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  1. #21
    We noticed that the damage between being ~10yards or ~30yards from the explosion is basicly the same so you don't really need to run that far from it so we just stacked up on the melee for the whole fight and moved as a group when the acid bombs spawned.

    * Green > Red > Green > Red > Green > Red > Green

    * We run with a holy pala and a disc priest (me) as our healingsetup and have our spriest go disc whenever 3 heals are needed (granted having 2 disc makes the fight ALOT easier with this tactic)

    * Cinder were dropped in front of the group (between the heads) if a melee got them and behind the group whenever a ranged/healer got it so we always had a clear path to run between the red and green head.

    * Bloodlust popped during the last 5-10 second of the 5th rampage so we could burn down the 6th head fast and then rotate healing cd's for the last rampage and head.

    * Our elemental shaman kept Healing Rain up on the raid as often as possible to help with the healing (along with conductivity)

    * The last head gets really chaotic with this tactic but I rather have ALOT to heal then to bother with the frostbeams :P

    Here is a picture of how we position ourselfs on the fight (hooray for imagequality)


    Our raidsetup is this:

    Tanks:
    Blood DK
    Protection Paladin

    Heals:
    Holy Paladin
    Disc Priest

    DPS:
    Elemental Shaman
    Assassination Rogue
    Survival Hunter
    Frost DK
    Destruction Warlock
    Shadow Priest (disc OS)
    Congratz Jesus the Solar Messiah, Ynf Ynf!
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  2. #22
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    Setup you had on the first try seemed much better than a try halfway where it seemed like you were 9manning it, and the last try where you had some rogue in that did nothing for DPS...

    If you'd just ignore the blues, and have everyone running away from poisonbombs (remember, the further away, the less damage you take, if you die due to that damage, your raid is being lazy and doesn't move enough), as well as killing every head before 4 breaths happen, you should be just fine. If you at that point die to poison bombs, either your guys don't run away far enough, or your healers aren't good enough. If you die during rampages, your healers and DPS need to coordinate raidwalls better or the healers arent good enough. If you're getting to a fourth breath on any head (including the first, the pre-pot and trinketprocs make up for not having the rampage-time), your DPS simply are not good enough. If the DPS is one of the big issues, ignoring blue definitely improves the DPS, as you need to run out of range of the boss when kiting the blue beam, which is not going to help you.

    If the healers are having issues with healing the red debuffs: You never want to not kill the red head when it is up, as the tank damage done by this breath is rather massive, it is always the number 1 kill priority. The only thing you will kill blue instead of, is instead of the green, which would only decrease the poison bomb damage, which your raid could probably simply move further away from. So if fire damage is the reason of wipes, no need to suddenly start killing blue, this will not help your healers.

    If you really hate the poison damage so much, you could try it like this. Instead of Poison-Fire-Poison-Fire-Poison-Fire-Last, you could go Poison-Fire-Frost-Fire-Poison-Fire-Last, which would effectively reduce the amount of poison bombs thrown around by 1 during the last part, however you will suddenly have the entire room full of frost. (and let's be honest, you're not going to remove the frost shit with the fire debuff, that shit hurts too much to have people running around with it.)

    Also a thing to note, with recent nerfs it should even be possible to get 2 instead of 3 breaths on everything (or perhaps not on the first), but this should not be mandatory for your raid to survive it: When my guild killed it pre-nerf, it was with sometimes even 4 breaths, and just a hell of a lot of raidwall and external cooldown usage. Just meaning to say, when you die from getting consistent 3-breaths-per-head, it's too bad that the DPS can't do better, but the healers are simply at fault if they can't keep that healing up. (unless people stand at the edge of poison bombs (still taking near-full damage) of course, or place fire in shit places, or get hit by breaths randomly, which I spotted in some wipes I looked at at random).
    Ex-GM and Raidleader of the MoX Purple Kittens Raidteam on Twisting Nether (formerly Grim Batol), RIP, Winter 2010 - Spring 2013.
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  3. #23
    Mechagnome ZaneBusby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    WOAH

    No. stop. please?

    GRGR strat is NOT a cheese strat for your healers to carry you. It is an EASY strat that is NOT CHALLENGING to heal at all. Adding even one blue into the mix makes it considerably harder to manage. We killed it pre-nerf with blues and it was really quite difficult. Post-nerf GRGR? One of the easiest fights in the instance to heal. Look at our overhealing - we were spamming heals like crazy trying to steal HPS from each other because there was absolutely no danger. Even if we overdid it and went oom (which none of us did) we could have called for a tranq. I just cant stress enough how easy it is to do GRGR, and unless there is some very specific thing you're struggling with, there's no good reason to do it any other way.

    umm flash heal? emergency CDs for cinders? are you guys doing heroic or something?

