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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeActionTess View Post
    The majority of their fleet (Naval and air) resides in that nice port parked right behind orgrimmar
    Yeah. The Naval assets are worthless to both sides (land locked city) and the only thing our airforce does is explode dramatically when you point a camera at it. It doesn't matter who holds that port, it won't be helping anyone.

  2. #42
    I imagine that at the end of the expansion we will have something like the complete unconditional surrender of the horde to the alliance. Jaina is going to become her father x100, becoming regent lord of all former horde territories. As a horde player you will begin the next expansion imprisoned in an alliance internment camp. Every day caravans will be taking horde prisoners into the barrens, but none of those prisoners ever return, and there has started to be a strange phenomena of white ash clouds from the west blanketing Durotar. The aim is to make the next expansion story line a cross between 'The Road' and 'Inglorious Basterds'.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
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  3. #43
    Epic! Duravian's Avatar
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    I'm afraid the Alliance won't know when to stop once they have Orgrimmar under control. We're basically letting them take over the Horde... that sounds a little risky to me.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 09:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    I imagine that at the end of the expansion we will have something like the complete unconditional surrender of the horde to the alliance. Jaina is going to become her father x100, becoming regent lord of all former horde territories. As a horde player you will begin the next expansion imprisoned in an alliance internment camp. Every day caravans will be taking horde prisoners into the barrens, but none of those prisoners ever return, and there has started to be a strange phenomena of white ash clouds from the west blanketing Durotar. The aim is to make the next expansion story line a cross between 'The Road' and 'Inglorious Basterds'.
    And "The Boy in the Striped Pajamas"
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    Yeah. The Naval assets are worthless to both sides (land locked city) and the only thing our airforce does is explode when you point a camera at it. It doesn't matter who holds that port, it won't be helping anyone.
    A naval force is far from useless. While the city is landlocked, they still need to transport the troops. When the Alliance attacked Orgrimmar in Tides of War, they did so using a fleet, and Garrosh defended it using a fleet (and Kraken). And the ships needs air support, and bombers are quite handy for a siege. So yes, Bilgewater Harbor matters a lot. Not to mention the place contains a truckload of wierd tech, explosives and a huge death-ray like canon.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 04:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Duravian View Post
    I'm afraid the Alliance won't know when to stop once they have Orgrimmar under control. We're basically letting them take over the Horde... that sounds a little risky to me.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 09:37 AM ----------



    And "The Boy in the Striped Pajamas"
    They are not taking over the Horde by helping to remove Garrosh and his Kor'kron. They come as allies well knowing that Vol'jin and Baine and possibly even Lor'themar are to be trusted in said conflict. Also, the first thing Blizzard said themselves about the Alliance participation was that the Alliance comes in as a "super hero squad", they are deployed to take out the main bad guy and then disperse.
    *broken link*
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    It's not a major Horde storyline - it's a major storyline, the end.
    Let's see, an orc warchief facing a revolt of tauren for killing their leader (Whether Garrosh knew about the poison or not, Cairne is still dead), blood elves for a repeat of the Garithos-affair and trolls for... being a bully or something, seems pretty horde-centered to me.

    The alliance's involvement with the horde struggles is zero, as far as the alliance should realistically care, the revolution would be a good time to crush the horde once and for all (horde internal strife was a good help back in "Warcraft II"), but due to the limitations of a two-faction game, the alliance will both help the revolt (Otherwise tier 16 will be a horde-only affair), and go back home again once Garrosh is pushing up daisies (Since neither side can ever fully lose), hardly the alliance "Fist bump moment" we were promised at the end of hordaclysm...

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    The thing is, at this rate, they almost are different factions. We have the Horde (Garrosh) on one side, beleiving in conquest, power and supremacy - then we have the Horde (Trolls, Thrall,Tauren, Blood Elves, Forsaken, Goblin - possible Huojin Pandaren) who believe in freedom, peace and diplomacy. They are litteraly two different factions, despite being the same.
    I would rather say that they have a different Horde in their minds, but they are still Horde.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    I would hope that SoO will show all major lore characters from both factions during the encounters and scenes. (The alternative being none or an ICC style cutscenes).
    I personally doubt it. I was truly hoping 5.3 would be where both factions poise themselves and make preparations for the siege with the Alliance reinforcing Ashenvale in preparation combined with the Eastern Kingdoms front receiving some closure. By doing those things they would bring all characters into the forefront and have them there in the battle.

