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  1. #1

    Diet for losing fat but gaining mass?

    I've been going to the gym 2-3 days a week for about a month and a half now and I'm loving the feeling I get after a good workout etc. I typically do 15-20 minutes of cardio each session then do a full body workout. I am, however, a bit confused as far as what my diet should be. Allow me to elaborate:

    I'm around 5'8/5'9(don't remember exactly), 140lbs. I'm by no means fat; in fact I'm quite skinny. The problem is, I have a bit of jiggle in the pectoral and stomach areas. Abs/pectorals aren't showing up in a toned definition, etc. My end goal is to achieve an athletic body, but my arms are very skinny, so I'd like to build them up a bit in the process. I was thinking my goal would be around 150lbs of muscle with a very low body fat percentage.

    My confusion comes in when it comes to choosing a diet tailored to my specific goal. I have only read about two diets which come off as polar opposites to one another. The first diet is basically for putting on weight, which I'd like to do for my arms for more muscle. The second diet is for losing weight, which I'd like to do in my stomach and pectoral regions in order to tone them. So I suppose my question is; which diet should I go with? If neither, is there some sort of balance between the two that I should aim for? I know you're supposed to eat roughly your weight in grams of protein each day, etc. This is all just very confusing to me. I would be incredibly thankful for any insight and help someone would be willing to give me!

    I hope I explained that all clearly enough.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal
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    This question would be better suited for a site like bodybuilding.com or something similar, however I will attempt to help.
    One of the first rules of weightlifting is that you cannot gain mass and lose weight at the same time. I am sure while growing up you have heard that muscle weighs more than fat and putting on muscle will cause your fat to dissapear. This is not true! You are going to have to pick!

    Simply put to gain mass you need to:

    1. Eat a HEALTHY diet that is greater than your BMR(Base Medabolic Rate)+ the calories you burn while working out. A believe a healthy calorie increase for a beginner would be 400 calories more a day (or around there)

    2. Find a weightlifting program that focuses on low reps and as much muscle as possible.

    3. Protein and Creatine supplements would be a good idea.

    Essentially that is it you just have to do whatever sets you have that day with the correct form and just keep pushing through.
    Tip: If your focus is building muscle you want to keep cardio to a max of two days!

    Now to lose weight you essentially follow the same idea:
    1. Find a healthy diet and cut your caloric intake...Find your BMR+workout and eat 400-500 calories less than that a day.

    2. Find a weightlifting program that is high in cardio and reps...these will focus less on weight and more on reps in the teens.

    3. Supplements help you to maintain the nutrients you cut while dropping weight (again protein, creatine, and a multivitamin are good ideas).

    In the end it is all about finding a good program and being committed to it. Personally I like to cut first then bulk, however just pick the one you w
    ant the most, but do not try to gain muscle and lose weight. All you will do is be discourage that you are not going anywhere.Along with this I cannot stress how important a proper diet is, especially for losing weight. A six-pack is found in the kitchen not the weight room.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 01:56 AM ----------

    If that is not clear I will try and clear it up. Its 2am here so :P

  3. #3
    Do this http://www.muscleandstrength.com/wor...g-program.html
    And cardio 1 or 2 of the resting days
    Warm up with rowing machine low weight 3min
    Walking fast with incline 5min
    spin ur arms back and forth
    u can also add a warm up for every exercise do the planned exercise with LOW weight maybe 10-15times shake ur arms and keep warm to prevent injury

    Oh yeah and then diet..
    Well buy protein shake whey -80 or whey -100 the ones that advertise with low carbs.
    Kreatin, I like Krea-Bolic (don't follow the rec dose take even less 3x on the morning 3x before workout
    Breakfeast 5pieces of bread with ham and maybe a vegetable such as tomato or salad 1x protein drink
    Breakfeast number 2 aprox 2-3hours after number 1 the same and 1x protein drink
    Lunch a can of tuna
    lunch nr 2 bread with something^^

    Workout timeee

    After workout EAT! important to do this in a time frame of 30min after workout.
    A bigger protein drink chicken and rice! ALOT!! (make the chicken before ur workout)

    depending on how late i'm up i eat chicken once again 1 or 2x times.

    I suck at this myself but SLEEPING is very! important!

