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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenobaal View Post
    45 sec. CD and 8 sec. duration seems pretty stupid. At least 2 min. would be appropriate.
    Yeah, I think the main thing is the uptime on it; it's silly. It can be used EVERY time a team bursts with cds.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 07:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderWolf View Post
    I play a monk in pvp (though not necessarily well). I don't think that its broken or OP at all...huge shocker I'm sure. I mostly use him to cap conq points in arena vs playing for a serious rating. When I hit RoP you can do the following:

    1) Stun me so I cannot move around and keep you in the bubble
    2) Root me so that I can't move around (assuming trinket and nimble brew are both on CD)
    3) Attack me from outside of the bubble...cause really...who doesn't have a ranged attack now (rogues anyone?).
    4) CC me in multiple other ways (Polymorph, hex, fear, etc).

    Before RoP, outside of leg sweep monks had no way to avoid being consistently stun locked by two melee and just burst down. It was a needed change. I just don't see why people are crying to nerf it when you have multiple ways to counter it.
    Rop-->spear hand strike-->leg sweep-->fist of fury-->disarm-->20 seconds-->RoP

    Taken by itself RoP isn't a big deal, with EVERYTHING else a monk has to control it can be a big deal.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Rop-->spear hand strike-->leg sweep-->fist of fury-->disarm-->20 seconds-->RoP

    Taken by itself RoP isn't a big deal, with EVERYTHING else a monk has to control it can be a big deal.
    RoP and Leg Sweep are on the same tier of talents.

    Spear Hand Strike (if used as a 'cc') is only a 2 second blanket.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    RoP and Leg Sweep are on the same tier of talents.

    Spear Hand Strike (if used as a 'cc') is only a 2 second blanket.
    He forgot paralysis. There you go, no need for leg sweep any more and it lasts longer.

    But the problem here is less "ridiculous monk control" as much as it is "ridiculous cc chains". Because any class that can pull off ridiculous cc chains is overpowered as fuck and is able to single-handedly determine outcomes of matches leaving other classes in the dust.

    That's why warriors were overpowered to shit with a 20 second shockwave. That's why mages will ALWAYS be overpowered. That's why cheap shot -> kidney shot -> paralytic poison is overpowered.

    While a lot of the abilities I've listed are different in that some break on damage and others don't, a cc chain is a cc chain and can help you either control an off-target OR net you a kill with the ones that don't break on damage.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-04-03 at 07:53 PM.
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  4. #44
    Actually came against Rogue / WW Monk as a DK / Disc Priest and I was either Stunned (FoF, Kidney, Cheap) or Disarmed (RoP, Dismantle, Grapple Weapon) for atleast... 80% of the fight and I couldnt get near enough damage to kill either of them with the amount of mobility each has.

    Really a game killer, just like blood fear - will be gone soon.

    Btw love this mod that's trying to justify why RoP is acceptable, keep it up it's funny to see what else you're gonna come up with next.
    i require ham.

  5. #45
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Which mod are you talking about because the RoP change I see on the ptr looks more like a buff then a nerf to me.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    He forgot paralysis. There you go, no need for leg sweep any more and it lasts longer.
    Actually that cc chain would never work, a disarm does nothing for casters and ShS does nothing against Melee. You would also have to be WW to have FoF.

    And leg sweep really depends on rng, you can be on someone and use it and it does not even hit them.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Actually that cc chain would never work, a disarm does nothing for casters and ShS does nothing against Melee. You would also have to be WW to have FoF.

    And leg sweep really depends on rng, you can be on someone and use it and it does not even hit them.
    First: Disarm for casters costs ~18% pvp power, nto to mention the silence, which is now being buffed to a 3 second instant and 3 second on cast, as opposed to only on an offensive cast.
    Second: I'm a caster, so SHS sucks for me
    3rd: I'm talking about WW

    Sorry about the RoP and Leg Sweep confusion, add in paralysis anywhere and you have someone locked down for an extended period of time, especially with the buff.

    Previously healers were unaffected by RoP except for losing pvp power when disarmed. Now they are silenced for 3 seconds, then 3 more on a cast, plus either a 2 second silence or a 5 second interrupt, followed by a paralysis. It's difficult to kite a monk due to their mobility. So what you have is ~12 second (minimums here 3 +3 +2 +4) cc chain from one person. And that's leaving off Fists of Fury.

