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  1. #1

    [Help] Mage horrible Dps/Combustion

    My guild is 12/12 and this week we will start heroics. And my percentile is complete garbage. Under 30 sometimes 25.
    I am 510, Troll fire mage spent 1-2hours last night trying to a good combust. My best shot was 20k
    I uploaded the video of my best combust so far on a dummy.
    I do exactly what i am supposed to do:
    Prepot
    Mirror images
    hard cast Pyro
    Wait for heat up + Pyro
    wait for Trinkets to proc
    Use Cds(ie berserking etc)
    POM
    AT
    Spam pyro(till done)
    Rehit AT
    Spam pyro(till done)
    Hit combust when last pyro in the Air.



    These are my character's stats :

    Spell Power26982
    Haste7.37%
    Hit+15.00%
    Crit24.63% (9626 cr)
    Mastery18.65%
    19444 int

    My weapon : Staff 504 Lei shi
    Trinkets : Essence of terror normal Upgraded, Shado pan assault. (alternate Relic of yulon)

    My trinkets are horrible but they are the best I can get at the moment.

    Should i steer away from fire for a little bit till i get good trinkets for strong combusts ? Should i switch to Frost?

    Do i have just the most horrible luck in the history of luck ?

    Please help,

    Jenova

  2. #2
    Hi,

    This is a very common misconception. You should not hit combustion when you've fired your 4 pyros, thats useless.

    But you should combust when 2 (or more if you like to gamble) pyros critted in a row.

    Did you read the fire mage guide in the forum ? You should find a more detailled description of how ignite works. That's a very common question here
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  3. #3
    The Patient royals's Avatar
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    Yes what Eihwaz is saying is true, Pyro dot has no bearing on Combustion anymore, the only benefit of using your Combust after your Pyro!/PomPyro chain is that after a couple of these crit (in a row) you should be using Combustion. Since the crits are what are going to add into your ignite for nomnomnom tasty combustion. Use some sort of scrolling battle text or even just keep the default bliz UI on to just see direct damage and watch for BIG NUMBERS. 2+crits and your procs... I had a ~120k Combust on an opening pull of Durumu last week.
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  4. #4
    I actually have a question as well, his trinkets are practically the same as I have, except I also have LoC, which would be best to use? EoT/LoC/Shado-Pan Trinket/Yulon?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Hi,

    This is a very common misconception. You should not hit combustion when you've fired your 4 pyros, thats useless.

    But you should combust when 2 (or more if you like to gamble) pyros critted in a row.

    Did you read the fire mage guide in the forum ? You should find a more detailled description of how ignite works. That's a very common question here
    While this might be true, if you do the pom-AT combo you most likely crit at some point. Only if you are very unlucky then you get only 4 pyros with no crit at all...on the other hand with a fucked up rng if you dont use it then you just might sit forever on your cds...

  6. #6
    1) Get WeakAuras
    2) Import the below string (tells you what your ignite is on your current target and updates with the tooltip):
    Code:
    dOJUcaGELiBteZukrZMu(nj3uj0Pf62QIldANa2lA3uA)kr9tbzyqACuCEGmuPegSsQgoeoOQu9xsfhtLoNsXcvHLQKYIfulxrpujPNsSmv0ZL0evLYuvyYI00P6Isj5Qsj1ZGQRlWgbQPjvBwvTDPu(OuQUKsIplfFxjyKKkDyrnALQgVQKtsQ6wq01KW9uQ8yj61kL(guMxoOK5GoLkLjo6LYdLukPCqjnwrOLbnGVCkRuPak0)xHobJSWGJHAmxJPahnXy4hzpHsSuz5bfFgBAGtoOKcdh8)dqiGu0991weCRBjf1c2qwnq8GsGn6u88Sb6ucQqDS5hipOudcxQcSopOyZpqk6BSrhsXMFG6OqaNzxnPSBhfxP08icDuiGZSRMu2TJYpqtRwMT8GoLuyn7bZSdzykFL1POB2Mc1wE92v((y5YRFmOShgB27eC3GIB6MnyBmy4yBo5hz3qrtLt5GYuPb5GYtGMh5GoD6u(kRlXLGe4StjnwrOLbjEUCBLYkvktytuzhGqaP4WxoLsLMAYbbojym8ogA3yqXnjy3Kt(rwGtaCcgdVJH2nguCtc2nbNFKff0Pu9C526QkRNJ2hO1POhq0)wROSKs9qaukXuk6BSrhs5vO)VcDcUWKC7fO43emSI(zb)i7Dklet99eS5IM0ny3eScZ5jQHFK9nuSbpJzSPboRe4sjh4kEqP6XYTGElyM9OYYWuI22GZkKHPu9C52AlurRt5i0yeAX103UUdko8LVQstn5GaxcCjWjbUeaNaxc0jWLoDkTrGBhfLoj
    3) Do your thing with your trinkets/AT/pyro procs etc etc.
    4) When you see a big ass number in this weakaura, hit combustion!