    This will make u bigger and thiner if u dont lay on the coach each day every day tho.. -_-
    Last edited by anabolicz; 2013-04-03 at 07:42 AM. Reason: Diet

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  4. #4
    Dreadlord
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    What you are talking about is basicly Leangaining. http://www.leangains.com/

    This is the site of a Norwegian nutritional consultant, magazine writer and personal trainer. His Leangains guide is pretty good, but its quite strict and it all comes down to if you have the willpower to actually stick to the program.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal Wiizper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deldavala View Post
    What you are talking about is basicly Leangaining. http://www.leangains.com/

    This is the site of a Norwegian nutritional consultant, magazine writer and personal trainer. His Leangains guide is pretty good, but its quite strict and it all comes down to if you have the willpower to actually stick to the program.
    Hes Swedish, sigh....
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  6. #6
    Banned Zildjian's Avatar
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    You shouldn't do cardio and resistance in the same workout.

    If you want to make the most out of your time in the Gym focus on one thing at a time. For example.


    Monday: Cardio
    Tuesday: Weights
    Wednesday: Cardio
    Thursday: Weights
    Friday: Cardio
    Saturday: Weights
    Sunday: REST

    OR if you can't workout six days a week then do Cardio in the morning, weights in the evening.

    It really is best to separate the two so you can focus all your power on one or the other. You will still gain mass and lose fat but you will do it faster this way.

    Try to work on a different muscle group as well. A full body workout isn't exactly ideal. It reminds me when I see gym newcomers walk around the gym in a circle doing a couple of sets on every machine. That's not the way to do it. Work on a major muscle group along with a minor muscle group in the same workout (EG: Chest and Triceps). This way you can again focus all your purpose and energy efficiently and you're not wearing out the other muscles in your body.

    On the Cardio days I recommend doing some sort of high intensity interval training. (E.G 3 minutes at full pace. 30 second rest. repeat)
    Skipping is great for this.

    As for your diet, you should eat a healthy well balanced meal that provides a lot of energy. After your workout, have a protein shake (whey) and a banana.

    Nutrition and exercise is a fairly complex subject, but I recommend you taking a look at this book. It's fairly short and very informative. It dispels a lot of the common myths on fitness and nutrition.
    Bigger, Leaner, Stronger by Michael Matthews

    I can't provide the link as I don't have that privilege yet.

    Good luck

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deldavala View Post
    What you are talking about is basicly Leangaining. http://www.leangains.com/

    This is the site of a Norwegian nutritional consultant, magazine writer and personal trainer. His Leangains guide is pretty good, but its quite strict and it all comes down to if you have the willpower to actually stick to the program.
    It's called Intermittent Fasting. I highly, highly recommend this.

    Losing fat in the lower stomach is really hard for (most) men once they fuck up and drink too much or eat too much. You are going to have to sacrifice some muscle gain to lose weight because doing both simultaneously is difficult. Difficult in that yes you are going to be able to do both but you aren't going to see good gains in muscle mass since you'll be in the caloric deficit. There are three main things you can try. One, and probably the most important is, be in the caloric deficit. Take in less calories in the day as you would throughout a normal day but eating right and healthy. You can lose weight eating some shitty foods but they provide no benefit to you gaining muscle. If you really want to do both you are going to have to eat like a fucking champ all day. Two doing some cardio straight after your workout (very important). Not running or jogging but just at a brisk pace of walking. At 5'9, 3 to 3.2 mph should feel like a brisk walk for you. Go for a good 30 minutes right after you spent 45-50 min of weight lifting. Then on your off days you can do some swimming, biking, etc for a little more cardio for good cardiovascular health if you want to but it isn't needed. Three, try Intermittent Fasting. It's been going mainstream for the last few years and it's really taking off. The Leangains website is a great way to start educating yourself.
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  8. #8
    Banned Zildjian's Avatar
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    Intermittent Fasting really isn't needed in my opinion.

    Just eat normally, healthily and follow the advice from the book I provided. No need to make things more complicated. While the theory of fitness and nutrition is complex, in practical terms, it's really quite simple. This industry has a habit of making things more difficult than they need be (mostly due to fad diets and fitness magazines feeding you a ton of bollocks in order for you to buy their supplements).

  9. #9
    Explosive cardio like sprinting will make you burn fat. Prolonged cardio like long-distance running will burn fat and muscle. That's why runners are really skinny/lean. I run a mile and mix in mountain climbers, pushups, and squat jacks after every 1/10 lap.

  10. #10
    Protein, protein and more protein. You should be consuming (guessing) about 150g of protein daily, but only about 30 in a single sitting.

