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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by xXzCoDProxXz View Post
    Why cant i trade my now useless shadowmeld for ,say arcane torrent?Its practically useless in pvp, wereas torrent is another silence/rage generator
    You think shadowmeld is useless because it's no longer possible to do cheesy shit like aimed shots and OOC charges (back in the day)? Jesus. Shadowmeld is one of the best racials in the game.

    And if all you care about is PVP then hello EMFH...

    Honestly they really should either remove racials or radically redesign them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  2. #22
    Immortal apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Sorry but no true. There is a reason the vast majority of progress guilds are playing Horde nowadays. Some racials are way, way to strong to pass up on.

    And some people seem to still live in Wotlk. Shadow meld does not drop combat or interrupt casts anymore in rated PvP. It does that in World PvP and random BG's but there it really doesn't matter.
    Yes but some of the racials are hard to depict. Like people do not pay attention to the avoidablitiy that ne have. Shadowmeld is not bad if you are a rogue or druid.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by matthias9742 View Post
    It is funny though that you use that site as an example of why humans rock when right next to that horde have more 2200+ than alliance.
    You seriously think that's because of racials? When 31% of all ranked PVPers are human? Clearly what is happening is that a huge proportion of PVP players choose human because they believe the racial is OP, but when the rubber meets the road there are much bigger factors at play than your racial so the balance does not wind up favouring Alliance.

    I think what that site REALLY illustrates is how obsessively a lot of players chase things that they believe are OP, even though its overall impact is minimal.

    Don't get me wrong, racials aren't balanced and EMFH is too compelling for PVP, but in the long list of things that determine who wins in a PVP match your racial is number 500.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  4. #24
    The only reason the Alliance racials suck so much now is that the developers decided that they should be equivalent to the Horde racials.
    when all else fails, read the STICKIES.

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire Edx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthias9742 View Post
    It is funny though that you use that site as an example of why humans rock when right next to that horde have more 2200+ than alliance.
    Yeah, the faction representations at 2.2k+ differ +- 2% from their global %'s, HUGE imbalance.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    You seriously think that's because of racials? When 31% of all ranked PVPers are human? Clearly what is happening is that a huge proportion of PVP players choose human because they believe the racial is OP, but when the rubber meets the road there are much bigger factors at play than your racial so the balance does not wind up favouring Alliance.

    I think what that site REALLY illustrates is how obsessively a lot of players chase things that they believe are OP, even though its overall impact is minimal.

    Don't get me wrong, racials aren't balanced and EMFH is too compelling for PVP, but in the long list of things that determine who wins in a PVP match your racial is number 500.
    You seemed to have misread what I posted. I found it funny he thought that humans (and therefore) alliance were the best at PvP because of racials, when the reality is that the racial doesn't seem to have any bearing on Horde vs. Alliance numbers given that the overall numbers right next to his example shows that horde is the dominant faction on high level PvP.

    Personally I wish they would just make racials a list of things you could pick from when you created your character. Change some of the names to make them more race neutral and then make it so we can choose 1 major (on use) and 2 minors (passive).
    So some examples if I wanted to make a tank I could choose Stoneform, 2% dodge, and 5% base HP increase. On my farmer I could do fast herbing, fast skinning, and Shadowmeld. On my DPS I could Take berserking, Pet damage, and beast-slaying if I wanted.

  7. #27
    Shadowmeld is not useless, especially if you are a Priest or Mage.

    To switch positions go with spectral guise into shadowmeld or invisibility into shadowmeld.

  8. #28
    I am Murloc! Korgoth's Avatar
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    I'd trade you human racial for orc.
    You, you'll regret what you have done this day, I will make you regret ever being born, you're going to wish you never left your mother's womb, where it was warm and safe and wet, I am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you're going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainbow!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ep65rr-9qjQ Full Pilot Episode! Best thing to come out of Adult Swim!

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    It is not the race that sucks, it is the person that uses it.
    Is that why the top 8/10 3s teams are 2 or 3 undead?

    Probably coincidence. Those top players don't know what they are doing, after all...

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Is that why the top 8/10 3s teams are 2 or 3 undead?

    Probably coincidence. Those top players don't know what they are doing, after all...
    Look at the Shamans, about every single last top rated one is an Orc and that's for a reason. People saying racials don't matter are either lying or oblivious.

  11. #31
    Dreadlord Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    how about NOT nerfing horde racials because they're good, but instead BUFF every ally racial (except humans ofc) so they're on par with horde racials?

    /logicishard
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiebob
    I'm still waiting on someone to tell me where all these people that suddenly care about Warrior balance were during Cataclysm when they were blow up dolls with plate armor on.
    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    Stop complaining to solve your lack of ability, and start reading and practicing to gain ability. Stop trying to bring people down to your level instead of striving to raise yours.

  12. #32
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    Anybody who lets a racial effect their performance, holds no weight in my opinion. I've played with shit racials for 8 years, and yet I still wreck in PVP.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Sorry but no true. There is a reason the vast majority of progress guilds are playing Horde nowadays. Some racials are way, way to strong to pass up on.
    This, really, again and again we have considered going horde, because their racials are crazy in comparison to the crap alliance gets.

