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  1. #1

    WoW has politics? You bet your FOTM it does!! Holy disc priest!!

    Blizzard is very political when it comes to changes. One of the reasons they have taken this position is flailing when changes happen to another class or spec. If your class/spec is getting nurfed than no one better be getting buffed. You can see it all over the wow forums. So how does this pertain to priest? Well I am not sure how it started but at some point Disc has become Blizzards baby. There has been more changes to disc than any other spec for 3 expansions now. Now they have a full on revamp in my opinion with changes to crit and aegis.

    While I don't feel that Holy is broken they logs clearly show disc pulling higher numbers on almost every fight. Sure you can say "that is because all the good priests are disc right now, if they went holy than holy would be at the top." If that were true it would be a more of what spec do you like better kind of deal and there would be more even amounts. It could be that disc is just more fun to play but that would not matter to top guilds who would make players play what is best not what is fun. Politically would it be smart to buff holy when they just changed disc? Not really, there is already a ton of out crys to revert the disc changes. While I personally think the disc changes were a buff and a awesome dynamic to add to wow people fear change.

    I love priest and I don't care to see any of the spec suffer. The truth is disc brings so much more to the table than Holy. Holy the original healer use to be the pillar of healing. Look at the icon on the healing forums on battle.net. It's a Holy priest! So why does the Holy priest parse so much lower on 90% of the fights vs disc and yet disc still pulls an amazing amount of damage? I can't answer that, only blizzard can but what I can say is it wouldn't be the best move to buff Holy while changing Disc. I see a great deal of politics there.

    It saddens me to see Holy in the state that it is in always in the shadow of it's disc brother. My heart goes out and I will pray that balance will be found.

    If I could name off one easy fix it would be Spirit and intellect. Disc can stack so much more int not needing as much spirit as Holy. If Holy was given better regen or a reduction in mana cost it would allow for more int stacking and would level out it's numbers with disc. Bam, easy fix. maybe in 5.3, lets hope Holy will one day return as it once was.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal Brightmist's Avatar
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    Holy is good as it is.

  3. #3
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Holy is fine. Just because its lower doesn't mean it's in a bad state. Inevitably, one of the two specs is going to end up generally mathematically better. The problem is baking two healing specs into one class, to me that was a bad idea.

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  4. #4
    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    Holy is fine. Just because its lower doesn't mean it's in a bad state. Inevitably, one of the two specs is going to end up generally mathematically better. The problem is baking two healing specs into one class, to me that was a bad idea.

    I agree balancing two healing specs is not easy. I wouldn't call it a bad idea, what would priest be without both disc and holy? So if one is mathematically better than you just need to do the math to balance them?

    I think those that regularly play both know that holy just needs a tad bit better regen or lower mana cost. That will free up the ability to run some int gems and pull those numbers more in line with Disc.
    Last edited by Nightstorm; 2013-03-30 at 03:25 PM.

  5. #5
    Why does disc parse higher than holy in most cases? It's called padding meters with absorbs pretty much like paladins do with illuminated healing, if holy had absorbs it would be first as well or if you remove all the absorb healers on your raid.
    Wanna see the true healing each spec does? Unmerge absorbs from healing on your recount/skada.
    Isheria - Method - Twisting Nether

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Why does disc parse higher than holy in most cases? It's called padding meters with absorbs pretty much like paladins do with illuminated healing, if holy had absorbs it would be first as well or if you remove all the absorb healers on your raid.
    Wanna see the true healing each spec does? Unmerge absorbs from healing on your recount/skada.
    I wish it were that easy but if you take absorbs out you are taking out everyone crit and SS a disc has. It is a known fact disc has better mana efficiency that holy. If a holy priest doesn't stack as much spirit as they can they will go oom in progression. Disc can happily stack int for some added punch.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstorm View Post
    [/COLOR]


    I agree balancing two healing specs is not easy. I wouldn't call it a bad idea, what would priest be without both disc and holy? So if one is mathematically better than you just need to do the math to balance them?

    I think those that regularly play both know that holy just needs a tad bit better regen or lower mana cost. That will free up the ability to run some int gems and pull those numbers more in line with Disc.
    Mathematically they have near-equal output, but mathematically there is only so much HP and Damage, and since absorbs get counted first things like echo of light, renew, PoM, etc have diminished effect.

    And disc originally had a dps flair to it. If I remember correctly, it was supposed to be sort of monk-ish, with inner fire providing attack power and certain races having a debuff that triggered on dealing melee damage.

    It's impossible to balance all 5 healing specs, much less 2 in one class, without making them seem too similar.

    It's hard to say no to Yoo-Hoo chocolate drinks...the name literally beckons.
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  8. #8
    I know it's a radical idea but maybe blizzard should balance around meters since the population does. Then adjust the fights accordingly. The truth is if you are an absorb class you are boss in everyone's eyes due to meters. Do I like it? no. I just call it like I see it.