    www.scrubbusters.com - 12/14HC - Recruiting exceptional players!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Grondath View Post
    1) Get WeakAuras
    2) Import the below string (tells you what your ignite is on your current target and updates with the tooltip):
    Code:
    dOJUcaGELiBteZukrZMu(nj3uj0Pf62QIldANa2lA3uA)kr9tbzyqACuCEGmuPegSsQgoeoOQu9xsfhtLoNsXcvHLQKYIfulxrpujPNsSmv0ZL0evLYuvyYI00P6Isj5Qsj1ZGQRlWgbQPjvBwvTDPu(OuQUKsIplfFxjyKKkDyrnALQgVQKtsQ6wq01KW9uQ8yj61kL(guMxoOK5GoLkLjo6LYdLukPCqjnwrOLbnGVCkRuPak0)xHobJSWGJHAmxJPahnXy4hzpHsSuz5bfFgBAGtoOKcdh8)dqiGu0991weCRBjf1c2qwnq8GsGn6u88Sb6ucQqDS5hipOudcxQcSopOyZpqk6BSrhsXMFG6OqaNzxnPSBhfxP08icDuiGZSRMu2TJYpqtRwMT8GoLuyn7bZSdzykFL1POB2Mc1wE92v((y5YRFmOShgB27eC3GIB6MnyBmy4yBo5hz3qrtLt5GYuPb5GYtGMh5GoD6u(kRlXLGe4StjnwrOLbjEUCBLYkvktytuzhGqaP4WxoLsLMAYbbojym8ogA3yqXnjy3Kt(rwGtaCcgdVJH2nguCtc2nbNFKff0Pu9C526QkRNJ2hO1POhq0)wROSKs9qaukXuk6BSrhs5vO)VcDcUWKC7fO43emSI(zb)i7Dklet99eS5IM0ny3eScZ5jQHFK9nuSbpJzSPboRe4sjh4kEqP6XYTGElyM9OYYWuI22GZkKHPu9C52AlurRt5i0yeAX103UUdko8LVQstn5GaxcCjWjbUeaNaxc0jWLoDkTrGBhfLoj
    3) Do your thing with your trinkets/AT/pyro procs etc etc.
    4) When you see a big ass number in this weakaura, hit combustion!
    Does it update fast enough ? can you add a screenshot of how it looks ?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PPN View Post
    While this might be true, if you do the pom-AT combo you most likely crit at some point. Only if you are very unlucky then you get only 4 pyros with no crit at all...on the other hand with a fucked up rng if you dont use it then you just might sit forever on your cds...
    There's only one case where this could be good. If your 2 (or 3 if you are really lucky) pyros crit.

    If your 2 first pyro crit, your combustion will be bigger if you Combustion now compared to after the 4 pyro.
    If you 2 middle pyro crit, same thing.

    And you are far more likely I think to have to Combustion in the beggining, because for your first pyro you'll have Pyro! + HU procs, so most of the time you first 2 pyros dont use PoM, which result in a bigger ignite (because HU increase the damage of Pyroblast by 25% if i'm not mistaken, whereas PoM Pyro doesnt)

    So getting a pyro crit "at some point", isnt the good way to do it.
    Last edited by Eihwaz; 2013-04-02 at 07:19 PM.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fusionz View Post
    Does it update fast enough ? can you add a screenshot of how it looks ?
    It's just a number on the screen, it updates at the exact same speed as the tooltip value (which is slightly faster than reading the last tick of ignite)

    www.scrubbusters.com - 12/14HC - Recruiting exceptional players!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Grondath View Post
    1) Get WeakAuras
    2) Import the below string (tells you what your ignite is on your current target and updates with the tooltip):
    Code:
    dOJUcaGELiBteZukrZMu(nj3uj0Pf62QIldANa2lA3uA)kr9tbzyqACuCEGmuPegSsQgoeoOQu9xsfhtLoNsXcvHLQKYIfulxrpujPNsSmv0ZL0evLYuvyYI00P6Isj5Qsj1ZGQRlWgbQPjvBwvTDPu(OuQUKsIplfFxjyKKkDyrnALQgVQKtsQ6wq01KW9uQ8yj61kL(guMxoOK5GoLkLjo6LYdLukPCqjnwrOLbnGVCkRuPak0)xHobJSWGJHAmxJPahnXy4hzpHsSuz5bfFgBAGtoOKcdh8)dqiGu0991weCRBjf1c2qwnq8GsGn6u88Sb6ucQqDS5hipOudcxQcSopOyZpqk6BSrhsXMFG6OqaNzxnPSBhfxP08icDuiGZSRMu2TJYpqtRwMT8GoLuyn7bZSdzykFL1POB2Mc1wE92v((y5YRFmOShgB27eC3GIB6MnyBmy4yBo5hz3qrtLt5GYuPb5GYtGMh5GoD6u(kRlXLGe4StjnwrOLbjEUCBLYkvktytuzhGqaP4WxoLsLMAYbbojym8ogA3yqXnjy3Kt(rwGtaCcgdVJH2nguCtc2nbNFKff0Pu9C526QkRNJ2hO1POhq0)wROSKs9qaukXuk6BSrhs5vO)VcDcUWKC7fO43emSI(zb)i7Dklet99eS5IM0ny3eScZ5jQHFK9nuSbpJzSPboRe4sjh4kEqP6XYTGElyM9OYYWuI22GZkKHPu9C52AlurRt5i0yeAX103UUdko8LVQstn5GaxcCjWjbUeaNaxc0jWLoDkTrGBhfLoj
    3) Do your thing with your trinkets/AT/pyro procs etc etc.
    4) When you see a big ass number in this weakaura, hit combustion!
    Awesome string... do you have more good stuff of weak aura to send me? Thx!

