you have to chose, which is the problem with atonement being so strong.
    Uhm, yeah... What is your point? To point out you can only do 1 thing and not the other to play perfectly? Well, you can choose to heal for a little and dps, or heal with a "real heal" and ofc then it should be bigger. There are really no right or wrong here, unless you are talking epeen HPS meters (and not even this is straight forward maths).

    As Holy I can choose between many heals for the same situations, wheter it is to help out on spot healing (ofc Chakra diminished this choice) or keep aoeing and in that case, what spells do I use (and can I afford it) etc. That should go for all healers and players. Makes it much more interesting and fun.

    I don't really get your point? Are you agreeing or disagreeing or...

  10. #230
    Assuming that I understand you correctly I'm pretty much in agreement:P. My point is basically that atonement is too strong and actual heals too weak for there to be an actual choice right now, while also noting that there generally always will be a "best spell" for any given situation (but chosing that one is what makes healing so interesting).

  11. #231
    The Patient Tenaru's Avatar
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    Discipline
    - Atonement now heals for 90% of the damage dealt, up from 80%.
    - Penance had a 10% damage and SP scaling reduction and 10% healing an SP scaling increase.
    - Glyph of Smite no longer allows for the additional damage to be transferred by Atonement.
    Booya. At least a step in the right direction with the dmg reduction. Couldn't actually find a post with any discussion bout the latest changes. I'd assume no other glyph still goes above smite most of the time? Unless it's something gimmicky like needing the MD one AND HF one during an encounter or w/e (on the assumption one still always has the Penance glyph as it's just very incredibly handy).

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenaru View Post
    Booya. At least a step in the right direction with the dmg reduction. Couldn't actually find a post with any discussion bout the latest changes. I'd assume no other glyph still goes above smite most of the time? Unless it's something gimmicky like needing the MD one AND HF one during an encounter or w/e (on the assumption one still always has the Penance glyph as it's just very incredibly handy).
    For 10 man I'll probably still roll with the smite glyph most of the time, for 25 man I might just use the extra slot to pretty much always keep binding heal glyphed, while still being able to use situationally nice glyphs like inner sanctum/fade/holy fire. I agree that the changes are good, but I think atonement still will end up scaling a bit better than our actual healing spells (which may warrant further nerfs in the next tier just to keep the relative value of atonement vs normal heals the same, which I already think is skewed too much in favor of atonement).
    Last edited by Cookie; 2013-04-19 at 10:42 AM.

  13. #233
    I am in the boat where I love the DPS/Healing class. Rift has a couple of them, and I just find it fun. It is a different type of healer, and IMO it is OK if it does both as good or close to as good as other people who only do one. I play with friends. We are not the worst players, but not the best. There is no sit him/her because another class is better. We just play to have fun. Ya know what games are for. To have fun. So if you are in a guild who sits you due to your class, find another guild, there are 1000s of them. I was very happy to see a DPS/Healer really become viable in WoW like other MMOs have already adopted. It didn't break the game in Rift. You still being other healers. I just find it funny to read the lack of inovation and "stuck in their ways" aproach so many in this thread are taking to Atone healing. It is like a bunch of old people yelling about that Rock and Roll music the new kids are playing. I would rather see the community embrace this hybrid. It is not OP, you don't see it winning the meters on every fight. Just look at world of logs and you see just about every healer having their day on different bosses. If you don't like it, fine, but don't try and say its mindless compared to other healing styles. If you are a old school healer, then all healing in MMOs just becomes 2nd nature. But I for one love that we have some new spins on healing and hope Disc and Monks are the future, and that Blizz sees this and looks on ways to improve them, not destroy them.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    1.) Real healing. You know, what every other healer has to do. I imagine a small revamp to single target heals at most.
    Not sure what exactly you mean by this unless you mean actual directed heals... which is fine by me. But then you need enough differentiation between Disc and Holy to justify a separate spec. I even tweeted ghostcrawler asking him to change Heal, Renew and Binding Heal for Disc since they're under utilized and would give us more options besides smite spam. He basically brushed it off in his response. Seems intent to just keep nerfing lol.

  15. #235
    For the third slot, I may drop the smite glyph since it no longer effects atonement. I'm not sure. I do enjoy having binding heal glyphed, or even the increased range would be better sometimes. Yay for finally getting to stand with ranged vs out in BFE by myself.

