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  1. #21
    Hmm iirc macro'd BT still beats RE for dw frost.
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  2. #22
    It's said that RC may increases the proc of rppm trinkets, right?

  3. #23
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Hmm iirc macro'd BT still beats RE for dw frost.
    dw is the important bit, if you spam it anyway, it's almost as good macro'd as it'd be manually

    2h frost is a whole different story as BT can be used to get that KM oblit

    Quote Originally Posted by kallaesia View Post
    It's said that RC may increases the proc of rppm trinkets, right?
    It doesn't. RC is Rune Recharge, not Haste

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post

    It doesn't. RC is Rune Recharge, not Haste
    But I notices some combatlogs that the proc of rppm trinkets increases more frequently when choosing RC,especially in AsiaWOW.
    Maybe someone can have a try to confirm it?

  5. #25
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kallaesia View Post
    But I notices some combatlogs that the proc of rppm trinkets increases more frequently when choosing RC,especially in AsiaWOW.
    Maybe someone can have a try to confirm it?
    "some combat logs" as in using a script to parse 500 combat logs or "some combat logs" as in looking at 2 or 3 combat logs?

    While it's not a sufficient sample size I just started testing the procs in an isolated environment. 30m of hitting a dummy using RC and hitting a dummy using BT did not show a significant difference in procs per minute. (naked DKs, both draenai, both frost 2h, hitting the lvl 60 dummy with feather equipped in unholy presence, keyboard macro set to a rotation using all the runes and RP) Will see what it looks like in a few hours to check if there's a significant difference in number of strikes and procs.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Blade and Soul View Post
    Hi there,

    I wanted to add my personal perspective as playing Blood.

    I have been using RE since Mists was released. Recently I changed to RC and things seem to feel "smoother" than when I was using RE. I don't really seem to notice a decrease in the amount of Death Strikes I am able to do, but the main thing I notice is that the simple "flow" of abilities is a lot more fluid. I am really enjoying RC and will be using it for now.

    I have tried using Blood Tap and found that I really didn't care for it. Yes, it gives you the best control over handling your runes, but I simply didn't like the feel for it.

    I think it really boils down to which one complements your play style the best.
    I think the most fluid of them all is probably Runic Corruption. I've been playing with Blood Tap of late after I was given the above Macro and I am liking it too. However, since I rarely like gaming runes and paying much attention to them most of the times, I find Runic Empowerment to have too much RNG.

    Like someone mentioned, if Runic Corruption was buffed just a little bit it would be a lot better, but currently it has a very low time on run generation. I like the idea of having it stacked which would add even more fluidity to the class. The thing with RC currently is that, if you happen to hit Frost Strike or Death Coil back to back, and you are lucky enough to proc RC back to back, its like you've wasted the first proc. Or even if they up the current time on 100% run generation to like 5 secs instead of 3 secs, that would help a bit too. But at its current state its fluid but not very efficient.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 11:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Primate View Post
    I had an idea to attempt to make RC more appealing (with PvP in mind but may work in PvE) and I may as well bounce it off the DK community.

    Current RC: When you land a damaging Death Coil, Frost Strike, or Rune Strike, you have a 45% chance to activate Runic Corruption, increasing your rune regeneration rate by 100% for 3 sec.

    Suggested RC: When you land a damaging Death Coil, Frost Strike, or Rune Strike, you have a 100% chance to activate Runic Corruption, increasing your rune regeneration rate by 50% for 3 sec, stacking up to 5 times.

    Reasoning behind this is that currently for Frost PvP, in order to keep rune turnover high (With RE+BT) and keep using Rune abilites, you need a relativity decent up-time on the target in order to land several (4+) Frost Strikes, or use Death Coil from distance if you're being kited. This can make Frost PVP frustrating.

    With this change to RC, even landing 1-2 Frost Strikes will provide a noticeable increase in Rune regeneration (100%); and if you manage 4+, you're looking at 200-250% rate of regen for 3secs, meaning if you get kited or CCed, you've got runes ready to retaliate when you're mobile again.

    Numbers may need tweaking, but in general, I think this may prove to make RC comparable to RE.

    Thoughts?
    I very much love this idea and approve it. I always wondered why RC didn't stack since getting a RC proc back to back completely negates the first one even if there was time left on it.

    Of all the 3 talents, I find RC to have the most fluid playstyle. Its predictable for the most part and I enjoyed playing Unholy while using RC to level up via dungeons.

    I know a lot of people loved RE as Frost in the past, but I've always hated the randomness to hit for the most part. With an old computer and on low settings you often see the procs a second too late.

    I am actually liking Blood Tab right now with the macro. It feels as fluid as RC without me actually having to manage and focus on the charges.

    But I would seriously consider the change. A stacking buff on Runic Corruption make it a more appealing talent PVE and PVP wise.

  7. #27
    You're gonna have to explain to me why you think Runic Corruption should stack how powerful it is, rather than stacking its duration like it currently does.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiqjaq View Post
    You're gonna have to explain to me why you think Runic Corruption should stack how powerful it is, rather than stacking its duration like it currently does.
    I don't really fully understand your question but If I think I know what you are referring to, this would be my reasoning.

    If it stacks over its current duration, you will have DKs in top guilds choosing this talent specifically over the other 2 and trying to "game" it. With RNG on their side, you can have a 100% uptime on this ability or close to it making Death Knights really OP.

    With what he has suggested, is that the "buff" stacks 3 stacks for a duration of 3 secs. This way you ain't overwriting the first application when you get procs back to back cause currently with this talent, you are negating the first proc.
    Last edited by Ebonheart; 2013-04-03 at 12:51 PM.

