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  1. #1

    Where's my carrot on a stick?

    Currently I don't really feel like playing anything rated PvP wise at all as there's simply no point to it. There is no new gear for me to obtain, I've got the T2 of last season and every piece is 391 so all I gain is two phenomenal ilevels with the new gear till 5.3. I've got pretty much every RBG achievment aside from 300 victories and HotH.

    Well there's still 3's, just that it doesn't offer any desirable rewards either and I currently lack a decent frostmage for that. So all I'm left with is sitting there looking at rated PvP and ask myself "Why bother"?

    The only enjoyable PvP left to me right now is random battlegrounds, as sad as that is. It's easy fun on the side without the risk of "losing" anything or being forced to search for hours upon hours for a decent RBG group with high enough ratings.



    PvE people get new achievments, new transmog stuff, new pets, mounts and other vanity stuff thrown at them alongside new vastly superior gear. What exactly do we get? What is our incentive to actually go through all of the effort of finding decent Arena/RBG partners when there is simply no reward whatsoever for doing so? Fun alone simply isn't going to cut it, especially not when random battlegrounds are more accessible, easier, faster and without the risk of actually losing any rating?

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    In my experience there are very few people who enjoy RBGs, and that seems to be what you've focused on. You sarcastically mentioned mages are necessary for 3v3, so I'm guessing you haven't really done arena seriously or at a high rating. I can only recommend that you give arena a try, since that's what most people actually PvP for. It's a lot more balanced than the community's offhanded complaints would have you believe, and it has a realtime strategy element to it that's really unlike any other form of PvP in this game (not to downtalk RBGs, but they're more about team positioning than combat unless there's a huge skill difference).

    The obvious rewards are the titles--RBGs kind of suck for that because there's only one sort of glad-equivalent title. If you don't play with one of the best groups or wintrade, you just have your high warlord/grand marshall and war wolf/horse like everyone else. Arenas reward graduated (and non-permanent) titles, so even if you're playing at low levels you have something to shoot for. They're trying to add in more rewards too, so you may find something worthwhile will surface in time. More importantly, most people who do arena actually find the gameplay fun (to some degree). It seems like the titles/gear are just a way to get people started, but the actual game is why they keep playing.

    If all that fails, maybe just run random BGs. Your entire post seems to suggest that the only possible purpose of competitive play is tangible reward items and that the simplicity of a random BG is where the real fun is. I actually don't know a single person that finds BGs entertaining. At some point playing with and against undergeared keyboard-turners gets tiresome. If you can find enjoyment in it maybe that's a gift that you should take advantage of.

  3. #3
    Wpvp. Gank alts then kill their mains stir shit up and next thing you know an army of alliance is after you xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  4. #4
    Push rating for HotH and/or Glad? Or not...you mentioned you like the relaxed environment of random non-rated BGs since you can just go in there with little to no pressure to win. Not saying you aren't trying to win, mind you.

    On the pve/pvp thing, there's boatloads of items that can be farmed for transmog (lot of it is from old raids, yes, but so much of that stuff is soloable that it's not funny), and with all the gear fiddling going on with 5.3 PTR and such, pve gear will not exceed pvp gear for pvp.

    Honestly, my favorite time of any pvp season is once all the gear settles in and everyone's pretty much decked out. Once that nonsense is out of the way, the real fun can begin, IMO.

  5. #5
    You can also play the game because you like to play it, instead of just for the reward.

    Or do you expect a reward for every fun thing you do in life?

  6. #6
    disappointed. I thought this was about the trinket

  7. #7
    Pandaren Monk vep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Fun alone simply isn't going to cut it, especially not when random battlegrounds are more accessible, easier, faster and without the risk of actually losing any rating?

    You need to quit playing this game. The quoted sentence explains why. If you don't play for fun you shouldn't be playing at all.

    Also, your "Carrot on a stick" was removed from the game a while ago :/

  8. #8
    Brewmaster Grievuuz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenniZ View Post
    You can also play the game because you like to play it, instead of just for the reward.

    Or do you expect a reward for every fun thing you do in life?
    Did you just insinuate that a game, played solely for the fun of playing, is comparable to LIFE?

    And I concur - competitive PvP should have it's own rewards besides the fun of playing it -- take away the gear obtained through raiding and I doubt very many people would remain in that scene either.
    Last edited by Grievuuz; 2013-04-02 at 04:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laraven View Post
    Umm, skinny guys with abs are like a fat girl with big boobs. It don't really count.
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  9. #9
    I definitely think Blizzard might be shooting themselves in the foot with the recent PvP gear changes and the ones being introduced in 5.3.

    With elite gear back to having a rating requirement of 2200 it will be out of reach for most people who participate in PvP. There are many reasons for that, being it skill, time constraints, difficulty finding partners, social anxiety or other impediments preventing them from communicating properly in game, playing a weak/unwanted spec etc. Without any realistic goals to aim for these people will just get their 1800 points each week to get gear they can bg with. I think this lack of incentive (or "carrots on a stick" if you will) is one of the main reasons, if not the main reason, why arena participation has declined significantly.

    The elite gear might also feel less appealing to many when it goes back to being purely a cosmetic upgrade. I think Blizzard overestimate the appeal of vanity items, especially recoloring of old sets. Myself and most players I know do not care much about these things at all.

    Bottom line is, there are too few rewards from rated pvp and the scarce selection of rewards that exist have a rating requirement which is out of reach for most PvPers.