    As it is RoP is nasty, especially with such a short cd. The buff is unnecessary.

  8. #48
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    First: Disarm for casters costs ~18% pvp power, nto to mention the silence, which is now being buffed to a 3 second instant and 3 second on cast, as opposed to only on an offensive cast.
    Second: I'm a caster, so SHS sucks for me
    3rd: I'm talking about WW

    Sorry about the RoP and Leg Sweep confusion, add in paralysis anywhere and you have someone locked down for an extended period of time, especially with the buff.

    Previously healers were unaffected by RoP except for losing pvp power when disarmed. Now they are silenced for 3 seconds, then 3 more on a cast, plus either a 2 second silence or a 5 second interrupt, followed by a paralysis. It's difficult to kite a monk due to their mobility. So what you have is ~12 second (minimums here 3 +3 +2 +4) cc chain from one person. And that's leaving off Fists of Fury.

    As it is RoP is nasty, especially with such a short cd. The buff is unnecessary.
    Yes but everyone of those are in melee range instead of range, except paralysis and disarm, and to get the shs silence you have to be in front of the target. Getting this cc chain off is not easy by any means, if you know how to counter it, it is easy. And it is not that along putting other classes cc chains in perspective.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Yes but everyone of those are in melee range instead of range, except paralysis and disarm, and to get the shs silence you have to be in front of the target. Getting this cc chain off is not easy by any means, if you know how to counter it, it is easy. And it is not that along putting other classes cc chains in perspective.
    I agree in concept, especially with the way RoP is live. My problem is the buffs it is getting make this chain easier to set up. You've got 6 seconds of the healer being silenced, in which your partner is damaging one of the others, you KNOW that the healer is going to cast after this six seconds, so you ShS as soon as the RoP is off. Following this you paralyze.

    It's not hard to set up with the mandatory silence that RoP is getting.

    and, again, the 45 second cd of RoP is what I have a problem with, live or as the data-mined version.

  10. #50
    The Patient Ramaloce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Previously healers were unaffected by RoP except for losing pvp power when disarmed. Now they are silenced for 3 seconds, then 3 more on a cast, plus either a 2 second silence or a 5 second interrupt, followed by a paralysis. It's difficult to kite a monk due to their mobility. So what you have is ~12 second (minimums here 3 +3 +2 +4) cc chain from one person. And that's leaving off Fists of Fury.

    As it is RoP is nasty, especially with such a short cd. The buff is unnecessary.
    The bold part isn't true for healers. "In addition, enemies who attack or cast spells on allies within the ring of peace will be disarmed and silenced for an additional 3 sec." That additional silence part is if casting spells on the monk's allies, not the healer victim stuck in the 'ring'. Yes they will still get the initial 3 second silence, which makes me hope that it DR's with this change.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
    Ring of Peace now has a base 3 second blanket silence with a 3 sec additional silence if the player casts inside the ring.

    Looking at 5.3, not live. It says "if the player casts inside the ring."

  12. #52
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    I admit with the exception of paladins and druids, I usually have no problem single handedly locking a healer down so they can't do anything while my partner destroys the other player. Helpful spells (heals) do not get silenced in the live version of RoP. I don't mind the change personally...just couldn't really see why people were getting so mad about the ability itself. A monk does have a lot of cc/control to use on a healer, but that's what your arena partner/other players in BGs are for.

    I dunno...I think there are way to many CCs in this game as it is. Was in an arena the other day and was feared/stunned for a long time with my trinket being down. Maybe a good answer would be to make all forms of CC/control share one DR.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramaloce View Post
    The bold part isn't true for healers. "In addition, enemies who attack or cast spells on allies within the ring of peace will be disarmed and silenced for an additional 3 sec." That additional silence part is if casting spells on the monk's allies, not the healer victim stuck in the 'ring'. Yes they will still get the initial 3 second silence, which makes me hope that it DR's with this change.
    Again, this is datamined, but right now the datamined spell silences healers and dps alike.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 08:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderWolf View Post
    I admit with the exception of paladins and druids, I usually have no problem single handedly locking a healer down so they can't do anything while my partner destroys the other player. Helpful spells (heals) do not get silenced in the live version of RoP. I don't mind the change personally...just couldn't really see why people were getting so mad about the ability itself. A monk does have a lot of cc/control to use on a healer, but that's what your arena partner/other players in BGs are for.