  16. #236
    Does nobody here even remember why the Glyph of Smite increases Damage/Healing by 20%?

    Before they added that glyph there was a period of time where Holy Fire was actually detrimental to cast, it was a net output loss.

    I'm not sure if that will be the case again once they nerf the glyph, but they're making it dangerously close, which would make for an even more mindless rotation -- just smite and penance. This is the complete wrong direction for them to nerf atonement in.
    Last edited by Lothrik; 2013-04-21 at 02:56 PM.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothrik View Post
    Does nobody here even remember why the Glyph of Smite increases Damage/Healing by 20%?

    Before they added that glyph there was a period of time where Holy Fire was actually detrimental to cast, it was a net output loss.

    I'm not sure if that will be the case again once they nerf the glyph, but they're making it dangerously close, which would make for an even more mindless rotation -- just smite and penance. This is the complete wrong direction for them to nerf atonement in.
    Holy fire is far more hps and hpm than smite atm (and most other spells) and will with the upcoming nerf to offensive penance be the best scaling spell in our entire arsenal (if I didn't screw up a number somewhere). The only time you don't want to cast holy fire/solace practically on cd is in extremely high aoe damage situations, and this will remain the same after the patch. Since the nerf to the smite glyph won't change our holy fire usage at all I wouldn't treat it as a nerf to that, it's simply a nerf to smite to encourage other fillers, which was needed (with holy fire up it's close to overtaking the hps of greater heal atm, while being more mana efficent, smart and quick).

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Holy fire is far more hps and hpm than smite atm (and most other spells) and will with the upcoming nerf to offensive penance be the best scaling spell in our entire arsenal (if I didn't screw up a number somewhere). The only time you don't want to cast holy fire/solace practically on cd is in extremely high aoe damage situations, and this will remain the same after the patch. Since the nerf to the smite glyph won't change our holy fire usage at all I wouldn't treat it as a nerf to that, it's simply a nerf to smite to encourage other fillers, which was needed (with holy fire up it's close to overtaking the hps of greater heal atm, while being more mana efficent, smart and quick).
    >smite with holy fire overtaking the hps of greater heal

    They buffed the range on Atonement from 15 yards to 40 yards in 5.1. They buffed Penance damage and healing by 20% and reduced the cooldown to 9s in 5.2. They completely removed critical heals in 5.2 with no compensation (yeah, they "buffed" DA to 100%.. which changed literally nothing, you went from 2.0*0.5 to 1.0*1.0). The crit nerf completely gutted our ability to scale up with damage, and yet people praised it like it was a good thing "WHOO LESS OVERHEALING!!"

    The past two major patches have essentially been "nerf heals, buff atonement" and now they're wondering why Priests are using Atonement so much.
    Last edited by Lothrik; 2013-04-21 at 03:34 PM.

  19. #239
    The past two major patches have essentially been "nerf heals, buff atonement" and now they're wondering why Priests are using Atonement so much.
    I've been whining about this for months now but apparently blizzard really likes to have us use atonement, a lot, despite that taking absolutely no skill or effort at all (basically turns us into a 3 button dps class, yay vanilla nostalgia!). I guess it does make it a bit easier to balance a spec if the difference between the skill floor and the skill ceiling is ~20%, but apparently they can't even manage that right now:P.

    Worth noting that the nerf (yes, it was obviously a nerf) to our crits didn't really favor atonement over our other heals though (and I honestly think that was a solid change, the difference between a crit and non-crit was imo too high for disc). However the removal of guaranteed DA on PoH, the mastery changes, the SS change and the other things you mentioned most certainly did.
    Last edited by Cookie; 2013-04-21 at 04:01 PM.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothrik View Post
    >smite with holy fire overtaking the hps of greater heal
    The past two major patches have essentially been "nerf heals, buff atonement" and now they're wondering why Priests are using Atonement so much.
    amen.

    Worth noting that the nerf (yes, it was obviously a nerf) to our crits didn't really favor atonement over our other heals though (and I honestly think that was a solid change, the difference between a crit and non-crit was imo too high for disc). However the removal of guaranteed DA on PoH, the mastery changes, the SS change and the other things you mentioned most certainly did.
    They fucked it up when they made aegis 50%, that was the most ridiculous change ever.
    Frankly, I think they mostly derped in beta with spirit shell. Last thing we needed was to get back to the anti-absorbs wotlk fury. The healing community was just starting to forgive us.

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