  9. #9
    How current mistweavers compare to holy priests is what makes me worried. Almost every healer brings something unique to the table. Sure we have echo of light to stabilize the raid, but mistweavers and their REM seem to be doing a better job than holy priests in that area. They have a lot of healing potential, even more than holy priests.

    Shammies have their cooldowns and mana tide.
    Paladins have illuminated healing and very strong aoe/tank healing overall.
    Disc has a lot of absorbs and some dps to help enrage timers.
    Mistweavers have a lot of raw healing.

    Resto druids and holy priests need help in my opinion, not because they are bad but because they bring nothing unique to the table.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    How current mistweavers compare to holy priests is what makes me worried. Almost every healer brings something unique to the table. Sure we have echo of light to stabilize the raid, but mistweavers and their REM seem to be doing a better job than holy priests in that area. They have a lot of healing potential, even more than holy priests.

    Shammies have their cooldowns and mana tide.
    Paladins have illuminated healing and very strong aoe/tank healing overall.
    Disc has a lot of absorbs and some dps to help enrage timers.
    Mistweavers have a lot of raw healing.

    Resto druids and holy priests need help in my opinion, not because they are bad but because they bring nothing unique to the table.
    Your right, I feel Holy does need something unique to bring and/or be tuned up just a smidge. I hear people say holy is fine all the time. I don't understand why they say it. Do they not like holy? or just that oblivious to the lack of demand for Holy priests.

  11. #11
    For 10man, the problem is that atonement is stupidly strong. It's incredibly mana efficient, does very good throughput (especially penance) and the damage it adds is far from trivial.

    If you can 2-heal a fight as a disc priest, why would you go holy?

  12. #12
    As much as I like it, the Atonement range buff was what put disc where it is now. Rather than just healing the tanks/melee with it, you now have the ability to mindlessly spam 3 spells that smart heal the entire raid, cost very little mana, and scale with damage and healing buffs. IMO this should be changed back to 10 or 20 yds, but disc throughput should be buffed slightly as compensation. Atonement would still be useful for tank healing or periods of low raid damage, but you wouldn't be able to smite spam 80% of the fight and top the healing meter.
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  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstorm View Post
    Your right, I feel Holy does need something unique to bring and/or be tuned up just a smidge. I hear people say holy is fine all the time. I don't understand why they say it. Do they not like holy? or just that oblivious to the lack of demand for Holy priests.
    I agree and I do think GC realized this to after answering a few tweets. Especially that Chakras needs a rework for Holy to be back on track! We probably wont see hotfixes this tier but my female intuition tells me they will start working on the specc now and I feel pretty excited about it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-31 at 10:15 AM ----------

    As absorbs are inflating other healers so severly (yeah, some are justifying paladins/disc topping meters because they have absorbs) then absorbs needs to be nerfed/balanced back to heals.

    1 min SS is ridiculous. 1 min CD on bosses AoE/burst in combination with that is also ridiculous. Illuminated Healing just looks mad on the healing done atm by the paladins who do top healing overall.

    Ofc you have a point saying that since absorbs "heals" targets before regular heals it will show on healing done and other healers dont get the credit they might deserve for their work. But then, that needs to change.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Why does disc parse higher than holy in most cases? It's called padding meters with absorbs pretty much like paladins do with illuminated healing, if holy had absorbs it would be first as well or if you remove all the absorb healers on your raid.
    Wanna see the true healing each spec does? Unmerge absorbs from healing on your recount/skada.
    ^ this x1000. Although unmerging absorbs from effective healing done will make it unfair to the absorption class/specs.

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Holy is strong and is quite viable.
    Last edited by Frmercury; 2013-03-31 at 01:00 PM.

  16. #16
    The reason Blizzard spend so much time on disc priests is because while disc has been extremely good in pve, they have often sucked in pvp - so they have been trying hard to balance the specc between arena and raids.

    And it didn't really help they made the poor decision to give disc even more absorbs in the form of Spirit Shell.
    You know when people want you to tell them the truth? They lie.

  17. #17
    There is NOTHING wrong with holy. Lets not get into this like we did in 5.1 >_<


    Even method uses holy priests on a couple fights.

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    There is NOTHING wrong with holy. Lets not get into this like we did in 5.1 >_<


    Even method uses holy priests on a couple fights.
    I believe that's where the issue is.

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    There is NOTHING wrong with holy. Lets not get into this like we did in 5.1 >_<


    Even method uses holy priests on a couple fights.
    Chakra sucks. It makes us very ineffective at multitask heal both raid and spotheal tank/others. We also lack abilitys outside healing and we could sure use some utility useful for the raid beside HoH, LoF, feathers/B&S wich I find rather weak.

    Raidbots.com speaks for itself. Its not ok to be brought to one or two encounters.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    Chakra sucks. It makes us very ineffective at multitask heal both raid and spotheal tank/others. We also lack abilitys outside healing and we could sure use some utility useful for the raid beside HoH, LoF, feathers/B&S wich I find rather weak.

    Raidbots.com speaks for itself. Its not ok to be brought to one or two encounters.
    This.. it's the most annoying thing ever.

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