    If someone has cinders and cant be dispelled (is moving slowly out of melee, dispel is on CD whatevz), we just like.. heal them? with umm holy light (for you non-paladins that's our cheapest and weakest heal). You'll never have issues being out of range to dispel if you don't kill blue, which is yet another reason why leaving blue alive is the best strategy.

    edit: for people who will inevitably armory me and say 'oh but you're geared that's why it worked'- I was 494 when we first killed it.

    You are in a guild that cleared 10/16H pre-nerf, and are currently 1/13H, (amongst the top 1500 guilds in the western world), comparing yourself to a guild that cleared 4/16H pre-nerf, and are currently 4/12N, struggling with the 5th boss, amongst the top 7500 guilds in the western world. Also, you were actually in iLvl 501.13 gear when you downed Magaera, and the average iLvl of your entire raid was 504.13, according to wowprogress. Stop trying to be full of yourself.

    Your total raid DPS was 687808 on your very first kill, whereas on Quackpack's best attempt, his total raid DPS was 619806.
    On those same attempts, your total raid HPS was 321691, whereas Quackpack's total raid HPS was 249359. That's without overhealing.
    Taking overhealing into consideration, your raid HPS was 531322 with 39.5% overhealing, whereas Quackpack's raid HPS was 316152 with 21.1% overhealing.

    In summary: Your raid group are far more experienced, your raid group pumps out a fuckload more numbers than Quackpack's raid, and you're attempting to compare apples to oranges. Get your head out of your ass and try and put things in proper perspective.

    Edit: Adjusted some numbers.

    (Source for your item levels and western world ranking)
    (Source for your raid DPS/HPS)
    (Source for Quackpack's raid DPS/HPS)
    Last edited by ZaneBusby; 2013-04-04 at 02:45 AM.
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  4. #24
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post

    edit: for people who will inevitably armory me and say 'oh but you're geared that's why it worked'- I was 494 when we first killed it.
    Hey Dennis,

    I've checked your log and we're a whopping 19 item level on average behind, just looking at the healing team.

    I don't question your skill since you did it in 494s, but I wouldn't call it "easy" in ~500 gear

  5. #25
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    If your dps is fine, kill it with 4 healers ( no jokes). We had 2 Disc, hpala and rDruid, killed with this "setup" on 2nd pull. Use Heroism on 7th head, saves on 8th.

    PS: as i remember we didnt kill the Blue head.
    Last edited by bagosham; 2013-04-03 at 12:56 PM.

  6. #26
    My raid only had one dps above 100k, most around 80k-90k and GRGRGRGR wasn't working for us either. We switched to a BRBRGRB and killed it pretty fast. Heroism on the 6th head at about 50% so we're able to use some of the hero on the last rampage then just play it safe.

    This strat cut down on the raid damage, and tank damage by a lot, but does make the fight last longer, and you have to deal with a

  7. #27
    too easy boss whit green-red-green-red-blue-red-green

  8. #28
    In theory bloodlusting for the 7th head is the way to go.

    In practice what got us our kill was bloodlusting at the start of the rampage when the 6th head comes up. Face it, most people working towards a first kill die on the 6th head. Make that one quicker and don't lose people on the 6th and just hang in there for the 7th. Losing people on the 6th is a disaster. It's not ideal on the 7th but assuming the head is below 80% at the end of the rampage you can still eke out a kill.

    I guess the proviso to this is that we are 2 prot palas and the hammer talent along with devotion aura really makes the rampages a lot less scary.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Quackpack View Post
    Hey Dennis,

    I've checked your log and we're a whopping 19 item level on average behind, just looking at the healing team.

    I don't question your skill since you did it in 494s, but I wouldn't call it "easy" in ~500 gear
    Here's the important stuff you need to know. The fight is very doable with your group's dps and healing. My guild's first kill had our dps all in the ~95k range. You have several above that so your damage is definitely enough. Healing, you're also fine in terms of numbers but that is also where your problem is.

    Your healers are all spiking quite high on early rampages, but then fading off after the 5th or 6th head. That generally means that they're all pushing hard when they have full mana, but burning through it too fast and ending up with nothing in the tank for later in the fight, which doesn't work on a ramp-up style fight like this. That's a healing style from council where the damage is front-end heavy.

    Here's what you can do
    - if you aren't already, assign a single healer to do dispels so there's no extra mana being wasted on those. Until the 5th head dies, always try to get them out of the group. After head 5 drops, the cinders will be coming too fast along wtih poison bombs. At this point, cinders should be dispelled immediately by any healer who can and players need to move away from the fires.
    - Figure out an order for healing cooldowns for rampage. Only the healer with cd's active should be pushing healing hard, especially in early rampages. The other 2 healers should just help out slightly if players dip low rather than spending a lot of mana on what will become overhealing. (As an example, we just have our disc priest atone through rampage unless it is his turn to spirit shell or throw out PW:barrier.
    - Get as much as you can out of mana return abilities. Innervates from your feral druid, hymn of hope, etc.
    - During rampage, healing is much easier because everyone is stacked together. Instead of using defensive cd's there, use them to reduce damage from poison bombs during the 5th and 6th heads. This will reduce the chances of a poison bomb landing and getting someone low right before a cinders comes out to kill them.

