View Poll Results: Do you want a "number squish" to happen?

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  • Yes, I want numbers reduced.

    337 57.80%
  • No, I want numbers to keep getting bigger.

    154 26.42%
  • I don't care either way.

    92 15.78%
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  1. #181
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayuya View Post
    yes, I want a numbers squish and i want a Gold squish. I'll never understand why MMO Devs give in and up the ante on gold dropped from mobs just to please people who do not understand the need to keep numbers down.

    Beyond that I remember vanilla my priest wanting to reach 7,000 health barrier.
    They already done the gold squish. Mobs in Mists currently drop about as much, if not less, as mobs in Cata (In terms of farming gold, you actually got more gold from cata mobs then from Mists mobs, and counting in vendor trash, more from Wrath mobs then Mists mobs)
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  2. #182
    I think there's no need, I want my characters to keep getting stronger. Nothing really changes while numbers keep getting bigger there are only more zeros.
    Also, I dont really think item squish is big problem solver. Now after 4 expansions an item squish at best would bring us to a level of numbers between BC and WotLK. So when next expansion is released we'll be back to cata numbers.
    Another thing is, yes, it's quite easy to reduce all ilvls and stats with it. But will it be easy to balance mobs and bosses accordingly? If it's something hard and time consuming I'd rather they don't start at all.
    And now that player character hps approaching to millions and boss hps approaching to billions it's even less of a problem. You just put an M and a B next to numbers.

  3. #183
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    I am really amazed at how some people consider the squish a threat to soloing. Amazing. They actually think it will take away their power. The essence of the squish is that all numbers get divided by the same coefficient. Both your damage and boss' health. You'll need the same number of hits to kill it. Personally, I just turn off display of all numbers in game - red bars and percentages are more than enough for display purposes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
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    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  4. #184
    I was disappointed when the squish was cancelled for MoP. I fully support a squish.
    I find it ludicrous that there is a 'K' in my health bar.

  5. #185
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b4dcrc View Post
    So fucking well said. I felt so disappointed after i had to ditch raid gear for some green / blue quest garbage after cleaning up rabbit shit and washing yak's *eyesroll* Yeah raid gear and gladi gear should be better than the stuff you get next xpac for some trivial bs you do while questing, because you did heroic deeds to get it in the last xpac then when you start pvping and raiding, heroics again at 95 then you can exchange the gear again because you are accomplishing something. I'm totally fine with that.
    They actually did that twice, and what happened is that players went into the newest raids wearing most of thier previous-expansion end gear, simply because there wasn't much power difference between the lvl 70 top end raid gear and the lvl 80 heroic gear, or lvl 60 top end raid gear and lvl 70 heroic gear (Thunderfury, for instance, was SO good for tanks during the start of TBC that there wasn't a single tanking weapon that could replace it. I think it was the first weapon to recieve a formula to it that made it proc less as one leveled up). So you have lvl 70s going into Naxx with mostly 140ilvl gear, with maybe a good piece of ilvl 200 gear/trinkets here and there from the heroics. And they pretty much full cleared it withing a few days, wearing the same lvl 70 gear. Or lvl 60s with mostly naxx pieces going into Kara and clearing most of it.

    Blizz did not like that, so they decided to make it to where the best raid gear you would get was replaced while leveling, and def replaced in heroics. It worked with a single exception- TG fury warriors could wield Shadowmourne in the off-hand until they got a 359 ilvl piece. We also had the same thing going from 85-90, and it also worked relatively well, with most pieces being replaced by 88 at the latest.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  6. #186
    how are people so stupid? the item squish effects EVERYTHING so your stupid argument about not being able to solo old content is completely invalid. Read about things before you ignorantly spout garbage

  7. #187
    I would add an aura for the whole next continent (Kil'jaeden is draining power from the whole world...), and leave the old content the way it is now

    EDIT: i don't want to see level 1 deal 0.002 hits

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    I am really amazed at how some people consider the squish a threat to soloing. Amazing. They actually think it will take away their power. The essence of the squish is that all numbers get divided by the same coefficient. Both your damage and boss' health. You'll need the same number of hits to kill it. Personally, I just turn off display of all numbers in game - red bars and percentages are more than enough for display purposes.
    I respectfully disageree, there are many situations in which numbers are extremely useful. Knowing how hard special abilities of a boss hit for vs. how much HP you have while tanking in order to make the call to use a cd or not (same applies to AoE hits in any role) / Making the call to stop dps on a target to let DoT's finish it off, Knowing how badly someone needs another heal (if you're just healing the lowest targets all the time, you're doing it wrong), making the call what target to dps when several options are available (Horridon vs Warlord, when they have different hp %'s, different Max HP, and one of them has a damage modifier... gl making that call accurately without numbers showing

    I could go on, but I guess I made my point. Numbers are useful. But regarding the number squish, it really doesn't matter to me whether i'm doing 1, 1000, or 1,000,000,000 dps.

  9. #189
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    I am really amazed at how some people consider the squish a threat to soloing. Amazing. They actually think it will take away their power. The essence of the squish is that all numbers get divided by the same coefficient. Both your damage and boss' health. You'll need the same number of hits to kill it. Personally, I just turn off display of all numbers in game - red bars and percentages are more than enough for display purposes.
    Thats actually not the case at all, as has been stated previously. The "ilvl squish" would reduce the relative power increase between levels greatly- a lvl 60 in good gear would only be, say, 10% less poweful then a lvl 70 in poor gear, with the 70 being 10% less powerful then the 80 in poor gear, ect, with a sudden steep rise upon hitting the max lvl and getting raiding gear (In terms, a lvl 85 in good gear would be about 20% less powerful then a lvl 90 in poor gear, but a lvl 90 in good gear would suddenly be 100% more powerful then the 85 in good gear, to keep current content from being obsolete). Because of that, in the ilvl squish, if they tuned it around, say, 40 lvl 60s doing Rag in decent gear, you would need about 30 lvl 70s in decent gear, and around 20 lvl 80s in decent gear to down MC rag, a far cry from 80s being able to solo it back during Wrath.

