1. #1
    Stood in the Fire SaltLakeAtrocity's Avatar
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    Empirical Affliction Trinket Ranks?

    I'm really not trying to make another Trinket thread, cause I'm well aware there's more than enough of those already. But for those of us who don't have time to make individual builds for each trinket type to run through simcraft; and with work and classes lately I honestly don't; I need to find a decent rule-of-thumb empirical trinket rank guide. And for this purpose, every single one of those threads has been absolutely worthless.

    Being a theorycrafter for several years I understand there's variables at work that make trinket rankings not 'empirical', but this is ridiculous. Every single source I can find lists a completely different hierarchy with no consistency between guides. I've never seen anything like it before.

    Currently have 510 LotC, Valor Trinket, and 522 Wushoolay's at my disposal. Currently ignoring Wushoolay's as it's ranked low in some guides and high in others, and being a trinket with hit rating on it i can't just keep it as a temporary "equip under certain circumstances" trinket.
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  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Serpent's Avatar
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    Usually, Wushoolay's and Breath of the Hydra are considered BiS for Affliction. Alternatively, Unerring Vision + Cha'ye works really good as well (especially for multidots).

    Destruction doesn't like Unerring Vision as much, and any combination of the 3 others should work IIRC.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire SaltLakeAtrocity's Avatar
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    You say Wushoolay's and BotH like they're a combo, and I've heard that before, but those trinkets don't have the same ranks as standalone trinkets? I have no access to BotH as of yet, so that diminishes the usefulness of Wushoolay's? And alot of the time the "BiS for tier" don't show how T15 stack up against T14 trinkets.

    And if it is better than my current trinkets; which does it trump, LotC or Valor trinket?
    Last edited by SaltLakeAtrocity; 2013-04-03 at 05:02 AM.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SaltLakeAtrocity View Post
    You say Wushoolay's and BotH like they're a combo, and I've heard that before, but those trinkets don't have the same ranks as standalone trinkets? I have no access to BotH as of yet, so that diminishes the usefulness of Wushoolay's? And alot of the time the "BiS for tier" don't show how T15 stack up against T14 trinkets.

    And if it is better than my current trinkets; which does it trump, LotC or Valor trinket?
    The trinkets are not bad on their own IMO. I would use Wuusholay over LotC, but they really work well with a certain combo, like DanielBrems said.
    Wuusholay + BotH because both have a 20 second duration and Cha'ye + Unerring Vision because the proc-rate is increased by critical strikes.

  5. #5
    Pandaren Monk Serpent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltLakeAtrocity View Post
    You say Wushoolay's and BotH like they're a combo, and I've heard that before, but those trinkets don't have the same ranks as standalone trinkets? I have no access to BotH as of yet, so that diminishes the usefulness of Wushoolay's? And alot of the time the "BiS for tier" don't show how T15 stack up against T14 trinkets.

    And if it is better than my current trinkets; which does it trump, LotC or Valor trinket?
    Valor trinket, I would say. It isn't really that good.
    Wushoolay's and BotH don't really gain that much from being paired (like Unerring + Cha'ye do) - they're just amazing trinkets. Unerring and Cha'ye are slightly worse, but the synergy makes up for it. Hence the "go either WFC + BotH or Unerring + Cha'ye".

  6. #6
    A thing to note is that the BOTH proc is 20 seconds, which is the time it takes for WFC to get fully charged. So this will allow for a supercharged refresh before both trinkets expire. They are likely to proc at the same time, right as you start an encounter, but from then on I don't really know if they will ever collide again?

    I am certainly hoping to get BOTH, it's an amazing trinket.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Filth the Warlock View Post
    A thing to note is that the BOTH proc is 20 seconds, which is the time it takes for WFC to get fully charged. So this will allow for a supercharged refresh before both trinkets expire. They are likely to proc at the same time, right as you start an encounter, but from then on I don't really know if they will ever collide again?

    I am certainly hoping to get BOTH, it's an amazing trinket.
    Absolutely random. You can math out the likelihood of it happening, but it comes down to the point that the more powerful proc -Wush- (if they don't line up) can wear off before BotH procs, and you'll get most of the ticks out before needing to refresh dots because Breath is wearing off. And when they do line up, with Lust/DS:M, it's *fantastic*.

    Also basically the beginning of any fight after a theory-talk or break, pop that haunt on the opening and everything procs... and with that haste buff up, mmmm refreshing dots at 10-stack Wush with BotH active, under DS:M, with Lust/heroism. The other DPSers' despair, so delicious.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-04-04 at 09:33 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    despair, so delicious.
    What boss says that again? ^_^

    I know it's random, but do they have the same RPPM value? hmmmsss gotta dig that up.

    WFC: Real PPM: 0.56 (22 Seconds ICD)
    BOTH: Real PPM: 0.50 (No ICD)

    @ http://wow.gameguyz.com/news/patch-5...inkets-iv.html
    Last edited by Filth the Warlock; 2013-04-04 at 01:59 PM.

  9. #9
    i got the wushoolay trinket yesterday and i did some testing(mainly boss dummy and lfr) and one of the things ive noticed is that i almost always get 2 procs in a row and then no procs for a while and then 2 procs in a row again. the uptime differs a lot, ive tried having 20ish% uptime and ive tried having 40% uptime on it, so on average its prolly closer to 30% uptime which i think is excellent.