    The solution IMO? Bring back the old rating requirement system where each 50-100 rating unlocks a new conquest set piece starting with gloves at 1550 arena rating (starting 200 or 250 higher for RBG rating). Weapons should be available ay 1750 (1950-2000 RBG) rating so decent players can stand a chance against "elite" players (or at least not be hugely disadvantaged because of weapon damage output). Shoulders should have the highest rating requirement (2200 arena, about 2400 RBG). This would IMO encourage a lot more players to play rated PvP and keep working on their rating and gradually becoming better to eventually have a chance at 2.2k+. At the same time it will keep the gear disparity between the decent and the pros in check so gear doesn't necessarily dictate who wins or loses a game.
    Last edited by Demonized; 2013-04-02 at 07:24 PM. Reason: typos

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Machomaije's Avatar
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    If your a melee you get a reward. But, if your a caster you dont.

    Give us a decent rating enchant for weps aswell!!!!!

  11. #11
    Brewmaster Grievuuz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machomaije View Post
    If your a melee you get a reward. But, if your a caster you dont.

    Give us a decent rating enchant for weps aswell!!!!!
    So slow - check the new 5.3 ptr notes
    Quote Originally Posted by Laraven View Post
    Umm, skinny guys with abs are like a fat girl with big boobs. It don't really count.
    Grievuuz#2550
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  12. #12
    Dreadlord Kegler's Avatar
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    For what its worth, they are boosting the ilvl on the new gear up to 496 come 5.3, so its 5 ilvls instead of 2 for ya!

  13. #13
    i dont know, im playing with my friends because its fun, i give zero **** about rewards, my reward is the fun.

  14. #14
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asb View Post
    In my experience there are very few people who enjoy RBGs, and that seems to be what you've focused on. You sarcastically mentioned mages are necessary for 3v3, so I'm guessing you haven't really done arena seriously or at a high rating. I can only recommend that you give arena a try, since that's what most people actually PvP for. It's a lot more balanced than the community's offhanded complaints would have you believe, and it has a realtime strategy element to it that's really unlike any other form of PvP in this game (not to downtalk RBGs, but they're more about team positioning than combat unless there's a huge skill difference).

    The obvious rewards are the titles--RBGs kind of suck for that because there's only one sort of glad-equivalent title. If you don't play with one of the best groups or wintrade, you just have your high warlord/grand marshall and war wolf/horse like everyone else. Arenas reward graduated (and non-permanent) titles, so even if you're playing at low levels you have something to shoot for. They're trying to add in more rewards too, so you may find something worthwhile will surface in time. More importantly, most people who do arena actually find the gameplay fun (to some degree). It seems like the titles/gear are just a way to get people started, but the actual game is why they keep playing.

    If all that fails, maybe just run random BGs. Your entire post seems to suggest that the only possible purpose of competitive play is tangible reward items and that the simplicity of a random BG is where the real fun is. I actually don't know a single person that finds BGs entertaining. At some point playing with and against undergeared keyboard-turners gets tiresome. If you can find enjoyment in it maybe that's a gift that you should take advantage of.
    Asb usually writes some good posts. This is spot on.

    The game should be enjoyable from a competitive aspect. Not a "What do I get if I put myself through this kind of abuse" aspect.

  15. #15
    Nobody's forcing you to do rated stuff - Run randoms, gank people, etc

  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    I sure do wish there were non-ranked alternatives to earning conquest that weren't comparable to wanting to drill a hole into your face. Hell, I wish there were more PVP options that were random in general. I don't give a damn about rewards so much past "needing" them for my character to be stronger in PVP, but I sure as hell do wish there were more ways to have fun with PVP that didn't require manual grouping, and knowing people and the like. I really wonder why MMOs are like that with their stuff. No other type of genre really is like that with PVP content. "Pity content that doesn't count, everyone can do it, and you get little out of it for doing it, little advancement of your character. Meanwhile, we'll have the REAL content over here. With a bunch of hurdles to jump over to do!"

    Could you imagine if, for example, half of Battlefield 3 was disabled to the average player with absolutely no matchmaking at all, and half the weapons and upgrades were disabled and such, as well? And to access this content, you had to manually form groups of specific people, and you could only earn your content that way? No one would freaking have it. Why do people put up with it in MMOs? Are we seriously to believe that this such a deep, and complex genre, above all the others in the world, that it necessitates such gating away the content from the lowly riff raffs?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Grievuuz View Post
    So slow - check the new 5.3 ptr notes
    oh you meant

    "New weapon enchantment: Spirit of Conquest is functionally equivalent to Jade Spirit, shares the same visual effect as Glorious Tyranny, costs a scroll of the base enchant, and requires a 2200 rating."

    yea.. meh.
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-04-03 at 01:47 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Machomaije's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grievuuz View Post
    So slow - check the new 5.3 ptr notes
    Yeeee. And how is that a equal reward to the one melees get? It's the excact same as Jade Spirit? Dont even get how that can be a 2.2k reward when everyone can have it just that its called another thing

  19. #19
    You know gaming has gone to hell when "carrot on a stick" game design is an acceptable way of getting gamers to play your game over "design your game so that players will want to play it because it's fun".

  20. #20
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machomaije View Post
    Yeeee. And how is that a equal reward to the one melees get? It's the excact same as Jade Spirit? Dont even get how that can be a 2.2k reward when everyone can have it just that its called another thing
    It's just vanity. They give exactly the same bonuses as the PvE versions, they just looks different.

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