Sinister Primal Diamond for FIRE

[royals]

I don't understand what the discussion here is anymore. No it isn't a 50k dps increase, and it is kind of lame when you can't get it in your opener. But you cannot say it barely does anything. ~20% reported uptime on bosses of a 30% haste increase is an average of a 6% flat increase in haste. That is a LOT. That is like getting to wear frost armor and molten armor at the same time. I would say that if you don't notice a difference remember that because it is a crit based spec, you will get varying results wether you have the meta or not. Fire parses do swing pretty vastly one way or another. That being said, after I got my Sinister diamond I noticed my parses swinging upward very noticably.

---------- Post added 2013-05-05 at 09:32 AM ----------

You quoted my comment to begin with that had absolutely nothing to do with this thread in general, but why could jin'rohk have higher uptime on the meta gem than council..

But ye am kinda done with this discussion as I don't really cba with the endless bickering..

If you are talking reg modes then Jin'Rokh will have higher uptime do to the quickness of the fight and the amount of time that lust is up over the whole fight. Because of the higher percentage of hasted time, the higher chance you have to have the meta procced and the higher % of uptime you have for that specific boss fight.

[spaace]

20% uptime, versus other classes/specs with 50%. That is the discussion.

[Vakna]

20% uptime, versus other classes/specs with 50%. That is the discussion.

Don't forget that it's 20% haste for a spec that couldn't care less about haste outside of Combustion, versus 50% uptime for a spec that scales incredibly well with haste and also has the capacity to extend that uptime artificially through DoT's.

Using these gems to balance specs (and doing a piss poor job of it at the same time) is really taking away the legendary feel.

[spaace]

Care less about hate outside of Combustion?

More haste = more casts = more chances at hot streak.. etc.

[mrgreenthump]

Care less about hate outside of Combustion?

More haste = more casts = more chances at hot streak.. etc.

Not only that, but faster cast equals directly to more dps unless you are limited by mana or some other cap, which fire ain't and increases RPPM mechanic based chances. Not that it really matters, people still seem to want to argue abt it, cause they are never wrong.

[spaace]

Logs from last night came up...
(Looking at only KILLS)

H Jin'Rok [Tempus Repit 4 40.2 14.8 %] TTK; 4:31
H Horridon [Tempus Repit 10 87.0 12.1 %] TTK; 11:57
N Council [Tempus Repit 5 48.6 15.5 %] TTK; 5:12
N Torotos [Tempus Repit 6 58.9 22.2 %] TTK; 4:23

--Buff---------Amount---Uptime-----
Tempus Repit 25 234.6 [14.9 %]



all I have to say is, that i am not impressed with this meta..

It's only nice when everything + meta + bloodlust lines up.. then you get a MONSTER combustion...

But.. RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG..... Just what fire needs.. more RNG.. And low ass fucking percentages.

[Vakna]

Care less about hate outside of Combustion?

More haste = more casts = more chances at hot streak.. etc.

In relation to other stats I mean, obviously haste has a value to fire mages, but when you compare that value against haste's value for say an aff lock who gets more than double our uptime, it pales in comparison. If anything, fire should have the 50% uptime and aff the 20% (or less). And the specs that are getting the insane benefit out of the meta weren't exactly bottom of the charts to begin with either.

[Tiga]

Frost's high uptime may be justified because of the constant haste-capping, which diminishes the value of all that haste. If Blizzard is using the Tempus Repit uptime as a way to balance specs/classes with high end gear, it doesn't seem like it's the right thing to do, nor the wrong thing done right either. Their logic may be that since they didn't nerf Fire's scaling with gear as much as they planned, they can keep it under control by making the meta gem underpowered. Similarly, if they figured frost wasn't scaling well enough with gear, they made the meta gem more powerful for frost because of that.

[Vakna]

Frost's high uptime may be justified because of the constant haste-capping, which diminishes the value of all that haste. If Blizzard is using the Tempus Repit uptime as a way to balance specs/classes with high end gear, it doesn't seem like it's the right thing to do, nor the wrong thing done right either. Their logic may be that since they didn't nerf Fire's scaling with gear as much as they planned, they can keep it under control by making the meta gem underpowered. Similarly, if they figured frost wasn't scaling well enough with gear, they made the meta gem more powerful for frost because of that.

I'm fairly sure they denied using it as a balancing tool though, and if they did they are doing a very bad job at "balance".

[Polarthief]

Frost's high uptime may be justified because of the constant haste-capping, which diminishes the value of all that haste. If Blizzard is using the Tempus Repit uptime as a way to balance specs/classes with high end gear, it doesn't seem like it's the right thing to do, nor the wrong thing done right either. Their logic may be that since they didn't nerf Fire's scaling with gear as much as they planned, they can keep it under control by making the meta gem underpowered. Similarly, if they figured frost wasn't scaling well enough with gear, they made the meta gem more powerful for frost because of that.

What I don't get is why not keep us at 1.00 and buff everyone else in comparison?

What other people get doesn't affect me, but when I'm below the average proccs, I have a problem with it. I don't give a fuck if Frost or Elemental is at 65% uptime, as long as I get my fair share of 20-30% uptime (based on RNG), I'm cool with it.

[Hauntedd]

How are people still bickering about this? The uptime is fine, and our dps is fine.. Stop bitching.

[Polarthief]

How are people still bickering about this? The uptime is fine, and our dps is fine.. Stop bitching.