    I dunno...I think there are way to many CCs in this game as it is. Was in an arena the other day and was feared/stunned for a long time with my trinket being down. Maybe a good answer would be to make all forms of CC/control share one DR.
    Maybe not one DR, but fewer for sure.

  14. #54
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    I agree in concept, especially with the way RoP is live. My problem is the buffs it is getting make this chain easier to set up. You've got 6 seconds of the healer being silenced, in which your partner is damaging one of the others, you KNOW that the healer is going to cast after this six seconds, so you ShS as soon as the RoP is off. Following this you paralyze.

    It's not hard to set up with the mandatory silence that RoP is getting.

    and, again, the 45 second cd of RoP is what I have a problem with, live or as the data-mined version.
    But yet it is still avoidable like most monk cc,it is not like you are just standing there, you are able to move. This is one of the reason monks are not good in arena, very easy to predict. If I roll behind you you know that I will be trying to paralyze you, if I am in front for you we are trying to silence you and etc. A monk preys on the people who have not learned about monks, it is our greatest strength.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Again, this is datamined, but right now the datamined spell silences healers and dps alike.
    *cough*
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Last edited by apepi; 2013-04-03 at 08:48 PM.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    But yet it is still avoidable like most monk cc,it is not like you are just standing there, you are able to move. This is one of the reason monks are not good in arena, very easy to predict. If I roll behind you you know that I will be trying to paralyze you, if I am in front for you we are trying to silence you and etc. A monk preys on the people who have not learned about monks, it is our greatest strength.
    My team still kills monks, on live at least, it's just freaking annoying. RoP's uptime gives monk teams an easy way out of burst combos.

    I think the buff is unnecessary; the ability is annoying as it is, but the buff makes it too much. I'd rather have to deal with more damage from the monk than more annoyance.

    Edit: I see that, if that's the way it goes live I'm less concerned. I still don't like it. I play MLS, so caster cleave, which means we get the short end of the stick from RoP, especially on certain maps, like Blade's Edge, where we can't spread out as easily.
    Last edited by Thirtyrock; 2013-04-03 at 08:54 PM. Reason: Pic from Apepi

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    My team still kills monks, on live at least, it's just freaking annoying. RoP's uptime gives monk teams an easy way out of burst combos.

    I think the buff is unnecessary; the ability is annoying as it is, but the buff makes it too much. I'd rather have to deal with more damage from the monk than more annoyance.
    It depends on what class you play, if it buffed for some, but it is nerfed for others. For melee it will help them for caster it will hurt them.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  17. #57
    The Patient Ramaloce's Avatar
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    Hate to repeat myself but if you read the new tooltip in full rather then just the datamined summery:

    "Forms a sanctuary around the friendly target, instantly silencing and disarming all enemies for 3 sec. In addition, enemies who attack or cast spells on allies within the ring of peace will be disarmed and silenced for an additional 3 sec. Ring of Peace lasts for 8 sec."

    As you can see as long as the healers spells are NOT targeting it's enemies, with say healing spells you will not be harmed by the additional silence.

    Edit: What has me very interested in this change is the initial silence part, which would most likely make it fall into the Normal silence DR.
    Last edited by Ramaloce; 2013-04-03 at 09:09 PM. Reason: Typos + new thought.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramaloce View Post
    Hate to repeat myself but if you read the new tooltip in full rather then just the datamined summery:

    "Forms a sanctuary around the friendly target, instantly silencing and disarming all enemies for 3 sec. In addition, enemies who attack or cast spells on allies within the ring of peace will be disarmed and silenced for an additional 3 sec. Ring of Peace lasts for 8 sec."

    As you can see as long as the healers spells are NOT targeting it's enemies, with say healing spells you will not be harmed by the additional silence.

    Edit: What has me very interested in this change is the initial silence part, which would most likely make it fall into the Normal silence DR.
    It is worded wierdly so you would actually have to test it out to see what would happen. I would like the first part to be on dr, but the rest of it to not be on dr.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  19. #59
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    how about remove ring of peace but give us a way to escape cc -.-

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    how about remove ring of peace but give us a way to escape cc -.-
    Nimble Brew.....everyone gets it next patch.
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