    As with a lot in this old game, there's stuff that's outdated and not of this day and age, that have never been updated or only half-assedly updated, and you get this.

    Pvp wise, every racial has its use, but you're smoking stuff to be able to claim alliance has comparable or better racials overall. I agree the human racial is stupid and needs to go, but the same can be said for orc and troll ones.

    As for those saying "its who plays the character, not the racials that count": Imagine an excellent player with a toon with a shit racial. He'll be good. Now imagine him with good racials. He'll be better. It's not an argument to defend the state of racials.

  14. #34
    for pvp id much rather roll a human than any horde any day
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
    Best Mage EVAR!


  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevarin View Post
    for pvp id much rather roll a human than any horde any day
    that's because you fail at math.

  16. #36
    The only way to ever truly end the argument is to water them down like the rest of the game has been. Just mirror every racial to it's horde/alliance counterpart. All would be equal and all can go on to bitching about something else. I don't really see the big deal in this since most classes now have 300 forms of cc.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisxor View Post
    [Gift of the Naaru] : Heals the target for 20% of their total health over 15 sec. 3 minute cooldown.
    base health
    [Heroic Presence] : Increases chance to hit with all spells and attacks by 1%
    sure in pve
    [Darkflight] : Activates your true form, increasing movement speed by 40% for 10 sec. 3 minute cooldown.
    [Viciousness] : Increases critical strike chance by 1%.
    pvp useless, pve sure it is a minor dps increase / yes 1% crit is nice, much better than 1% hit(difference in rating to get that 1%)
    [Mace Specialization] : Increases expertise with maces and two-handed maces by 3.
    [Sword Specialization] : Increases expertise with swords and two-handed swords by 3.
    i think those are down to 1% as well, puts it with hit rating, worth half as much as pandarian racial even, but talking about pvp anyway
    [Every Man for Himself] : Removes all movement impairing effects and all effects which cause loss of control of your character. This effect shares a cooldown with other similar effects, 2 minute cooldown.
    the single most op pvp racial, however in pve boss stuns will usually not work with trinkets, archimonde was the last boss this was effective on but wotf worked just as well. /fear
    [Shortblade Specialization] : Expertise with Daggers and One-Handed Swords increased by 3
    [Escape Artist] : Escape the effects of any immobilization or movement speed reduction effect. Instant cast. 1.45 min cooldown.
    decent pvp utility but a lot of classes can talent this, and compared to blanket silences / stuns / burst beserking...yeah not worth much at all
    [Stoneform] : Activate to remove poison, disease, and bleed effects; +10% Armor; Lasts 8 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.
    this clears debuffs and no longer makes you immune....kind of worthless now, rogue poisons don't even stack and 1 hit from that war will get rend and deep wounds back up.
    [Gun Specialization] : increases chance to critically hit with Guns by 1%.
    this is specific to ONLY hunters who's bis that tier is a gun...more than useless
    [Mace Specialization] : Increases expertise with maces and two-handed maces by 3.
    same as other expertise's
    yea.... the alliance racials really suck.....
    i'll quote you on that part.
    other than worgen crit and every man for himself, yes they do suck (in pvp) compared to burst / blanket silences and stuns, and pet dmg increase
    and in pve, they mostly suck compared to the burst provided by horde racials (as well as the expertise / inc pet damage / etc they get)

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-01 at 11:23 PM ----------




    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    You seriously think that's because of racials? When 31% of all ranked PVPers are human? Clearly what is happening is that a huge proportion of PVP players choose human because they believe the racial is OP, but when the rubber meets the road there are much bigger factors at play than your racial so the balance does not wind up favouring Alliance.

    I think what that site REALLY illustrates is how obsessively a lot of players chase things that they believe are OP, even though its overall impact is minimal.

    Don't get me wrong, racials aren't balanced and EMFH is too compelling for PVP, but in the long list of things that determine who wins in a PVP match your racial is number 500.
    or it could be a lot of people went human for pvp when pvp power wasn't around and cbf paying blizzard to switch again, since it is a reliable choice still, just not op anymore.

    forgot to mention with how powerfull pvp power is, chances are you'd be using 2 pvp trinkets, human racial does help a bit here since you can get the battlemasters +health
    but in the end there's only 3 to choose from, and battlemasters is kind of weak compared
    Last edited by Christan; 2013-04-02 at 04:26 AM.
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  18. #38
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Alright guys, have this be a warning for everyone, but keep it civil please.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Sorry but no true. There is a reason the vast majority of progress guilds are playing Horde nowadays. Some racials are way, way to strong to pass up on.

    And some people seem to still live in Wotlk. Shadow meld does not drop combat or interrupt casts anymore in rated PvP. It does that in World PvP and random BG's but there it really doesn't matter.


    Lies. There is a reason nearly all high rated Shamans on Horde are orc. 1 second less deep freeze for example is a gigantic thing to have.
    i'm sorry but what he ment was true. yes racials can give you a win. but its not that if your a lets say dreanie that you can't win from lets say a human because he got 2 dps trinkets and you don't. sure if it was a close call and you had 1 hp left. but not acepting a race because his racials suck is plain stupid.

  20. #40
    Mechagnome ipoststuff's Avatar
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