    Where's Genn? Where's Velen? He didn't heal Anduin in the end despite being called upon on what I can only assume was a red herring. Where's Tyrande and Malfurion in all this? Even Mekkatorque?
    These questions need answers and I feel they have ultimately been replaced with helping Vol'jin rebel. Maybe these things will appear in 5.4. But so far every patch with these heroes has been "maybe next patch" and nothing has happened.
    Meanwhile the Horde leaders left right and centre are being built up to the siege with Vol'jin specifically mentioning them readying themselves. Goblins are being pushed into the rebellion in 5.3. The only race which hasn't been pushed in MoP are the Forsaken who tbh made it clear where they stood in Cata.

    This is what is annoying me and why I'm in a real whining mood atm with Warcraft. I am tired of waiting.

  8. #48
    How awesome would it be if alliance completely take over org and move the horde completely out to thunder bluff ... Continue the war into the next expac...could easily be re taken in a scenario just so horde don't QQ.

  9. #49
    Old God Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    Threads like these makes me love GW2's no-part-players-between-blue-and-red.
    Being critical is a burden which some people loves to bear.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    Let's see, an orc warchief facing a revolt of tauren for killing their leader (Whether Garrosh knew about the poison or not, Cairne is still dead), blood elves for a repeat of the Garithos-affair and trolls for... being a bully or something, seems pretty horde-centered to me.

    The alliance's involvement with the horde struggles is zero, as far as the alliance should realistically care, the revolution would be a good time to crush the horde once and for all (horde internal strife was a good help back in "Warcraft II"), but due to the limitations of a two-faction game, the alliance will both help the revolt (Otherwise tier 16 will be a horde-only affair), and go back home again once Garrosh is pushing up daisies (Since neither side can ever fully lose), hardly the alliance "Fist bump moment" we were promised at the end of hordaclysm...
    Again, the Alliance gets to remove an evil, insane tyrant while getting to show off how much better they are for not having any internal strife - how is that not a "fist bump moment"?
    *broken link*
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    Threads like these makes me love GW2's no-part-players-between-blue-and-red.
    Does GW2 have a good story? I've been debating about picking it up and playing it until the next WoW expansion. I'm not a fan of this story arc and am currently awaiting a return to the cold war style story with a big main villain before I resub to WoW.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I personally doubt it. I was truly hoping 5.3 would be where both factions poise themselves and make preparations for the siege with the Alliance reinforcing Ashenvale in preparation combined with the Eastern Kingdoms front receiving some closure. By doing those things they would bring all characters into the forefront and have them there in the battle.

    Where's Genn? Where's Velen? He didn't heal Anduin in the end despite being called upon on what I can only assume was a red herring. Where's Tyrande and Malfurion in all this? Even Mekkatorque?
    These questions need answers and I feel they have ultimately been replaced with helping Vol'jin rebel. Maybe these things will appear in 5.4. But so far every patch with these heroes has been "maybe next patch" and nothing has happened.
    Meanwhile the Horde leaders left right and centre are being built up to the siege with Vol'jin specifically mentioning them readying themselves. Goblins are being pushed into the rebellion in 5.3. The only race which hasn't been pushed in MoP are the Forsaken who tbh made it clear where they stood in Cata.

    This is what is annoying me and why I'm in a real whining mood atm with Warcraft. I am tired of waiting.
    Tyrande was in 5.1, and you'll get to see Moira do stuff in 5.3. As for Genn, Velen and Malfurion - I raise you Gallywix; A racial leader not even in the game past level 12.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 04:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Does GW2 have a good story? I've been debating about picking it up and playing it until the next WoW expansion.
    Something about pissed off dragons popping up here and there.
    *broken link*
    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    Threads like these makes me love GW2's no-part-players-between-blue-and-red.
    I would prefer that, but it will never happen in WoW. It's too fundamental to the game. Instead will will just have more struggle without conclusion as the H/A war drags on forever.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeActionTess View Post
    I would rather say that they have a different Horde in their minds, but they are still Horde.
    Of course, however the differences are so great that you might consider them different factions.
    *broken link*
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    There are alternatives to letting the Alliance into Org to kill the Horde Warchief that accomplish that. The major Horde Garrosh resistance sieges Org to arrest Garrosh. Once he is arrested he is given to a council of Horde and Alliance faction leaders that can decide what they want to do with him. So Jaina can get her revenge personally if she wants.