  11. #11
    Field Marshal Wiizper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeuseason View Post
    Protein, protein and more protein. You should be consuming (guessing) about 150g of protein daily, but only about 30 in a single sitting.
    Wrong. Doesnt matter how much protein you get in a meal.
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  12. #12
    Banned Zildjian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeuseason View Post
    Protein, protein and more protein. You should be consuming (guessing) about 150g of protein daily, but only about 30 in a single sitting.
    Some scientists say you can only effectively use 50-60g of protein in one sitting. Some say you can eat as much as you want.

    To be honest, it doesn't really matter. You're not a big bloke, so you don't need to force protein down your throat.

  13. #13
    Well for gaining mass you can use any food which is rich in protein and other things.. like dairy products and some oily food... but you also have to check your cholesterol.... and for losing fat you have to do exercises very hardly.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Delevicton View Post
    I've been going to the gym 2-3 days a week for about a month and a half now. I am, however, a bit confused as far as what my diet should be.
    Well that's a very short amount of time to get results it takes a very long time, A month you might see slight results but it takes years to see GREAT results if your diet and training is properly executed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Delevicton View Post
    I'm around 5'8/5'9(don't remember exactly), 140lbs. I'm by no means fat; in fact I'm quite skinny. The problem is, I have a bit of jiggle in the pectoral and stomach areas. Abs/pectorals aren't showing up in a toned definition, etc.
    You cant spot reduce fat you can only reduce it as a whole if people tell you other wise they are lying to either sell you a product or some kind of training program most likely or just have no idea what they are even talking about, Fat part of your body and can be reduced as a whole as its basically the same organism, Well to say you "can't" spot reduce is also true and false since you "can" get surgery for liposuction which is technically a spot reduction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delevicton View Post
    My confusion comes in when it comes to choosing a diet tailored to my specific goal. I have only read about two diets which come off as polar opposites to one another. The first diet is basically for putting on weight, which I'd like to do for my arms for more muscle. The second diet is for losing weight, which I'd like to do in my stomach and pectoral regions in order to tone them. So I suppose my question is; which diet should I go with? If neither, is there some sort of balance between the two that I should aim for? I know you're supposed to eat roughly your weight in grams of protein each day, etc. This is all just very confusing to me. I would be incredibly thankful for any insight and help someone would be willing to give me!

    I hope I explained that all clearly enough.
    Don't just build muscle on your arms... you will look disproportional and DON'T forget LEG DAY ! I cant stress that enough as you probably see at the gym some big guys have a good or great upper body but skinny chicken legs, So don't forget to work your legs as well and don't just focus arms you probably will end up disproportional.

    For your diet since your fairly new to lifting you are in the noob zone ! which is a good thing since your body isn't used to anything like this you can build muscle and burn fat at a moderate rate, People say it can't be done but that is true and false if you never lifted before its possible but for veteran's who've been lifting and training for years its gain or lose one or the other cant do both.

    Just eat healthy and more calories for gaining mass and remember to meet your macro nutrients.
    Last edited by Souichirou; 2013-04-04 at 05:29 PM.

  15. #15
    Bulking requires calorie surplus. Cutting requires calorie deficit.

    Technically, you can't cut and bulk at the same time. You can lean bulk which essentially means that you're maintaining a low body fat retention while you bulk. But in order to cut, you have to use more calories than you take in which forces the body to canabalize your fat stores for energy and building blocks. In order to bulk, you've got to take in a mass amount of calories (like 4k+, give or take) and want all of those calories going towards your muscle building. If you're doing enough cardio to put yourself in the negative while bulking, you're essentially cheating yourself on the building process and, thus, not getting the maximum out of what you're wanting.

    Its better to just do a clean and lean bulk for a bit and then do a quick cut.

  16. #16
    Wow, there's a lot of misinformation here. OP, I recommend going to another site that specializes in this sort of thing because you are getting tons of wrong info here.

    First of all, it's been proven your body can only absorb around 30-40 grams of protein in a sitting. Secondly, the notion of eating a gram of protein per pound of weight is wrong it's more like .60 give or take. Yes, you do need protein but not as much as people are suggesting. Also, you can lose weight and gain mass. Yes, intermittent fasting can be good if you do it right. No you can't lose weight at specific spots, you lose it across your entire body and losing it in the belly is the hardest. Don't listen to the above poster talking about eating 4k+ calories. That's a common myth saying that you need to eat big to gain big. That's how you get fat. Yes, your arms will be bigger because you are fatter than you were before not because it's muscle.

    But yeah, go someplace besides MMO-Champ for this info, you'll get a lot of bad info here.

