1. #1

    Elemental gems : 320 mastery vs 160 int

    My latest sims have been showing very interesting results, according to it mastery is now worth more than 1/2 of intellect which means using mastery gems would be a dps increase.

    Sim configuration :
    - length : 450sec +/- 20%
    - Light movement
    - 50k iterations
    - 4pT15

    PE/EotE
    Dps : 137887
    int : 4.43
    mastery : 2.48
    haste : 2.13
    crit : 1.85


    EB/EotE
    Dps : 140204
    int : 4.55
    mastery : 2.57
    haste : 2.24
    crit : 1.89

    Aoe with EotE
    dps : 566361
    int : 18.35
    mastery : 14.31
    haste : 12.64
    crit : 9.63

    I did a few sims with heavy movement to check if the trend is the same

    EB/EotE
    dps : 123760
    int : 3.96
    mastery : 2.02
    haste : 2.36
    crit : 1.70

    PE/EotE
    dps : 124586
    mastery : 2.00
    haste : 2.59
    crit : 1.76

    In heavy movement fights int is almost exactly worth twice what mastery is worth so gemming for 160int or for 80int/160mastery is the same but in light movement fights and no matter if you take PE or EB, intellect is worth less than twice what mastery is worth meaning that 80int/160mastery (in red sockets) and 320mastery gems (in yellow) the best gems.
    In addition, the latest version of simcraft gives mastery as the best secondary stat for aoe, by a large margin, and is worth almost as much as intellect.

    Here's my question : are you guys having the same results as I do ? Is it time to go banana on mastery ?

    Pros :
    - slight single target DPS increase (according to sims)
    - more LvB procs which means a lower CD on Ascendance
    - a noticeable aoe dps increase (with more 2p procs)

    Cons :
    - not perfect for PE
    - probably not the case with EM (didn't sim it since I'm not using it on any fight atm)
    Last edited by Recom; 2013-04-03 at 01:18 AM.

  2. #2
    Interesting, because I just got:

    PE/EoTE
    Int: 4.27
    Haste: 2.25
    Crit: 1.68
    Mastery: 1.67

    My stats with self buffs are: 22.24% haste, 13.85% crit and 46.15% mastery. No idea why haste got such value on my last sim.

    EB/EoTE
    Int: 4.54
    Haste: 1.81
    Mastery: 1.80
    Crit: 1.63
    Last edited by MakeMeLaugh; 2013-04-03 at 03:45 AM.

  3. #3
    Am I missing something but why in god's name would you gem mastery if you spec PE? Mastery is completely and utterly useless for your elemental.

  4. #4
    Yeah that's exactly what I said, it's not perfect for PE but it would still be a dps increase to do so.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormstrîke View Post
    Am I missing something but why in god's name would you gem mastery if you spec PE? Mastery is completely and utterly useless for your elemental.
    When pets scale with mastery they don't scale per the wording on your mastery, they have an internal sale factor multiplied by your mastery to get a damage increase.

  6. #6
    Recom, are you using a character with either 4-pc or the meta? Also, what trinkets does the simmed char have equipped?

    Regardless, it should be a DPS increase to get double mastery for the value of single Int at your ilvl, but as soon as you do your statweights will change. I'd recommend running a sim with int/mastery gemming against a regular int gemming sim and seeing what the difference in DPS and stat weights are.

  7. #7
    I hope not, I like casting fast and seeing big numbers over being a proc machine.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelangelo View Post
    Recom, are you using a character with either 4-pc or the meta? Also, what trinkets does the simmed char have equipped?

    Regardless, it should be a DPS increase to get double mastery for the value of single Int at your ilvl, but as soon as you do your statweights will change. I'd recommend running a sim with int/mastery gemming against a regular int gemming sim and seeing what the difference in DPS and stat weights are.
    I'm using the 4pT15 but not the meta (only 7 secrets atm...)