    The Alliance doesnt think they are doing the Horde a favor, they think they are doing what the Horde couldnt or wouldnt and are happily going to take out the leader of the Horde. If they could they would do the same to the other leaders and raze every city.
    But the Horde rebels will be there too. It's not the Alliance doing all the work for the Horde. And if the Horde did it themselves, then simply giving the alliance a shared trial would be a very weak ending.

    The Alliance has just as much reason to see Garrosh go down as the horde rebels.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    Threads like these makes me love GW2's no-part-players-between-blue-and-red.
    While I agree that a two faction system is flawed, I'd rather have that over a no faction system. I suppose a four faction system would be preferable really, though impossible or at least hard to deal with. A three faction system usually ends up with two factions ganking the third, or the third being so big and popular that the two others are made redundant.
    *broken link*
    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  17. #57
    Except that they can't handle it on their own.

    First off, the Darkspear trolls are either under house arrest or incapacitated so right off the bat, an entire race of the Horde is unable to go up against Garrosh.

    The Blood Elves are dealing with internal strife between the Sunreavers and the Horde supporting faction, and the Forsaken are off scheming how to kill everyone.

    The goblins aren't necessarily interested in politics and are willing to deal with whoever's in power provided that they have deep pockets.

    The tauren tend to be more passive and even now are joining the revolution but did not start it themselves.

    In fact, the revolution itself is dependent almost entirely on the presence of the Alliance. Without it, the Darkspear don't really have any force to bring to the table and the Tauren aren't going to join up and reveal their intentions unless they know they have a solid chance of winning. The Alliance ensures that one way or another, the Horde will be rid of Garrosh.

    Moreover, for those involved with the Horde revolutionaries, they perceive the Alliance and Garrosh to be enemies, so if you can get them to kill each other, that's less work for them.

    TL;DR - the whole success of this revolution will be the presence of the Alliance.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Duravian View Post
    And "The Boy in the Striped Pajamas"
    I was thinking that the alliance story line would be modeled after 'Blood Meridian', you join up with a group tasked with the extermination of remnant horde 'tribes.' There might even be quests/mini-games where you massacre orc children. The entire expansion could be a study of the human condition and the depths of evil which exist in the souls of all beings, with a hearty dose of nihilism.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. -Howard Zinn
    The stars may be far away, but people still reach for them. -My Grandfather

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    A naval force is far from useless. While the city is landlocked, they still need to transport the troops. When the Alliance attacked Orgrimmar in Tides of War, they did so using a fleet, and Garrosh defended it using a fleet (and Kraken). And the ships needs air support, and bombers are quite handy for a siege. So yes, Bilgewater Harbor matters a lot. Not to mention the place contains a truckload of wierd tech, explosives and a huge death-ray like canon.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 04:39 PM ----------



    They are not taking over the Horde by helping to remove Garrosh and his Kor'kron. They come as allies well knowing that Vol'jin and Baine and possibly even Lor'themar are to be trusted in said conflict. Also, the first thing Blizzard said themselves about the Alliance participation was that the Alliance comes in as a "super hero squad", they are deployed to take out the main bad guy and then disperse.
    They ain't taking boats, jaina just teleports them into the city or right outside it from the different continents lol.
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  20. #60
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Again, the Alliance gets to remove an evil, insane tyrant while getting to show off how much better they are for not having any internal strife - how is that not a "fist bump moment"?
    Fist bump to what though?
    Killing Garrosh? That doesn't make Alliance players feel special. People want something that makes them happy to play their faction and have a little pride in the faction they play. Killing Garrosh is not a unique experience.
    Being united? I'll be frank and say that this whole "Alliance is united" deal hasn't been pulled off well. If the actual gameplay and books are anything to go by the Horde has been presented as far more united in it's cause against Garrosh than the Alliance is.

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