  10. #10
    If you are MS Aff ignore what the sims and rankings tell you about Wushoolay's. I can tell you from personal experience that it is hands down a staple to Aff for this tier. If you are Aff and you don't use Wushoo there is seriously something wrong with you. I did the math and a 10 stack of the normal mode is more int than all my other procs combined minus a potion but you should be potting once you see a 10 stack during lust or execute. I'm an eng tailor so one trinket proc possessing more int than BotH, lightwave, synapse, and jade spirit combined is absurd for super charging dots even without the procs lining up. As soon as I see it proc, I hold a shard or pray for NF and I have yet to miss a 10 stack reset in a week of raiding with it. There is no debate, Wushoo is god mode for Aff.
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  11. #11
    i think the question is it more 'god mode' then 100% crit+xxxx intel proc of cha-yes?

  12. #12
    What would be better full dots of DS or full stacks of Wushoolay's?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by warlockSTAR View Post
    What would be better full dots of DS or full stacks of Wushoolay's?
    Wush, unless you've got a whole lot of other int procs up... but when would this be an issue? I mean, I guess if you had 10-stack Wush dots ticking and DS:M came off CD afterwards... but given that even with int procs the DS:M wouldn't be *that* much stronger you'd still be maximizing haunt/MG uptime and waiting until it was convenient/before buffs dropped/pandemic window to refresh dots anyway.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Wush, unless you've got a whole lot of other int procs up... but when would this be an issue? I mean, I guess if you had 10-stack Wush dots ticking and DS:M came off CD afterwards... but given that even with int procs the DS:M wouldn't be *that* much stronger you'd still be maximizing haunt/MG uptime and waiting until it was convenient/before buffs dropped/pandemic window to refresh dots anyway.
    The incremental gain of Int from Wushoolay's isn't actually as huge as you are all claiming it to be. With full procs running I can refresh dots with a 3 stack of Wushoolay's and it still isn't better to refresh it at a 10 stack.

    That said; it is a good trinket for Affliction - but I can see it in no way beating out the Lei Shen trinket + Breath of the Hydra with a haste stacked build. Even using the Lei Shen trinket + Cha-Ye's is an extremely potent combination since they work VERY well together in combination.

    Taking off my weapon and H-LotC (to avoid outside procs that would affect this);

    1. Apply dots with no buffs
    2. Apply dots with DS up (buffed)
    3. Wushoolay's procs -- at 4 stacks, UA becomes stronger than a DS buffed UA -- at 5 stacks Corruption becomes stronger than a DS buffed Corruption -- at 7 stacks Agony becomes stronger than a DS buffed Agony

    1. Apply dots with no buffs
    2. Wushoolay's procs -- becomes stronger (all 3 dots) at 3 stacks, reapply dots -- Wushoolay's reaches 6 stacks and becomes stronger than the 3 stack buffed dots, reapply -- Wushoolay's reaches 10 stacks and becomes stronger than the 3 stack buffed dots, reapply
    3. Use DS -- is NOT beneficial to reapply with ONLY DS

    1. Apply dots with no buffs
    2. Wushoolay's procs -- becomes stronger (all 3 dots) at 3 stacks, reapply dots -- Wushoolay's reaches 6 stacks and becomes stronger than the 3 stack buffed dots, reapply -- Wushoolay's reaches 10 stacks and becomes stronger than the 3 stack buffed dots, reapply
    3. Use DS + Engy gloves + Berserking -- is still NOT beneficial to reapply dots over a 10 stack of Wushoolay's

    Even adding in Jade Spirit to DS + Engy gloves + Berserking does not make it better than a 10 stack of Wushoolay's.

    Bear in mind that this is without flask/food/SP buff/haste buff/etc. However, the ramp up time and attention to detail you need to maintain for this trinket to be used at its highest potential is a very large hassle and it doesn't mesh very well with any of the other 522 trinkets comparatively. However, if you can get all of the trinkets you probably should and play with them yourself to find out what suits you best.

  15. #15
    I'm not overvaluing it; if you look at the question I was responding to, it was a query as to whether DS:M dots are more powerful than 10-stack Wush dots, which they are not. Consider second that you can haunt/MG channel those Wush-powered dots and still apply DS:M dots before DS:M wears off but when those Wush dots have little time remaining, and nothing is lost. Incrementally, the Wush trinket gains 10% of its power every 2 seconds (predictably!) which is part of what makes it so great. I'm not advocating updating dots every increment or saying that a 10-stack Wush is stronger than 7-stack Wush + hydra (it's not).

    I have to admit I'm somewhat skeptical about applying dots at 3/6/10 stacks rather than "as needed" and at 10 stacks, from your setup above. I also don't see why you would run hydra + UVLS over UVLS+Wush, since that seems to imply Hydra > Wush when Wush allows for more powerful dots on nearly the same buff uptime.

  16. #16
    Mainly the reason behind using Hydra as Affliction is because it procs off dots (MG replicated ones as well) + the natural large amount of haste on the trinket increasing the proc chance of UVLS, whereas there are a lot of wasted stats on Wushoolay's (even after reforging) since you're not able to dump all of the hit from the rest of your gear as well.

    I'm not saying Wushoolay's is a bad trinket, by any means, but it is a trinket that you need to pay attention to in order to use it to its maximum potential (reapplying dots at the optimal stack, as many times/on as many targets possible). Whereas you are able to have Hydra with the same procrate (honestly a little higher since you have just that much more haste) in combination with 100% crit dots is just not comparable.

    Really, we're saying the same thing with different words. Is Wushoolay's a viable trinket? Yes, most definitely. Are the other trinkets also viable? Absolutely! In the end you should get what you can but in practice everyone I know with UVLS absolutely crushes me while I only have Wushoolay's.

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