  10. #30
    From what im getting out of the logs your rougue beeing dead 50% of the time or doing nothing. Both tanks having very low uptime on shieldblock.

    if you have healing probs just go blue red blue red blue red, its very easy. i heard some guild dont have any luck with this stat others like ours had alot of probs with green.

    all classes with healing affects where you can still do dmg, like vampiric embrance, NV from druids are really strong here, as are disc priest or dks with AMS.

    and your rougue needs to man up a bit cause from what if seen he does so little dmg almost every try. and getting hit by breaths alot too.

    and your healers seem to have probs with the green explosion try not killing green and handling the blue beam, cause the dmg is almost completely avoidable.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurzior View Post
    Here's the important stuff you need to know. The fight is very doable with your group's dps and healing. My guild's first kill had our dps all in the ~95k range. You have several above that so your damage is definitely enough. Healing, you're also fine in terms of numbers but that is also where your problem is.

    Your healers are all spiking quite high on early rampages, but then fading off after the 5th or 6th head. That generally means that they're all pushing hard when they have full mana, but burning through it too fast and ending up with nothing in the tank for later in the fight, which doesn't work on a ramp-up style fight like this. That's a healing style from council where the damage is front-end heavy.

    Here's what you can do
    - if you aren't already, assign a single healer to do dispels so there's no extra mana being wasted on those. Until the 5th head dies, always try to get them out of the group. After head 5 drops, the cinders will be coming too fast along wtih poison bombs. At this point, cinders should be dispelled immediately by any healer who can and players need to move away from the fires.
    - Figure out an order for healing cooldowns for rampage. Only the healer with cd's active should be pushing healing hard, especially in early rampages. The other 2 healers should just help out slightly if players dip low rather than spending a lot of mana on what will become overhealing. (As an example, we just have our disc priest atone through rampage unless it is his turn to spirit shell or throw out PW:barrier.
    - Get as much as you can out of mana return abilities. Innervates from your feral druid, hymn of hope, etc.
    - During rampage, healing is much easier because everyone is stacked together. Instead of using defensive cd's there, use them to reduce damage from poison bombs during the 5th and 6th heads. This will reduce the chances of a poison bomb landing and getting someone low right before a cinders comes out to kill them.
    I was disc/shadow on this logs. Yeah the nr overall seams okey so we should be able to do it, we only need to order the cd's and get rid of the overhealing at the first 4 rampage's.
    But as u can see we dont have mutch support off heals with that setup, but got more then enough defensive cd's to take it down.
    We had the hpala on dispell duty, resto on backup. I was smiting between rampage and in them at the first 4atleast, using power word barrier on the first or 2nd since it will be back for later. I did however use Spirit shell at every rampage, since nothing to smite during a while there, cant be wrong i feel since thats not whats drains my mana, im smite neutral, its only the PoM spamming at the end getting me down, but thats cause we are taking to mutch dmg from poison since we got to few cd's ready then.

  12. #32
    I have one general tip that seemed to help us out a lot. Players need to remember that mana to a healer is cumulative. That means that while the damage isn't that heavy for the first few heads, that doesn't mean it's OK to take extra damage just because you're not going to die. Players can make the end of the fight exponentially easier if they just perform the mechanics better in the beginning, thus saving healers mana.

    Silly things that can help... I play a shadow priest in my raid group, and Vampiric Embrace is a stupid powerful raid healing CD. I actually use this during the first rampage and healers don't have to do anything at all. Vamp is then up again to use later. We also have an ele shammy in the group that casts Ascendance and Ancestral **whatever it's called** to do the same during the 2nd and 6th. Again, healers are spending almost NO mana during the first two rampages. This allows then to save mana CD's for later in the fight, resulting in more mana for the real crunch at the end.

    Players can also use self heals / lock candy / mitigation throughout the whole fight which saves healer mana.

    To reiterate, a healer can only regen a set amount of mana during a fight, depending on their class and gear. You want to do whatever you can to limit the amound of healing they need to do at all times. Just because something isn't going to be dangerous doesn't mean it's OK damage to take.

  13. #33

  14. #34
    It's pretty odd but we got this in the second week with 2 tries (25m) is 25 significantly easier or something? We did a straight right to left (green, blue, red I think?) setup too and had no issue. Most ppl are slightly over 500 in gear tho so I guess it makes the difference? We blow through this with green, red, blue repeat now.
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