DPS is not an issue, and the uptime is not "fine", it's mediocre. The issue is dangling a legendary in our face that's really fun for specific speccs and extremely lackluster and boring for others (such as Fire; not to mention how it adds another stupid layer of RNG on our already super-heavy RNG playstyle)

If I get SUPER lucky, my uptime is 20%, which I feel is what the MINIMUM should be. A lucky streak of proccs should be ~30%. My average uptime is usually around 10-15%, which doesn't at all feel "legendary" and makes me miss my old meta more because it was just pure consistent damage.

[Hauntedd]

My legendary feels legendary.. Right now I main a boomkin and a fire mage and no doubt its better on a boomkin with that 45% uptime.. but 15-20% is plenty for a mage and is a significant dps increase.

At the point when they "hotfixed" the co-efficients.. the fire mage uptime would be something to complain about... but its perfectly fine at its current coefficient. Find something else to complain about.

[Erolian]

My legendary feels legendary.. Right now I main a boomkin and a fire mage and no doubt its better on a boomkin with that 45% uptime.. but 15-20% is plenty for a mage and is a significant dps increase.

At the point when they "hotfixed" the co-efficients.. the fire mage uptime would be something to complain about... but its perfectly fine at its current coefficient. Find something else to complain about.

Agreed but this section of the forums is just some people's place to QQ. I use it for that also but for certain individuals they post a pretty monumental amount of QQ daily that you just learn to often times skip or ignore the posts entirely if you stick around here for awhile. Best to not even worry about it honestly.

[spaace]

With Lei-Shen's 100% crit trinket, and the 45% uptime for meta.. boomkins are probably the best example at "too much". BUT IT'S ALL FINE, according to blizzard...



I feel like this 15% uptime is a waste..

[Vaelkder]

I've now had this uber-fabulous-wonderful-exceptional-makemewanttogrin piece of drek for two weeks, and the up time has averaged out to be a whopping 12.76%. YES, before anyone jumps my bones about it, I have logged every single thing which I've done and looked at the Buffs, added all of the encounter times (this includes hours at the practice dummies) and divided by the number of times the silly thing has procced.

I am chucking the thing and putting back the Primal Diamond, as I know that the gains from it far outweigh anything which this utter failure from Blizzard can manage.

[Polarthief]

I've now had this uber-fabulous-wonderful-exceptional-makemewanttogrin piece of drek for two weeks, and the up time has averaged out to be a whopping 12.76%. YES, before anyone jumps my bones about it, I have logged every single thing which I've done and looked at the Buffs, added all of the encounter times (this includes hours at the practice dummies) and divided by the number of times the silly thing has procced.

I am chucking the thing and putting back the Primal Diamond, as I know that the gains from it far outweigh anything which this utter failure from Blizzard can manage.

And people say it's "fine".

[Tiorda]

Who really cares if the meta sucks. Fire is scaling so well in ToT it doesn't matter. On pretty much every fight you should be at minimum top 5 on the meters in a 25man, with RNG you can be far and away #1. If we had a 50% proc rate it would be even more of a joke.

[Polarthief]

Who really cares if the meta sucks. Fire is scaling so well in ToT it doesn't matter. On pretty much every fight you should be at minimum top 5 on the meters in a 25man, with RNG you can be far and away #1. If we had a 50% proc rate it would be even more of a joke.

No one's asking for 50, we just want out maximum to be 30ish, and not have our maximum at everyone else's bare minimum.

[Vaelkder]

Who really cares if the meta sucks. Fire is scaling so well in ToT it doesn't matter. On pretty much every fight you should be at minimum top 5 on the meters in a 25man, with RNG you can be far and away #1. If we had a 50% proc rate it would be even more of a joke.

I'd love to know what kind of 25-man raid group you happen to be in; something tells me that I would be, as you said, in the top five in each boss encounter. I, however, am in a guild where the average DPS of the top five people is 195K DPS, if not higher.

With Fire Spec being so heavily RNG-dependent, I personally don't stand a chance, what with Shadow Priests, Warlocks, Boomkins and Death Knights blowing the doors off everything in sight. I admit that I'm still quite new to Fire Spec, being asked by my Guild to change from Arcane (the only variety of Mage which I've played since my first day in WoW, ten months ago), so there are many nuances in playing Fire which I have yet to learn and to master.

The fact of the matter is that I had to slog my way through a lot of dailies, then wait and wait and wait, hoping against hope that the RNG deities might grace me with a Secret (it took over eight weeks, averaging eight bosses per week), before I finally was able to obtain this wonder of wonders and, lo and behold, it doesn't meet up to even the most conservative of promises.

So, after all the time and effort to obtain the Sinister Primal Diamond, my personal experience is that Blizzard dropped the ball so very badly that it had crashed through their already pothole-ridden basement of tragic screw ups.

For you to deride me, or anyone, for that matter, without anything in the least bit constructive or allowing the people who help others in these Forums the privilege of seeing your Class/Spec, is beyond the pale, and you need to not troll.

I'm here to learn, to be helped, to possibly help, and to be as positive as I can possibly be, even if it does appear that the Developers at Blizzard don't care anything about the people who are paying their salaries with their subscriptions. I'm finding that I am continuing in this frustration-laden, poorly thought out game, due to the fact that there are so very many incredibly helpful people who take the time to write constructive critiques, both of the game itself, and of the people who are asking to be helped.

I am not here to be ridiculed or cyber-bullied by someone who could very well be nothing more than a small-minded adolescent who enjoys getting his nerd rage on, knowing that he can get away with it because of the comparative anonymity of cyber space.