  17. #17
    You don't need science for it. Just eat and train, mmh? In any case, I don't think you should overthink it or eat something that is specifically tailored according to some fitness "guru" or desk expert. A lot of it is very inapplicable to real life and much is said without love for the listener and with a large sense of arrogance in the face of the great unknowns we have about many things. There are few things that can be said that would be applicable to your situation whatever it is and it is hard to say something that one does not know for sure will not hurt you. Just basic exercise will make you lose fat and gain muscle mass. Of course, those can be done in healthy ways or in unhealthy ways. For a diet, you don't need much more than what your body tells you it needs. Then always surround yourself with trusted people and with knowledge.

    Here are two quotes that might be helpful (again, I don't know whether they are - they might as well hurt you if you should happen to follow their routes to whatever degrees - they may not be applicable to your situation again f.ex.):

    Despise no new accident in your body, but ask opinion of it.... There is a wisdom in this beyond the rules of physic. A man's observation, what he finds good and of what he finds hurt of, is the best physic to preserve health. ~Francis Bacon

    Everyone should be his own physician. We ought to assist and not force nature. Eat with moderation what agrees with your constitution. Nothing is good for the body but what we can digest. What medicine can produce digestion? Exercise. What will recruit strength? Sleep. What will alleviate incurable ills? Patience. ~Voltaire

    In many modern health books, especially since it has become a fad in the western world, you will find advice that is beyond the knowledge of the writer. A good modern medicine is sometimes if it cures 90% of people, leaves 5% of more or less hurt and kills 5%, then that is better than the last ones and therefore "good". For those 5% of people it kills, it wasn't very good! Modern medicine is very statistic. A medicine is a success if it cures some people, leaves some people somewhere from more healthy to less healthy and outright kills some people. Granted, it must generally do far more good than harm, but for those people who were killed by it (or suffered other severe injuries, paralyzation etc.) that did far more damage than good. You don't know how that medicine will apply to you. You might be one of those who are affected bad by it. Therefore to give specific advice in a general situation is not a good idea in my opinion and much more specifics must be known before one can make a specific advice. Also there are many, many specifics about the world and our bodies that we don't know of and have little understanding of the complex interplay of forces, matters and energies that affects during the day with far most of them completely unconsciously and of which we have no awareness of. Now then, in the face of this great uncertainty, some specifics must be made and some decisions and alternatives chosen and the consequences we must live with. In general though, I would probably recommend those two quotes as an outline for health in some ways (also you can take a look here, if you're looking for more of the same kind: http://www.quotegarden.com/health.html) and also KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid), be careful and have humility about your own shortcomings and straight about what you don't know (leading you to also seek advice from other people) and make your own decisions as far as it is possible. That would probably lead you in a happier and healthier direction. Maybe. All the things that are found out in a science lab aren't very applicable to your specific situation (compare a guy in America highly overweight with a starving child in Africa, or a person who never does sport and lives a pretty sedentary life vs a top-athlete doing many hours of hard and soft exercise every week). Health and exercise advice for this people would be very different. Maybe there are other problems. People are made up of so many things, motivations, life situations and where you are in your life (young and adventorous, settling down and wanting safety), psychological things, social things, financial situations affecting things, work demands and so on. There many things in which it would be rather hard to make a specific answer which you would actually know would do any good. Life is not that hard and it doesn't require so much to have health and vitality. You must just treat yourself with love and hopefully, the developments will garner themselves to your advantage. Maybe there are sicknesses that come into play that must be taken in consideration and adapted to. Again, great uncertainty.

    If you want to train your arms, then get down on all four and do push ups. Strike out into the air. Go out and lift stuff/throw stuff. You can do one arm/one leg push-ups etc. Push yourself hard enough up to get lift from the ground. Find something outside you can hang in and do lift-ups (tree, pole etc.). Again, you can vary weight by doing one arm lift-ups if possible at some point.

    It's natural to burn fat (stored energy) and gain muscle mass (protein mainly turned into muscle as I have understood it together with other things) when you use muscle you haven't used as much and burn energy that you have not digested recently, ie. is used to be spending. Those who do a lot of exercise probably also eat a lot. You can be slender though if you don't do a lot of exercise aswell, you must just not eat so much energy rich foods. There's no magic foods and you don't need something from TV-shop. If you're gaining a lot of muscle fast, you're probably going to be wanting to eat protein and fat, I would say honestly. If you're burning a lot of calories and doing long exercises that tear and wear a lot of energy, then you're gonna be wanting lots of carbohydrates (the slow kind that stays in your body for some time) but also suger (shorter carbohydrates) to refresh your brain and keep your blood sugar high enough to function and keep you alert still (think runners, rowing, cycling etc. where you are just burning and burning energy without necessarily pushing your muscles to their maximum expenditure of power).