    Here's my char, note that the stats values I've posted in the OP were simmed with this very setup. I did a bunch of sims with int gems before (partially) regeming and the results were the same, IIRC the value of mastery actually went up when I started regeming.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryethe View Post
    When pets scale with mastery they don't scale per the wording on your mastery, they have an internal sale factor multiplied by your mastery to get a damage increase.
    @stormstrike: I completely misread your post as why would anyone would with a pet would go mastery vs. just shamans with eles. DERP.

    You are correct in that FE doesn't scale with Mastery.

    EDIT: Recom - Can you do a Mastery vs. Haste reforge plot? This should give us some more insight into what's going on.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Recom View Post
    I'm using the 4pT15 but not the meta (only 7 secrets atm...)

    Here's my char, note that the stats values I've posted in the OP were simmed with this very setup. I did a bunch of sims with int gems before (partially) regeming and the results were the same, IIRC the value of mastery actually went up when I started regeming.
    Lucky bugger. 4pT15 gives a boost to Mastery because overloads proc the bonus as well.

    Also, why spirit/mastery gems for blue sockets? Are there no better gems for blue sockets, considering you are reforging so much spirit/hit away anyways?
    Last edited by Michelangelo; 2013-04-03 at 11:05 PM.

  11. #11
    Yeah that's probably the real reason why mastery is so strong.

    I could replace the spirit/mastery gems with mastery/stamina but fuck that

  12. #12
    Hmm, this is interesting and something I have never thought of, will have to do some testing for sure.

  13. #13
    New gear, new sim (with reforge plots) !

    EB/EotE


    I'm not sure how to interpret that, reforging anything would be a dps loss it seems but what about the evolution of the value of mastery ? Anyway, int is almost worth 2x mastery again so maybe I'm getting close to some sort of soft "cap" ?
    Last edited by Recom; 2013-04-04 at 12:34 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Recom View Post
    New gear, new sim (with reforge plots) !

    EB/EotE

    I'm not sure how to interpret that, reforging anything would be a dps loss it seems but what about the evolution of the value of mastery ? Anyway, int is almost worth 2x mastery again so maybe I'm getting close to some sort of soft "cap" ?
    Yep it looks like at your gear level, gemming mastery was the way to go for your gear level, but at a certain point of disregarding Intellect in gemming, it becomes king again.

  15. #15
    Just because mastery is worth 1/2 of intellect doesn't mean you should assume gemming mastery is better than gemming intellect, that's not how scale factors work. When you trade massive chunks of stats like that the scale factors will be different afterwards and it may or may not come out as a gain.

    If you want to know which gemming strategy is better for you, you should create one profile of each and sim them against each other, not rely on scale factors.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
    Pawkets' Armory
    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Recom View Post
    I'm not sure how to interpret that, reforging anything would be a dps loss it seems but what about the evolution of the value of mastery ? Anyway, int is almost worth 2x mastery again so maybe I'm getting close to some sort of soft "cap" ?
    Repeat after me:

    There is no cap

    What you're seeing is the simple fact that you don't have enough mastery for Int > 2 x Mastery. In other words, as you increase Int, you increase Spellpower. This increases the value of Mastery (and Haste/Crit). Eventually it gets to the point where 2x Mastery > Int, so you then tweak your gem setup to slowly replace red Int gems with Orange Int/Mastery gems until it swings back the other way.

    You then want to keep tweaking things as you gear up, so that you're constantly balancing your gear around this point, except it's not a "point" like the usual haste breakpoints, but rather a constantly changing equivalence point where an additional X Int = 2X Mastery.

    It's also worth noting that when you see it switch from Int > 2x Mastery to Int < 2x Mastery that you're at most 1000 Int short of that actual swing point (as this is the default stat add value for working out weights)

  17. #17
    Yeah, I was reluctant to use the word cap hence the comas, sorry if that was misleading.

    Thanks for the explanation Bink, I had never thought about the link between int and secondary stats this way (it seems so obvious now).

    PS : there is no cap

  18. #18
    Ye, as soon as I get the 4pc and the new legendary meta gem, I switch back to EoE/EB and go full mastery.

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