    Finally, let me direct you to http://www.wowhead.com/npc=4699#comments. This was after the Cata changes to the world- a simple scorpion mob that one had to collect 10 venom sacks from had around 13k health, more health then lvl 80 mobs. For a number players, this actually made it unkillable simply because they would either A) Die from lack of healing before they could kill it (warriors, mages, rogues), or B) run oom before they could kill it (Priests, Druids, Shamans, Paladins). It wasn't changed for a few months.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Catasylah View Post
    how are people so stupid? the item squish effects EVERYTHING so your stupid argument about not being able to solo old content is completely invalid. Read about things before you ignorantly spout garbage
    No we probably won't be able to solo old content as easily. Let me tell you with an example of potential numbers:
    After squish most likely 1-60 range won't change so bosses here won't change. 60-70 will be squished and be very close to lvl 60. So BC raids will be mostly like vanilla raids. 70-80 will be pulled down too about 68-69 levels. So WotLK bosses will be slightly less powerful than current BC bosses but still powerful. 80-85 will be porbably about BC level or a bit harder. And Mists numbers will be about current 76-77 numbers. If item squish happens in the end of this expansion You'll be about 76-77, or at most 80 level numbers and WotLK bosses will be like current BC bosses. Sure it's soloable by some people but I dont think it will be as easy.

  11. #191
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    It definitely should happen. I honestly think people who want bigger numbers arent worth listening. In case i offended anyone, here let me make up for it
    99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

  12. #192
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    I don't mind large numbers per se, but I could see them implementing a different way of presenting said numbers. Like instead of "200,000,000 way of the exploding walrus crit" it says 200M.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Catasylah View Post
    how are people so stupid? the item squish effects EVERYTHING so your stupid argument about not being able to solo old content is completely invalid. Read about things before you ignorantly spout garbage
    A number crunch will affect soloing even if everything is the same relative power. It's already been explained why in this thread, if you can't grasp it then that's not really our problem... but it doesn't make people stupid. If anything it makes you stupid for calling people stupid on something you aren't fully understanding.

    You remind me of people that stay with the same door on game shows, after the 3rd door is revealed and the prize isn't behind it... making their chance to win 33% instead of 66%. Majority of people can't grasp this concept, and it seems many people can't grasp why a flat number crush would affect soloing. It's not rocket science.
    Last edited by tyrindor; 2013-04-04 at 07:46 AM.

  14. #194
    Stood in the Fire Divine Path's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrindor View Post
    A number crunch will affect soloing even if everything is the same relative power.
    It's a drawback for sure, but the number crunch will have a positive effect on the overall game experience. I think the trade off is worth it.

    Remember, older content was not designed or intended for higher levels to solo it in later expansions.
    "Come, Stormrage, and I will show you what happens to those that betray the lord of the Legion!" — Mannoroth.

  15. #195
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    Yes i want a number squish, i feel like things are starting to get out of hand right now and it will only get worse in later patches of mists.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    Sorry but 250000 is easier to read than 3,147.

    It's also easier to balance a game with big numbers than small numbers.
    This statement is erroneous. It's simply not true. It might seem like the case in raw DPS output, but things like rating, diminishing returns and item-to-level scaling certainly prove otherwise. Damage output is simply completely irrelevant; as long as damage-per-minute is roughly the same, it's balanced. It doesn't matter if it's 10 or 10K.
    Also: 250.000 is mot easier to read than 3.147. It's easier to translate to a vocal component (250K is easier to SAY). but 3,147 is easier for the brain to COMPUTE. There is quite a large difference in the way the human brain translates something to a vocalization and the way it computes an artifact. If you're not used to computing, it might be easier to 'forget' about the extra zeroes and treat it as '25' for the time being, adding extra zeroes later on, but that takes time. Once you've gotten more used to computation, you'll find out that not taking that step is much, much faster and more efficient.
    You also do not need to translate a computational unit to a vocal one unless you're talking about it.

  17. #197
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Path View Post
    It's a drawback for sure, but the number crunch will have a positive effect on the overall game experience. I think the trade off is worth it.

    Remember, older content was not designed or intended for higher levels to solo it in later expansions.
    Still doesn't change the fact that a squish is still a temporary solution and wont fix anything, if they do it with the next expansion for example, by expansion 9-10 they'd have to do it again.
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  18. #198
    High Overlord Neponc's Avatar
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    Yes I want it! I'm actually kind of excited to get back to some smaller numbers.
    Research does not consist of eating some lead based paint, checking what people are saying on the forums and then pretending like you know what you are talking about.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Inside View Post
    Still doesn't change the fact that a squish is still a temporary solution and wont fix anything, if they do it with the next expansion for example, by expansion 9-10 they'd have to do it again.
    This is certainly true, if they are only going to squish one thing, and consequences be damned.
    The system doesn't really support what it does now, and sticks together with band-aid fixes (stat rating and DR are essentially band-aid fixes), and only changing item level without accommodating for the rest won't change a thing in the longer scheme.

    So if we want a number squish, we shouldn't ask for that.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by ipoststuff View Post
    It definitely should happen. I honestly think people who want bigger numbers arent worth listening. In case i offended anyone, here let me make up for it
    99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
    Wow, what a compelling argument!

    I'll take this reasoning one further and proclaim that the "Big numbers make my brain hurt!"-people are full of it and as such not worth listening to, see how that works now? (Or do i need to use fewer words? :P )

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