  18. #18
    Banned Zildjian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    Wow, there's a lot of misinformation here. OP, I recommend going to another site that specializes in this sort of thing because you are getting tons of wrong info here.

    First of all, it's been proven your body can only absorb around 30-40 grams of protein in a sitting. Secondly, the notion of eating a gram of protein per pound of weight is wrong it's more like .60 give or take. Yes, you do need protein but not as much as people are suggesting. Also, you can lose weight and gain mass. Yes, intermittent fasting can be good if you do it right. No you can't lose weight at specific spots, you lose it across your entire body and losing it in the belly is the hardest. Don't listen to the above poster talking about eating 4k+ calories. That's a common myth saying that you need to eat big to gain big. That's how you get fat. Yes, your arms will be bigger because you are fatter than you were before not because it's muscle.

    But yeah, go someplace besides MMO-Champ for this info, you'll get a lot of bad info here.
    You're the one that is wrong my friend.

    It hasn't been proven that your body can only absorb 30-40g of protein in a sitting. Please provide me with a reliable source.

    Hardest to lose around the belly? Bullshit. It's all down to genes. Everyone is different. I for example lost all my weight of the belly first. I found the love handles / bum the hardest.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zildjian View Post
    You're the one that is wrong my friend.

    It hasn't been proven that your body can only absorb 30-40g of protein in a sitting. Please provide me with a reliable source.

    Hardest to lose around the belly? Bullshit. It's all down to genes. Everyone is different. I for example lost all my weight of the belly first. I found the love handles / bum the hardest.
    Well technically since you cannot target where you burn fat it is not easier or harder to burn fat from any one place but for most people losing fat around their stomach takes the longest. But either way, that's not the point.

    In regards to your other question, a quick google search.
    For instance, one of the fastest-absorbing protein sources is whey. According to researcher Helen Kollia, whey protein is absorbed at a rate of 8 g to 10 g per hour, so it would take about three hours to absorb a 30 g whey protein shake. However, she notes that whey protein passes through the intestinal tract in about 1.5 hours, so in this case, 15 g of whey at once is the ideal amount to consume for maximum absorption. Consuming more than this amount in one sitting would simply get excreted from the body.
    Livestrong article: http://www.livestrong.com/article/47...b-at-one-time/

    Source article: http://www.precisionnutrition.com/rr-whey-too-much

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    Well technically since you cannot target where you burn fat it is not easier or harder to burn fat from any one place but for most people losing fat around their stomach takes the longest. But either way, that's not the point.

    In regards to your other question, a quick google search.

    Livestrong article: http://www.livestrong.com/article/47...b-at-one-time/

    Source article: http://www.precisionnutrition.com/rr-whey-too-much
    Those articles only address protein from wpc in viscous form, which is probably one of the fastest absorbing protein outside of their hydrolysed versions. If the protein you're ingesting comes from steak eaten with lots of veggies, some fat sources etc then...

    Edit:

    I'm not gonna pretend like I'm a smart guy or a nutritional expert, but the "issue" of the theoretical maximum amount of protein you can eat per meal have been bothering me for years. I hated eating so frequently and much prefered just having 2-3 larger meals per day but I just toughed it out for nearly 10 years as that's what those bodybuilding mags back in the day told us to do if we ever hope to be huge and ripped.

    I've read works and consulted through forums or private coachings from countless experts (Lyle McD, Shelby Starnes, Dr Eric Serrano, Alan Aragon, Dr Layne Norton, Will Brink, John Meadows, Jamie Hale, Dr John Berardi and much more) and despite them disagreeing on some minor details, at the very least they agreed that the belief that you should only eat 30g of protein per meal is horse shit. Provided that you're healthy-ish and your definition of a meal is not pure whey + sugar only.

    I'm very grateful to Martin Berkhan for his work in debunking the "you have to eat 6-8 times spread throughout the whole day or your muscles will shrink and you will be fat as hell" myth. I've never felt so liberated haha.

    OT:

    Mate, you're gonna have various differing opinions no matter where you ask. There's an infinite number of ways to skin a cat, but the fundamentals will always remain true, educate yourself about the macronutrients and their roles etc. Set up a good eating habit and nail the idea into your head that this isn't a diet, this is a lifestyle change if you really want to be successful. If you have some spare money, this is IMO the best resource for nutrition a beginner or even an intermediate can get, it's a life ivestment really:

    http://www.precisionnutrition.com/books
    Last edited by Healarious; 2013-04-13 at 02:01 PM.

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