  9. #29
    I think you're misunderstanding how RC works. Every time you use your proccing ability it has a chance to proc RC, if you already have RC active then you just get the duration of the new proc added to the currently active one. If you're *insanely* lucky then you can get up to 6 secs or so of the buff (best i've personally managed) but with any more you just can't burn through runes fast enough so there's no benefit to that.

    As for making it stack speed of rune regen it would have an even worse effect on capping resources as if it were regenning your runes 3x faster than normal you would be almost instantly capped even if all your runes were depleted.

  10. #30
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    "some combat logs" as in using a script to parse 500 combat logs or "some combat logs" as in looking at 2 or 3 combat logs?

    While it's not a sufficient sample size I just started testing the procs in an isolated environment. 30m of hitting a dummy using RC and hitting a dummy using BT did not show a significant difference in procs per minute. (naked DKs, both draenai, both frost 2h, hitting the lvl 60 dummy with feather equipped in unholy presence, keyboard macro set to a rotation using all the runes and RP) Will see what it looks like in a few hours to check if there's a significant difference in number of strikes and procs.
    Short answer: no
    Long answer: there's some irregularities but nothing that indicates an increase in RPPM after having done 7 sets of 30 minutes hitting the dummy each.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    Short answer: no
    Long answer: there's some irregularities but nothing that indicates an increase in RPPM after having done 7 sets of 30 minutes hitting the dummy each.
    Yep,I just see someone post 3 sets of 30 million damage hitting the dummy each.
    Frost_2H_RE
    Unholy_RC
    Frost_2H_RC
    It's clear that the pros of Spark of Zandalar perform better in RC.So I guess RC may be essentially a haste increasing.OR It's only a bug.

    p.s. Excuse my English,I may not describe it very well.But I believe you could know what i mean.

  12. #32
    RC duration scales inversely with haste so it should not be better than the other two choices due to haste, either on gear or from a trinket buff.

  13. #33
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kallaesia View Post
    Yep,I just see someone post 3 sets of 30 million damage hitting the dummy each.
    [snip pictures because of size]
    It's clear that the pros of Spark of Zandalar perform better in RC.So I guess RC may be essentially a haste increasing.OR It's only a bug.

    p.s. Excuse my English,I may not describe it very well.But I believe you could know what i mean.
    What exactly am I looking at when I see those screenshots? Is it the uptime of the buffs? If so that's not really any indication of RPPM...
    The proc of Spark of Zandalar does not lengthen the buff duration but overrides it.

    Think about it like this:
    10s first proc (20s) duration
    20s second proc (20s) duration
    60s fight ends
    Uptime = 10-20s for proc 1 and 20-40s for proc 2 = 30s in total = 50% uptime

    10s first proc
    30s second proc
    60s fight ends = 10-20s for proc 1 and 30-50s for proc 2 = 40s in total = 66% uptime

    In both examples we would have 2 procs per second, but the uptime is vastly different.

    If you want to check if there are more procs, you don't look at uptime, but at number of procs.


    Also if we just compare your pictures, RC for frost 2h seems to hurt the uptime of the Fallen Crusader weapon enchant by a lot.
    What you are seeing on the 3 screenshots is not a bug, it's just "bad luck". If you'd repeat that test 20 times, you'd get 20 times different results.
    (repeat it a 1000 times and calculate the average and you've got something of a proof)

  14. #34
    High Overlord Mr.Pineapple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    Blood Tap > Rune Tetris > Runic Corruption > Runic Empowerment

    If you are not good at managing blood tap, gaming RE is the next best thing.
    If you are not good at gaming RE, Runic Corruption is better.
    But if you just mindlessly mash your buttons, Runic Corruption wins over Runic Empowerment.

    RE did not change since WotLK, RC was changed to counter haste scaling, BT got reworked (almost) completely

    1 BT use = 1 full death rune
    1 RE proc = 1 full "random" rune
    1 RC proc = 100% increase for 3/10s of rune regeneration (both shortened by haste) in other words "30% of all 3 runes regenerated"

    Properly playing RE is in my opinion harder than managing BT.

    Purely DpS wise, good RE is almost on the level of good BT and RC lacks behind.
    i agree with *most* of the math but what the hell is rune tetris...lol

    haste does make RC better (but also the other ones too)
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Pineapple View Post
    i agree with *most* of the math but what the hell is rune tetris...lol
    It's trying to fit the bricks in the open spaces to make sure the rows are always full. /sarcasm off
    Basically it means trying to get the best out of RE by making sure it procs the runes you need (and you do so by only using RS with both F or U on cooldown with at least 1 B off cd).

    Btw. Imo rune tetris with RE is still worse than RC unless you're in a situation where DS timing doesn't matter since it requires less attention and tends to be less "spiky"
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  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans Asrialol's Avatar
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    Question regarding Runic Corruption. Noticed that when it lasts around 2 seconds when it procs. When it procs again while the buff is still up, the duration jumped to 6 seconds. I've managed to get 10 seconds of RC and kept it up for quite a bit. Is this RNG luck or did something change recently, because I can't remember making the duration so long in the past few weeks.

  17. #37
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Question regarding Runic Corruption. Noticed that when it lasts around 2 seconds when it procs. When it procs again while the buff is still up, the duration jumped to 6 seconds. I've managed to get 10 seconds of RC and kept it up for quite a bit. Is this RNG luck or did something change recently, because I can't remember making the duration so long in the past few weeks.
    RNG
    It happens sometimes. Rarely, but possible.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    RNG
    It happens sometimes. Rarely, but possible.
    Not as rare as you may be getting, I seem to get it quite regularly during BL.

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