  11. #11
    If you popped your presence of mind/alter time macro and those pyro's aren't critting, you definitely want to reconsider using combustion. Someone else already said it, but yes, waiting for 2 pyro crits back to back is a better bet... or at least make sure your trinkets are procced when you do that macro. To be honest, 510 is too low for fire, it may be the spec you like best, but be prepared to be on the low end of the dps meters - especially if a lot of your gear has mastery with no crit on it (most of the VP stuff is awful for fire, and the stuff that isn't ends up taking a tier slot).

  12. #12
    I am 507 but I am doing better in fire than frost. So it is not really about ILVL it is more about crit, with my 507 gear I have 11.5k crit.

  13. #13
    Warchief gutnbrg's Avatar
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    how is ur crit rating so low? im ilvl 500 and i have more haste than u and my crit rating is 31.6%...

  14. #14
    The Patient elpadrino293's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    There's only one case where this could be good. If your 2 (or 3 if you are really lucky) pyros crit.
    there is another case. when your haste is high enough, via lust or troll berserking racial, and you can land 2 pyroblasts in between ticks of ignite.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by elpadrino293 View Post
    there is another case. when your haste is high enough, via lust or troll berserking racial, and you can land 2 pyroblasts in between ticks of ignite.
    Yeah thats pretty rare at lower ilvl but you're right . I wanted to keep this simple ^^.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  16. #16
    I really hate how RNG dependent Fire is, it's just badly designed imo. Destro is a spec that similarly relies on crits, but imho deals with it better.

    Whenever I play destro I'm having fun, with Fire I'm frustrated at least half the time because the damn crits come just after I've given up on achieving a good Ignite and used Combustion with a mediocre Ignite. Or I just don't get any damn crits at all.

    A few days ago I tested on a doll a bit, I just chain-casted Pyroblast, Infernoblast when I had Heating Up, and Pyroblast! proc, nothing else, and I just didn't get any damn Combustion value higher than 20k max. With Destro, you crit, you gain an Ember, sooner or later you're guaranteed a Chaos Bolt/Shadowburn. With bad RNG with Fire you can go the entire fight without a decent Combustion.

  17. #17
    The Patient royals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_entity View Post
    I really hate how RNG dependent Fire is, it's just badly designed imo. Destro is a spec that similarly relies on crits, but imho deals with it better.

    Whenever I play destro I'm having fun, with Fire I'm frustrated at least half the time because the damn crits come just after I've given up on achieving a good Ignite and used Combustion with a mediocre Ignite. Or I just don't get any damn crits at all.

    A few days ago I tested on a doll a bit, I just chain-casted Pyroblast, Infernoblast when I had Heating Up, and Pyroblast! proc, nothing else, and I just didn't get any damn Combustion value higher than 20k max. With Destro, you crit, you gain an Ember, sooner or later you're guaranteed a Chaos Bolt/Shadowburn. With bad RNG with Fire you can go the entire fight without a decent Combustion.
    You are getting shit ignites casting Pyro+IB ONLY because you are doing your rotation poorly, cast time of pyro is going to cause your ignites to diminish over the course of the cast. This is why we use Fireball as a filler, not Pyro. Seems silly to complain that your ignites are poor when you are doing the rotation poorly. If you correctly cast your rotation you will see ignite go up and in turn higher combustions.

    Edit: You also didn't mention having a bomb up on the target, which would also give you your pyromaniac buff... increasing ignite more.
    <The Decoy> 2 Night/Week 10M - US - Illidan - 13/13 HC T15, 13/14 HC T16
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  18. #18
    Like all of you guys, I've been gearing mastery for Arcane last tier and since we were progressing on end bosses heroic content I didn't want to hinder my group and play another spec. Anyway, I realize that my crit is super low, I switched to frost and i will probably keep going frost since my gear seems to put out bigger numbers until i can at least get new trinkets (Aka Brillance and hydra) and the 4 set and hopefully putting me above at least 12k crit.
    Thanks for the answers tho. I appreciate it

  19. #19
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    How are your stats that bad when your raid team is 12/12? Are you not rolling on gear?

    Your trinkets are blech, but I'm kinda shocked you have two passive Intellect trinkets with that low of Spellpower.

    Could you link your armory?

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
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  20. #20
    If you don't like WeakAuras; CombustionHelper will also track your bomb,ignite (with damage numbers) and pyro dot.

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